Player Watch #13 Clayton Oliver – UNPRECEDENTED 4 x B&F, 3 x AA, 2 x AFLCA Winner and Premiership Player

[mrmonkey]

Didn't know much about Toump when we drafted him, but I recall his highlights video was a bit meh but you just hope the recruiters know what they're doing. Didn't take long to write him off though - he looked terrified out there and was just coming from too far back to ever become a decent footballer. Can't remember what game it was but it was somewhere in his first handful he did that pants-filling, panicked handball to no one when he was being closed down - absolutely no composure or thought process involved, pure panic. It's something you'd be disappointed to see in an U14s game, never mind top tier football.

Thank gawd paul roos came in and we started to recruit competitors. Theres a reason why Sydney always make it to finals theu bring in guy's willing to compete. For too long we drafted squibs sure there were good wins here and there but we weren't ever going far with those player's. Sure now we may need to add outside players but at least we've built properly this time.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

Didn’t Roos draft Toump?

 

[blitznu]

Didn't know much about Toump when we drafted him, but I recall his highlights video was a bit meh but you just hope the recruiters know what they're doing. Didn't take long to write him off though - he looked terrified out there and was just coming from too far back to ever become a decent footballer. Can't remember what game it was but it was somewhere in his first handful he did that pants-filling, panicked handball to no one when he was being closed down - absolutely no composure or thought process involved, pure panic. It's something you'd be disappointed to see in an U14s game, never mind top tier football.

Didnt he play 2 years against men over in Adelaide b4 being drafted? i couldnt believe how piss poor he was after thinking sweet he'd go alright straight up. He was legit scared of contact. * me recruiters must of thought the same. * i am so glad he is gone no player frustrated me more than that campaigner

 

[Blackas87]

Didn’t Roos draft Toump?

Nope, was during Mark Neeld days.

Toumpas was selected in the 2012 draft. Mark Neeld was coach 2012-13.

Roos first draft was 2013 trading pick 2 for Tyson and pick 9 (Salem)

 

[Topkent]

That trade and draft period by us has potential to go down as one of the all-time great periods JUST for the GC trade.

Settle down. The Cats one of 2001 and 1999 and the hawks 04 are miles infront of ours.

2001 was Bartel Kelly Ablett Johnson, they also got Henry Playfair who was ok and Andrew Carazzo who had a good career at Carlton.

2015 we got Oliver who's a star
Weideman who's unknown
Hulett delisted and Mitch king.

Wagner and Michie in the rookie.
If anything Oliver saved us from a terrible terrible draft.

 

[schmuttt]

2014 was a better draft especially if ANB comes good. Petracca Brayshaw OMac ANB (I’ve written Stretch off).

 

[Topkent]

2014 was a better draft especially if ANB comes good. Petracca Brayshaw OMac ANB (I’ve written Stretch off).

Even that one still looks someway short of the 2001 draft.
3 of the 4 Geelong blokes would have legitimate claims to being in their updated team of the century.

 

[schmuttt]

Even that one still looks someway short of the 2001 draft.
3 of the 4 Geelong blokes would have legitimate claims to being in their updated team of the century.

Not arguing against the geelong draft more our 2015 draft

 

[Tempy Tiger]

Thank gawd paul roos came in and we started to recruit competitors. Theres a reason why Sydney always make it to finals theu bring in guy's willing to compete. For too long we drafted squibs sure there were good wins here and there but we weren't ever going far with those player's. Sure now we may need to add outside players but at least we've built properly this time.

I agree completely with this. Build your side from the contest out. Don’t blow high draft picks on outside players like Johnstone, Watts, Morton, Toumpas, Gysberts, Cook, even Scully.

 

[Topkent]

I agree completely with this. Build your side from the contest out. Don’t blow high draft picks on outside players like Johnstone, Watts, Morton, Toumpas, Gysberts, Cook, even Scully.

You take those players once you build the core. These guys don't build a winning side they help you capitalise on one.

 

[00Stinger]

2014 was a better draft especially if ANB comes good. Petracca Brayshaw OMac ANB (I’ve written Stretch off).

AVB aswell if he ever gets uninjured.

Stretch will come good imo. We need an outside runner like him too

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[knackers29]

AVB aswell if he ever gets uninjured.

Stretch will come good imo. We need an outside runner like him too

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I like AVB but it looks like he's destined to be broken until his career ends.

I don't think Stretch is never going to make it, he has all the downsides of his Dad (terrified), with none of the upside (fast and a beautiful Kick).

 

[Sando22]

Out of interest, did anyone else cry when Toumpas was announced as our #4 pick, or was it just me?

Worst feeling I've ever had as a Melbourne supporter.

Haha no way. I was rapt. Wines was way too similar to Viney!

 

[Tulip]

I was delighted when we picked Toumpas. He was so highly rated in his draft year, pretty much a consensus pick two behind Whitfield. Wines was thought to be a reach for pick seven. Thank goodness we rectified that by reaching for Oliver.

 

[ponsdale]

Who’s “we” - Mr Swans player sponsor?

(...and suddenly the Penny drops. Ponsdale realises why he hasn’t featured in the Melbourne POTY votes...)

I don't feature in the POTY considerations but I'm just not that prolific nor funny.

"We", on the Dees board, is always Melbourne. The Demons will always have my heart.

But I have lived in Sydney since 2001, so I started to follow the Swans in 2003 just so I could get to more games. The Dees have only played in Sydney a handful of times since I moved here - often in bloody Canberra. And as my wife is a big Swans supporter, I've adopted them as my second team.

But I always wear red and blue in Dees v Swans games.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

I was delighted when we picked Toumpas. He was so highly rated in his draft year, pretty much a consensus pick two behind Whitfield. Wines was thought to be a reach for pick seven. Thank goodness we rectified that by reaching for Oliver.

Are you taking the piss? Because this is actually pretty close to how I remember the reality of it referring to Toumpas. I do not remember any suggestion that Wines was a reach though, so that’s what makes me think you’re taking the piss...

 

[DeesFanTheMan]

Are you taking the piss? Because this is actually pretty close to how I remember the reality of it referring to Toumpas. I do not remember any suggestion that Wines was a reach though, so that’s what makes me think you’re taking the piss...

The thing I remember everyone talking about regarding Wines, was that he and Viney were best mates, at the time I was sure that translated to us picking him, but maybe it was the reason they didn't? who knows.

 

[Sylvia Saint]

I have a good memory of what happened.

Melbourne had pick 4 and for a long time had pencilled Wines in for that selection. There were some nervous times when the AFL were investigating the tanking saga, but we got to keep the pick.

GWS were expected to take Whitfield, Toumpas and Grundy until about three days out for the draft when all of a sudden they got funky with their picks and it leaked to the media.

This allowed the HUGELY RATED SA CAPTAIN and AA gun Jimmy Toumpas to 'fall into our laps' at pick 4. He was vaunted for his elite kicking skills and hard running, both of which were sorely lacking from an MFC squad bereft of talent.

Wines was always rated but he was probably overlooked for being a bit too vanilla and similar to Viney.

The rest is history but that's how I remember it.

 

[Toump Ass]

Yeah I don't follow the draft, I just couldn't understand why we'd skip a ready-made player in Wines (played every game in his first season, RS nom in Round 1, built like a bull) and go for a runt with injuries and brown knickers.

Not like we needed players or anything, given we'd won about 3 games in five years.

Anyway I miss Tompas

 

[stretcharmstrong]

Yeah I don't follow the draft, I just couldn't understand why we'd skip a ready-made player in Wines (played every game in his first season, RS nom in Round 1, built like a bull) and go for a runt with injuries and brown knickers.

Not like we needed players or anything, given we'd won about 3 games in five years.

Anyway I miss Tompas

Main reason there would’ve been the lack of a time machine, crystal ball or similar. Again, Toumpas was a consensus top 3 pick who (everybody thought) had traits we lacked. So taking him with pick 4 would’ve been an easy choice I guess, given we knew we were also getting a ready made contested ball gun in Viney?

 

[Tulip]

Are you taking the piss? Because this is actually pretty close to how I remember the reality of it referring to Toumpas. I do not remember any suggestion that Wines was a reach though, so that’s what makes me think you’re taking the piss...

Not taking the piss, but I did mean he was a reach at our pick four rather than Port's pick seven. There was never any discussion of him going top three to GWS.

Yeah I don't follow the draft, I just couldn't understand why we'd skip a ready-made player in Wines (played every game in his first season, RS nom in Round 1, built like a bull) and go for a runt with injuries and brown knickers.

Not like we needed players or anything, given we'd won about 3 games in five years.

Anyway I miss Tompas

This sounds like a 2013 reflection, rather than a 2012 one. Wines was a raging bull, but he was considered by draft watchers to be slightly inferior to Viney, who we were taking in the second round after a presumably dodgy deal with GWS. You have to remember that this was 2012, the final year before most people realised that its easier to teach a footballer to run than a runner to play football.

As has been said above, Whitfield/Toumpas/Grundy was thought to be the consensus top three until the week of the draft. IIRC we had two part-time recruiters whilst we waited for JT to finish his Collingwood contract that season, I think they were T.Viney and Tim Harrington. There was lots of talk about how Jack and Ollie used to play together in Echuca, but during a radio interview Jack was asked who the best player in the draft was and he said - you guessed it - Jimmy Toumpas.

There was never any indication that Toumpas didn't have the mentality to make it, given he was a successful U18's captain and SANFL player already. It was only when he got to the big stage that we discovered he was afraid of the crowd.

Wines was never really thought to be a top five monty, and there was no real surprise that we overlooked him. History will tell us that we made one of the biggest drafting blunders of all time, and that was made clear about a quarter into their respective debuts, but if we'd drafted Wines then we'd probably be too stacked in inside midfield come 2015 and be watching Darcy Parish wearing the #13 so swings and roundabouts.

 

[TheCount]

Not taking the piss, but I did mean he was a reach at our pick four rather than Port's pick seven. There was never any discussion of him going top three to GWS.



This sounds like a 2013 reflection, rather than a 2012 one. Wines was a raging bull, but he was considered by draft watchers to be slightly inferior to Viney, who we were taking in the second round after a presumably dodgy deal with GWS. You have to remember that this was 2012, the final year before most people realised that its easier to teach a footballer to run than a runner to play football.

As has been said above, Whitfield/Toumpas/Grundy was thought to be the consensus top three until the week of the draft. IIRC we had two part-time recruiters whilst we waited for JT to finish his Collingwood contract that season, I think they were T.Viney and Tim Harrington. There was lots of talk about how Jack and Ollie used to play together in Echuca, but during a radio interview Jack was asked who the best player in the draft was and he said - you guessed it - Jimmy Toumpas.

There was never any indication that Toumpas didn't have the mentality to make it, given he was a successful U18's captain and SANFL player already. It was only when he got to the big stage that we discovered he was afraid of the crowd.

Wines was never really thought to be a top five monty, and there was no real surprise that we overlooked him. History will tell us that we made one of the biggest drafting blunders of all time, and that was made clear about a quarter into their respective debuts, but if we'd drafted Wines then we'd probably be too stacked in inside midfield come 2015 and be watching Darcy Parish wearing the #13 so swings and roundabouts.

Yep, this is pretty much my memory of it as well. Wines was seen to be a bit of a reach for our pick at 4, but when Toumpas slipped out of the Top 3, it was a consensus pick. Likewise a few years earlier when we took Morton at 4, he won the Larke Medal at the 18's and was comfortably seen as a Top 4 pick, the only question was going to be if he was taken before we got to him. Thats the draft ...

Meanwhile .... sorry to get back on topic for a bit here ... but ...

be watching Darcy Parish wearing the #13

Interesting to note that Oliver is one of the best midfielders in the competition, and Parish has been dropped from one of the worst teams going around ...

 

[Toump Ass]

Main reason there would’ve been the lack of a time machine, crystal ball or similar.

I assumed our recruiters had functioning eyes. Have a look at the photographs on draft day, Wines was massive for a kid, obviously ready to go and didn't have a hip injury to worry about.

Toumpas is great

I'm aware of the narrative, doesn't change the fact I wanted Wines and I wasn't alone either (thank god forums like this and Demonland going back to the dark ages).

As for this "he was the consensus pick 2" or whatever: GWS obviously weren't in agreement with that. Either was Todd Viney from memory- anyone else remember the rumours him and Neeld got into a punch on regarding the pick?

Anyway, sorry for STINKING up your thread Clarry!

(fn love this pick, omg).

 

[stretcharmstrong]

I assumed our recruiters had functioning eyes. Have a look at the photographs on draft day, Wines was massive for a kid, obviously ready to go and didn't have a hip injury to worry about.

I can only assume what their functioning eyes revealed was a highly skilled, hard running 18 yo with leadership abilities (u18 captain) and with enough heart/balls/grunt to compete with and play well against men at SANFL level as a 17 yo. As was apparently the view of the majority of the functioning eyes in recruitment and draft watching nation wide, at the time.

Also, the hip issue became apparent after we drafted him I think?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing - and you’re claiming its not hindsight, that you knew before hand, which is great. Well done, you got lucky or you were just ahead of the curve in terms of the lower risk associated with drafting big bodied, contested mids vs drafting skinny, outside types early in the draft. But even then, does that mean that you should always go for the Wines types? I’d argue no because most of the time they have a lower scope for improvement - what you see is what you get and there’s always the risk that they were beating up in kids smaller than themselves and that when competing against big hardened AFL bodies they won’t look as dominant.

 

[Tempy Tiger]

Not taking the piss, but I did mean he was a reach at our pick four rather than Port's pick seven. There was never any discussion of him going top three to GWS.



This sounds like a 2013 reflection, rather than a 2012 one. Wines was a raging bull, but he was considered by draft watchers to be slightly inferior to Viney, who we were taking in the second round after a presumably dodgy deal with GWS. You have to remember that this was 2012, the final year before most people realised that its easier to teach a footballer to run than a runner to play football.

As has been said above, Whitfield/Toumpas/Grundy was thought to be the consensus top three until the week of the draft. IIRC we had two part-time recruiters whilst we waited for JT to finish his Collingwood contract that season, I think they were T.Viney and Tim Harrington. There was lots of talk about how Jack and Ollie used to play together in Echuca, but during a radio interview Jack was asked who the best player in the draft was and he said - you guessed it - Jimmy Toumpas.

There was never any indication that Toumpas didn't have the mentality to make it, given he was a successful U18's captain and SANFL player already. It was only when he got to the big stage that we discovered he was afraid of the crowd.

Wines was never really thought to be a top five monty, and there was no real surprise that we overlooked him. History will tell us that we made one of the biggest drafting blunders of all time, and that was made clear about a quarter into their respective debuts, but if we'd drafted Wines then we'd probably be too stacked in inside midfield come 2015 and be watching Darcy Parish wearing the #13 so swings and roundabouts.

Agree with all this. And I’d take Clarry over Wines every day of the week.