2006 Draft - need your help

[Snoop Dog]

I have been selected to represent the Pies at the Big Footy 2006 national draft and I need your assistance.

I have been following around 70-80 players who I have either seen live a lot or a little. Most of those interstate I have followed via the Champs and have seen some of the QLD kids live. Also been following their progress thru other mediums.

Anyway I first need to get some views on what you think we want. My views are below so feel free to give me your thoughts - appreciate the constructive/informed ones!

Key Position Forward (Likely Rd 2)

We have a massive reliance on Rocca and he is clearly tapering. Not sure he will be up to 26 rounds for to much longer. Travis Cloke is clearly on the way thru and he will be a CHF/CHB type.

Tarrant and Rusling are not big enough and whilst I can see Fraser playing more fwd he still isnt that big type that backmen fear barrelling into them from behind or running thru them.

For me we would love Riewoldt to be still available but I suspect the deeper we go in the finals the more remote that becomes. Therefore I think we will be looking in the second round for Tippett. Maybe Dawes?

Midfielders (Likely round 1 & 3)

Bucks, Licca and Burns all near the end. I think we will be looking for two in this draft and one of them very likely to to be in the first round. The other I think would be taken in round 3-4. Personally I think this draft has 5-6 top line mids and then 20-30 that arent far apart.

Ideal outcome would be to get a Proud, Selwood, Hislop, Pettard etc in round one and then a Moss, Hurley, Adams, Eddy, George, Boak, OBrien a little later.

Key Position Back (likely Rd 4)

Wakelin and Presti are nearing the end and whilst we have Maxy, Clement, JC (?), OBrien, Anthony and Toovey coming along I think we will look to a big back that will give us extra strength. KP backs are rarely taken early so if McKenzie or Allen was their second round maybe could be tempted.

Utlility (not sure)

We need one. Lonie has been tried and he aint in the elite category like Cornes, Goodes, Embley, McPhee.

Would love a Thorp or a Benjamin. Thorp likely to be gone by our first round and Benjamin very likely to be gone by our second round. Dawes, Everitt again could fir this category and may be around 25-50 pick. I have a feeling Pies may try and trade for another Rd 2-3 pick.

thoughts????

 

[Palmer Stoat]

What we need:

1. KPPs. Our KP set-up is a good one, but it's aging. Wakes, Presti, Clem, and Rocca are all veterans. The only youngster we have who is (a) a genuine KPP (b) a good prospect is Trav. Rusling and Anthony are both good prospects, but are they gonna be genuine KPPs? The jury's out.

A KPP therefore is our highest priority, especially a key defender. I wouldn't, however, exclude the possibility of drafting a key forward, as that might eventually release Trav to the backline, where he could take over from Presti as our big-bodied defender.

(I'm also assuming that we won't trade Tarrant.)


2. Inside mids. We need at least a couple of A-grade hard-as-nails mids who will feed pacy players like Thomas, Shaw, Lonie, Egan etc... Buckley and Burns are almost gone, Licuria plays more as a linking mid these days, and Holland and O'Bree aren't A-grade.

3. Tap ruckman. CC is short (for a ruckman) and has dodgy shoulders. Richards is quite a good tap ruckman, but is another who's always injured. Fanning just doesn't appear to be good enough. We need a ruckman who will complement Fraser's strengths and weaknesses. That is, a big, bullocking ruckman who can't get pushed off the ball and regularly gets his hand to the ball at bounces and throw ins.

In all draftees kicking skills should be non-negotiable, and pace highly desirable.

That said, I'm a great advocate for just taking the best available when drafting.

 

[Murray]

I have been selected to represent the Pies at the Big Footy 2006 national draft

What's this all about then?

 

[magpies42]

best available of KPP's and inside mids (i really dont think we need outside players as some posters have indicated!) with our first 2 picks.

 

[Snoop Dog]

personally hoping they persist with yakka and davies as inside mids.

 

[King Woodie]

1st pick - Hard as nails centreman/inside mid (ie Albert Proud). Selwood won't be around at this pick.

2nd pick - Either another inside or outside mid (ie Petterd, Hislop, O'Brien) or the best KPP available (McKenzie).

3rd pick - The opposite of what was taken with our second pick

4th pick - possibly a speculative young tall (ie Robbie Tarrant). Someone who may be a chance to go higher the next year that we can develop in the VFL or a spec ruckman.

We need to come away with two mids at least (including the first pick) and a key forward for down the track.

Let's not forget that we have picked up Martin Clarke who could end up being a solid to very good little pick up in our midfield in 2-4 years time, and Reed who could be anything from a centremen to a CHB (early indications are he would end up being a key back.)

 

[twaters]

Snoop,
no ruckman listed in your needs? Are you assuming Tippett @ rnd 2 will fit both KPF and ruck and thus didn't list ruck separately? Or assuming we'll trade beforehand for a ruck so that won't affect your draft pick needs? Only saw him in champs - big, late-aged I believe versus smaller/younger guys. Big call that he is answer to both KPF and ruck, if that is the assumption, but then you may have seen more of him in Qld.

With our defensive, sharking clearance players all going long in tooth, it is time to either replace them with defensive mids, or....umm...have an offensive, palming ruckman who finds our more attacking onballers (see all of this year's top four; last 5 permiership winners etc)....and get more of those kinds of onballers.

Not too worried about KPP for now, though nice addition somewhere (assuming we are not losing Tarrant, TCloke as wild cards - but optimistic re Anthony; same height as Wakes and a more modern KPB version); we need run, run, run in this new version of the game. With the "run" mantra comes mid linebreakers or dead-eye-dicks by foot.

Also not too worried re mid grunt just yet. Saw Yakka mark out Farren Ray at Weribee early this year; Davies has seldom been disgraced in his defensive mid roles - when tossed them - at Willi or in 1sts. They may transition further up after Burns/Licca move on. Grunt not high on picks agenda.

So, over to you. A potentially offensive ruckman and one or a couple of running mids who can kick dead-eye or at least run the lines and make the play?

Depending on where we finish and what we trade for beforehand, your hands will be tied a fair bit, but if possible I am sure you will do us Proud.

 

[Jabso]

Best availble this year.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

I think our drafting should go something like:

Round 1: Inside Mid (Unless Riewoldt drops)

I would assume that if Jack Riewoldt is off the board, one out of Joel Selwood, Albert Proud or Tom Hislop should still be available when we pick, so I'd go with one of them.

Round 2: A versatile tall (Unless we get Riewoldt in Rd 1)

Here we need to address the need for height, provided we haven't already done that.

I would look at McKenzie or Everitt, although if any AFL recruiters rate them like I do, they won't be available. Other than that, one of the Brown twins or Tom Collier.

If we're picking a midfielder, someone like Gavin Urquhart, Gary Moss, David Armitage or Shaun Grigg could be around.

Round 3: Best available

Although we do have other needs, you don't waste picks drafting for need in a draft this strong. If I was splitting hairs, I'd lean towards another tall, with a view to picking up a solid, if unspectacular midfielder later in the draft, ala Matt White and Matt Thomas last year - Guys that will probably end up AFL players, but don't have any star potential, really.

This would be the place to take a guy who may have inexplicably fallen, like Andrew Swallow last year.

Round 4: Fill the gaps.

At this point, you draft whatever you haven't already drafted, and perhaps go for a player that you might see more in than anyone else. You don't draft someone unless you like them at this point, because if you don't like them, and neither does anyone else (seeing as every team has likely passed on them twice by here)

Whoever you've heard good things about, and could fill a need for us is a good plan here.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Snoop,
no ruckman listed in your needs? Are you assuming Tippett @ rnd 2 will fit both KPF and ruck and thus didn't list ruck separately? Or assuming we'll trade beforehand for a ruck so that won't affect your draft pick needs? Only saw him in champs - big, late-aged I believe versus smaller/younger guys. Big call that he is answer to both KPF and ruck, if that is the assumption, but then you may have seen more of him in Qld.

With our defensive, sharking clearance players all going long in tooth, it is time to either replace them with defensive mids, or....umm...have an offensive, palming ruckman who finds our more attacking onballers (see all of this year's top four; last 5 permiership winners etc)....and get more of those kinds of onballers.

Not too worried about KPP for now, though nice addition somewhere (assuming we are not losing Tarrant, TCloke as wild cards - but optimistic re Anthony; same height as Wakes and a more modern KPB version); we need run, run, run in this new version of the game. With the "run" mantra comes mid linebreakers or dead-eye-dicks by foot.

Also not too worried re mid grunt just yet. Saw Yakka mark out Farren Ray at Weribee early this year; Davies has seldom been disgraced in his defensive mid roles - when tossed them - at Willi or in 1sts. They may transition further up after Burns/Licca move on. Grunt not high on picks agenda.

So, over to you. A potentially offensive ruckman and one or a couple of running mids who can kick dead-eye or at least run the lines and make the play?

Depending on where we finish and what we trade for beforehand, your hands will be tied a fair bit, but if possible I am sure you will do us Proud.

Good stuff - you are right I was thinking if we get Tippett he could be either KPF or Ruck. Just think given he has only played 2 years he could be the answer. Would also hope we could rookie Hardy who I think has plenty of development.

Agree with you on Yakka and Davies - would rather take quick outside mids who have skill. Proud would be great.

 

[Snoop Dog]

I think our drafting should go something like:

Round 1: Inside Mid (Unless Riewoldt drops)

I would assume that if Jack Riewoldt is off the board, one out of Joel Selwood, Albert Proud or Tom Hislop should still be available when we pick, so I'd go with one of them.

Round 2: A versatile tall (Unless we get Riewoldt in Rd 1)

Here we need to address the need for height, provided we haven't already done that.

I would look at McKenzie or Everitt, although if any AFL recruiters rate them like I do, they won't be available. Other than that, one of the Brown twins or Tom Collier.

If we're picking a midfielder, someone like Gavin Urquhart, Gary Moss, David Armitage or Shaun Grigg could be around.

Round 3: Best available

Although we do have other needs, you don't waste picks drafting for need in a draft this strong. If I was splitting hairs, I'd lean towards another tall, with a view to picking up a solid, if unspectacular midfielder later in the draft, ala Matt White and Matt Thomas last year - Guys that will probably end up AFL players, but don't have any star potential, really.

This would be the place to take a guy who may have inexplicably fallen, like Andrew Swallow last year.

Round 4: Fill the gaps.

At this point, you draft whatever you haven't already drafted, and perhaps go for a player that you might see more in than anyone else. You don't draft someone unless you like them at this point, because if you don't like them, and neither does anyone else (seeing as every team has likely passed on them twice by here)

Whoever you've heard good things about, and could fill a need for us is a good plan here.

Tend to agree if Reiwoldt was available rd 1 you would take him or else you would be looking at selwood, hislop or proud.

From here on in much I guess depends on how they rated teh development of Stanley, Iles and Cook this year. If they think they are very good they may lean to taller players and a ruck.

What do you think of at this early stage;

Rd 1 - Reiwoldt or Proud/Selwood/Hislop
Rd 2 - Grigg/Eddy or Tippett
Rd 3 - George/Hurley/Moss/Urquhart
Rd 4 - Reid/ Dawes
Rd 5 - best ruck

 

[King Woodie]

Yeah I tend to agree with the list above, and would just like to clarify thoughts on Reidwoldt. I am sure he has got a lot of potential and will be a terrific player, but for our needs, he seems to be a mobile key forward (in the same mould as Tarrant and Rusling) and not a big pack mark type forward. In four years time, I just think that having three of these types of players in the one forward line is too many, however, someone like Proud/Selwood/Hislop are always going to be able to fit into a side given they are as good as they are billed to be. Happy for discussion on this point, as I don't know a great deal about Reidwoldt. Am I wrong? Good to see that we are generally in agreeance about the likely types of inside mids that we are after. I hope we get Proud.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Agree with you on Yakka and Davies - would rather take quick outside mids who have skill. Proud would be great.

First:

Ben Davies is NOT an inside mid in style. He is tough as nails, and works incredibly hard, but he's not an in-and-under clearance player - He's a hard runner who works to get into space. He is somewhat in the vein of Ben Johnson in this respect - You wouldn't call him soft, but he is a running player.

Second:

Yakka may make it, but he is outnumbered by young outside midfielders on our list.

Dale Thomas, Scott Pendlebury and Heath Shaw WILL make it as midfielders, and all are outside. Egan is pretty likely as an outsider. Even Rowe and Iles are outside midfield candidates. Not to mention we already have Ben Johnson, Rhyce Shaw, Alan Didak and Ryan Lonie who all spend time as outside midfielders.

Yakka is joined only by Stanley (who might not ever become a midfielder) and possibly Nicholls (who's not exclusively inside), so not only are the inside mids on our list outnumbered, there's an ENORMOUS gap in class between the two divisions. Swan is decent in this area, but he's not a real inside midfielder, and Brodie is a similar story.

I just don't think we can justify using another first round pick on an outside midfielder - We will end up the softest team in the league unless we get someone who can become the primary ball winner and take over from Burns, O'Bree and Licuria, all of whom will be gone in 3 years.

What do you think of at this early stage;

Rd 1 - Reiwoldt or Proud/Selwood/Hislop
Rd 2 - Grigg/Eddy or Tippett
Rd 3 - George/Hurley/Moss/Urquhart
Rd 4 - Reid/ Dawes
Rd 5 - best ruck

I'd probably take Hurley, Moss and Urquhart ahead of Grigg or Eddy, but that's just me. I see more in the previous three then the latter two.

If you're referring to Ben Reid at Rd 4, there is absolutely no chance that he'll be on the board by our 2nd round pick, let alone our 4th. If he was there by our 2nd pick, we'd be downright foolish not to pick him up. Super talented kid.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Yeah I tend to agree with the list above, and would just like to clarify thoughts on Reidwoldt. I am sure he has got a lot of potential and will be a terrific player, but for our needs, he seems to be a mobile key forward (in the same mould as Tarrant and Rusling) and not a big pack mark type forward. In four years time, I just think that having three of these types of players in the one forward line is too many, however, someone like Proud/Selwood/Hislop are always going to be able to fit into a side given they are as good as they are billed to be. Happy for discussion on this point, as I don't know a great deal about Reidwoldt. Am I wrong? Good to see that we are generally in agreeance about the likely types of inside mids that we are after. I hope we get Proud.

Cheers
Tend to think Reiwoldt will grow bigger than those two lads from what I have seen.

 

[Snoop Dog]

First:

Ben Davies is NOT an inside mid in style. He is tough as nails, and works incredibly hard, but he's not an in-and-under clearance player - He's a hard runner who works to get into space. He is somewhat in the vein of Ben Johnson in this respect - You wouldn't call him soft, but he is a running player.

Second:

Yakka may make it, but he is outnumbered by young outside midfielders on our list.

Dale Thomas, Scott Pendlebury and Heath Shaw WILL make it as midfielders, and all are outside. Egan is pretty likely as an outsider. Even Rowe and Iles are outside midfield candidates. Not to mention we already have Ben Johnson, Rhyce Shaw, Alan Didak and Ryan Lonie who all spend time as outside midfielders.

Yakka is joined only by Stanley (who might not ever become a midfielder) and possibly Nicholls (who's not exclusively inside), so not only are the inside mids on our list outnumbered, there's an ENORMOUS gap in class between the two divisions. Swan is decent in this area, but he's not a real inside midfielder, and Brodie is a similar story.

I just don't think we can justify using another first round pick on an outside midfielder - We will end up the softest team in the league unless we get someone who can become the primary ball winner and take over from Burns, O'Bree and Licuria, all of whom will be gone in 3 years.


I'd probably take Hurley, Moss and Urquhart ahead of Grigg or Eddy, but that's just me. I see more in the previous three then the latter two.

If you're referring to Ben Reid at Rd 4, there is absolutely no chance that he'll be on the board by our 2nd round pick, let alone our 4th. If he was there by our 2nd pick, we'd be downright foolish not to pick him up. Super talented kid.

Fair points VV - I think if Yakka was given a go he could be. Jury out on Davies for me.

Who do you rate as the best inside mids in the draft?

Re Ben Reid - I know more would agree with you but I have seen him a couple of times and have not liked a few things I have seen.

 

[goldcoast]

I can only comment on the Queensland lads, but if Tippett is around on our first selection then we should take him. He can just move around in forward 50 and have didak & davis sit on him. He just loves to hit the pack. Being an ex basketballer he has beautiful hands to tap ruck and can be utilised in that capacity.
Another smokey who for whatever reason doesn't get a mention anywhere is Hayden Kiel. Went to draft camp last year as 17yo and was impressive at state championships this year, did a great tagging job on rioli in first game of carnival and was freed up a little after that game. Hits the line hard and breakthroughs and has a penetrating kick.
If Collingwood continue with the more running type game we did at the start of the year and kick long i think these two blokes will fit into the mould.
Other choices for midfield are petterd(outside), armitage(inside), not sure about urqhaurt or dzufer haven't seen alot but when i have just for me dont have that zip about them.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Who do you rate as the best inside mids in the draft?

After Selwood, Proud and Hislop, I'd say you're looking at Armitage, Connors (not exclusively inside though), Hurley and Urquhart, in about that order.

 

[Snoop Dog]

I think in the actual draft it is quite real we could be choosing btw Proud, Reiwoldt and Benjamin. 3 very different types.

Not sure who Hines would go for and to be honest if we go with VV suggestion of whose the best player I am not sure - suspect it is Reiwoldt.

 

[King Woodie]

I actually think St Kilda will be having that choice (one pick in front of us) and it is likely that they would go for Reidwoldt I would have thought. We get pick 10, and I think there is a 5% chance that Selwood will be still around. Wishful thinking.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Nothing we do at this draft will change next year.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

I actually think St Kilda will be having that choice (one pick in front of us) and it is likely that they would go for Reidwoldt I would have thought. We get pick 10, and I think there is a 5% chance that Selwood will be still around. Wishful thinking.

Avoiding any serious rises or falls, at this stage it COULD shape up something like:

#1: Carlton - Bryce Gibbs
#2: Essendon - Scott Gumbleton
#3: Kangaroos - Lachlan Hansen
#4: Brisbane - Mitch Thorp
#5: Port Adelaide - Joel Selwood
#6: Hawthorn - James Sellar
#7: Geelong - Leroy Jetta
#8: Richmond - Jack Riewoldt
#9: St Kilda - Matt Leuenberger
#10: Collingwood - Albert Proud

That would be an absolute dream come true - I don't think it's reasonable to expect Selwood, Leuenberger or Riewoldt to be available, but Proud could be, which would be perfect.

If not Proud, Hislop should be our man - Tough as nails, aggressive tackler, can play all over the ground.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Avoiding any serious rises or falls, at this stage it COULD shape up something like:

#1: Carlton - Bryce Gibbs
#2: Essendon - Scott Gumbleton
#3: Kangaroos - Lachlan Hansen
#4: Brisbane - Mitch Thorp
#5: Port Adelaide - Joel Selwood
#6: Hawthorn - James Sellar
#7: Geelong - Leroy Jetta
#8: Richmond - Jack Riewoldt
#9: St Kilda - Matt Leuenberger
#10: Collingwood - Albert Proud

That would be an absolute dream come true - I don't think it's reasonable to expect Selwood, Leuenberger or Riewoldt to be available, but Proud could be, which would be perfect.

If not Proud, Hislop should be our man - Tough as nails, aggressive tackler, can play all over the ground.

Agreed - lot depends on Sellar going before our pick. He seems to have tapered off according to the SANFL observers so am wondering if he is a slider.

Also need Geelong to take Jetta which is they style of player they need so hopefully happens.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Agreed - lot depends on Sellar going before our pick. He seems to have tapered off according to the SANFL observers so am wondering if he is a slider.

Also need Geelong to take Jetta which is they style of player they need so hopefully happens.

Yeah, Sellar's slide has been interesting, but Mitch Clark was in ordinary form last year, and he still went top 10.

Geelong could very much take Proud instead of Jetta, but if we were left with Jetta on the board, I would pick him up.

I know he's not what we need, but he IS super-talented, and would be the best available.

 

[twaters]

Well, pick 10.

Riewoldt may be one freckle more "best player" still there at that point, - I don't rightly know - but agree with King Woodie that this may leave us with 3 tall forward flankers - Tarrant, Rusling, Riewoldt. Of course, if Tarrant is ear-marked for a trade, then that might be worth it structurally.....

But otherwise is Riewoldt that one more freckle better than Selwood/Proud/Hislop if any of them happen to be there at 10? The structure of our team and list's age is crying out for mids. We may be calling them something different (VV= "Inside mids" but cites the same three players; others call them runners; myself = "playmakers" who can get their own ball but are not alone good but dour in the mud clearancers - see "McGough" - but get the ball and make the play through vision, kicking skills or even breaking a line or two - rare - but same three players in mind).

If we go with one of those three, then Snoop's thought of Tippett as an offensive palming ruckman who can go forward may hit the spot at rnd 2....but will he still be there at pick 28? Do we need to trade to get a lower rnd 2 pick?

Rnds 3 & 4 probably depend on who we have promoted and traded for. Dawes et al flexible talls? Or another mid that slipped? In which order?

Heartened to see Snoop suggesting rookie-ing a ruckman (Hardy - unknown to me; Jacobs or others may still be there). I guess 5th rnd pick might also be saved for PSD to see if any rucks/talls are left there. Don't need a giant beanpole nor a galloping gasometer; if none out there do we need to trade for a Knobel/Johnson type?

Thankfully, we have folk paid to think this all through for us - to shape our ends, rough-hew them how we will.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Well, pick 10.

Riewoldt may be one freckle more "best player" still there at that point, - I don't rightly know - but agree with King Woodie that this may leave us with 3 tall forward flankers - Tarrant, Rusling, Riewoldt. Of course, if Tarrant is ear-marked for a trade, then that might be worth it structurally.....

But otherwise is Riewoldt that one more freckle better than Selwood/Proud/Hislop if any of them happen to be there at 10? The structure of our team and list's age is crying out for mids. We may be calling them something different (VV= "Inside mids" but cites the same three players; others call them runners; myself = "playmakers" who can get their own ball but are not alone good but dour in the mud clearancers - see "McGough" - but get the ball and make the play through vision, kicking skills or even breaking a line or two - rare - but same three players in mind).

If we go with one of those three, then Snoop's thought of Tippett as an offensive palming ruckman who can go forward may hit the spot at rnd 2....but will he still be there at pick 28? Do we need to trade to get a lower rnd 2 pick?

Rnds 3 & 4 probably depend on who we have promoted and traded for. Dawes et al flexible talls? Or another mid that slipped? In which order?

Heartened to see Snoop suggesting rookie-ing a ruckman (Hardy - unknown to me; Jacobs or others may still be there). I guess 5th rnd pick might also be saved for PSD to see if any rucks/talls are left there. Don't need a giant beanpole nor a galloping gasometer; if none out there do we need to trade for a Knobel/Johnson type?

Thankfully, we have folk paid to think this all through for us - to shape our ends, rough-hew them how we will.

yep and not many better than Hines over last few years

definately think we need to trade into pick 20-30 space