Draft Review 2008 - Re-do the 2008 draft

[Quigley]

Hannebery and Beams are both excellent players. The fact that I think Rockliff should be considered up there with them does not detract from the fact that I would love to have either in my side if I could swing it.

These are all excellent players but it is worth noting that none of these guys are getting consistently tagged atm. As time progresses it will be interesting to see how they deal with that change.

 

[the distributer]

nope

Yep, you can't just pick what part of the season you want to count, Beams has put up numbers over an entire season, end of story.

 

[Harris Specter]

Yep, you can't just pick what part of the season you want to count, Beams has put up numbers over an entire season, end of story.

Yep, you can't just pick what part of the season career you want to count, Beams Rockliff has put up numbers over an entire season career , end of story.

 

[the distributer]

Seriosly, how about I only count Beams best 8 games of 2012? Fair enough?

 

[the distributer]

Yep, you can't just pick what part of the season career you want to count, Beams Rockliff has put up numbers over an entire season career , end of story.

They don't hand out AAs and BaFs for top 4 teams off the back of 8'games.

 

[Harris Specter]

Seriosly, how about I only count Beams best 8 games of 2012? Fair enough?

Rockliff, Beams, Hannebery are all guns of the competition and will be really exciting to watch them play. Every team's supporter will say their player is marginally better than the other, it's only natural. It's outrageous to say Beams is clearly better than another player, particularly when stats prove otherwise.

 

[Ironmonger]

Yep, you can't just pick what part of the season you want to count, Beams has put up numbers over an entire season, end of story.

For what it's worth, when you post a statement like that and close with 'end of story' you make yourself look like you haven't thought about it very much. It certainly doesn't make your point any more convincing.

 

[Quigley]

Seriosly, how about I only count Beams best 8 games of 2012? Fair enough?

So what you are saying is that Beams has had one season where he has been better than Rockliff.

 

[Quigley]

They don't hand out AAs and BaFs for top 4 teams off the back of 8'games.

They love to hand out AAs to Collingwood players and miss no opporunity to do so.

How about we talk Brownlow points. Collingwood more competition for points but more points to go around given more wins. Brisbane less competition but less points as well. Beams in 2012 had 19 points, Rockliff in 2013 had 21. Rockliff clearly the better year and given it is more recent clearly the better player at this moment. End of story *is that how its done*

 

[Wild Bill]

They don't hand out AAs and BaFs for top 4 teams off the back of 8'games.

He forgot to mention that 4 of those 8 teams were the 4 worst sides in the comp - GWS, Dees, Saints and Dogs. Talk about padding the stats.

 

[Ironmonger]

He forgot to mention that 4 of those 8 teams were the 4 worst sides in the comp - GWS, Dees, Saints and Dogs. Talk about padding the stats.

North were in there too, weren't they?

 

[Shaneprice97]

I can't wait until Beams plays in a bottom 8 Collingwood lineup so everyone can just STFU and realise Beams only had 1 good season because the team around him. Same can be said for Hanners

okay just getting my point across so other Flogs like this guy actually gain knowledge and stop talking shit.
Seriously 1 good season?
2009: Debut season, Great start to his career and finishes 3rd in the rising star.
2010: had already cemented his spot in a premiership team. Played Forward/Midfield averaged 21 disposals and a goal a game.
2011: played more midfield, was probably our most underrated player. Was good the first half of the year, but turned his game up to a whole new level the second half. Averaging 23 disposals the whole year averaging 1.3 goals a game. Second half of the year coming back from a injuries and averaging 28 disposals and averaging 1.6 goals a game. Would of been very handy in the GF if he wasnt injured.
2012: first 2 games had 22 disposal and didnt dip near that many again for the rest of the year.
Had a great anzac day and really made a name for himself against Adelaide getting best on ground.
He had 3 best on grounds against 3 of the other 4 top 5 teams
Adelaide/ 36 disposal 2 goals
West coast/ 34 disposals 3 goals
Sydney/ 34 disposals 3 goals
And the game against hawthorn who were on top of the ladder, and was robbed of bog he got
34 disposals 4 goals.
Beams had 17 games with over 30 disposals, he never dipped lower than 22 disposals and if he didnt get 30 disposal he would get in the high 20's. He was our best in the finals series. He and danes swan costed eachother the brownlow medal and to top off the season he won the best and fairest and gained an all australian guernsey. averaged 31 disposals and 1.2 goals for the year
2013: hammered by injuries, returned in strong form, was never going to be as good as 2012 but he returned better than i thought he would. Averaged 29 disposals and almost a goal a game.

In conclusion, Beams has been 'Good' his whole career. Rockliff is a absolute gun but the goal kicking midfielders with great skill are rated as the best afl players, and beams is one of the best of them. Its like an argument between Sam Mitchell (defensive midfielder, great skill but rarely scores goals) and Gary Ablett (defensive and offensive midfield who goes regularly scores goals)
Gary Ablett would be picked 9 times out of ten despite both players being elite at the position they play.

 

[Wild Bill]

North were in there too, weren't they?

Yeah 28 touches against us is nothing to write home about.

Checks Freo and Hawks = 18, 20.

Do the averages v top 8 and bottom 9 teams.

 

[38Rockliff38]

He forgot to mention that 4 of those 8 teams were the 4 worst sides in the comp - GWS, Dees, Saints and Dogs. Talk about padding the stats.

What about the 37 touches vs Geelong at Geelong

 

[38Rockliff38]

Yeah 28 touches against us is nothing to write home about.

Checks Freo and Hawks = 18, 20.

Do the averages v top 8 and bottom 9 teams.

Was playing on a half forward flank during that middle section of the year. Hence the below average stats

 

[38Rockliff38]

okay just getting my point across so other Flogs like this guy actually gain knowledge and stop talking shit.
Seriously 1 good season?
2009: Debut season, Great start to his career and finishes 3rd in the rising star.
2010: had already cemented his spot in a premiership team. Played Forward/Midfield averaged 21 disposals and a goal a game.
2011: played more midfield, was probably our most underrated player. Was good the first half of the year, but turned his game up to a whole new level the second half. Averaging 23 disposals the whole year averaging 1.3 goals a game. Second half of the year coming back from a injuries and averaging 28 disposals and averaging 1.6 goals a game. Would of been very handy in the GF if he wasnt injured.
2012: first 2 games had 22 disposal and didnt dip near that many again for the rest of the year.
Had a great anzac day and really made a name for himself against Adelaide getting best on ground.
He had 3 best on grounds against 3 of the other 4 top 5 teams
Adelaide/ 36 disposal 2 goals
West coast/ 34 disposals 3 goals
Sydney/ 34 disposals 3 goals
And the game against hawthorn who were on top of the ladder, and was robbed of bog he got
34 disposals 4 goals.
Beams had 17 games with over 30 disposals, he never dipped lower than 22 disposals and if he didnt get 30 disposal he would get in the high 20's. He was our best in the finals series. He and danes swan costed eachother the brownlow medal and to top off the season he won the best and fairest and gained an all australian guernsey. averaged 31 disposals and 1.2 goals for the year
2013: hammered by injuries, returned in strong form, was never going to be as good as 2012 but he returned better than i thought he would. Averaged 29 disposals and almost a goal a game.

In conclusion, Beams has been 'Good' his whole career. Rockliff is a absolute gun but the goal kicking midfielders with great skill are rated as the best afl players, and beams is one of the best of them. Its like an argument between Sam Mitchell (defensive midfielder, great skill but rarely scores goals) and Gary Ablett (defensive and offensive midfield who goes regularly scores goals)
Gary Ablett would be picked 9 times out of ten despite both players being elite at the position they play.

Rockliff beats him for stats in all but one of those seasons.

 

[Ironmonger]

Yeah 28 touches against us is nothing to write home about.

Three Brownlow votes might be worth a letter.

 

[Harris Specter]

Yeah 28 touches against us is nothing to write home about.

Checks Freo and Hawks = 18, 20.

Do the averages v top 8 and bottom 9 teams.

Also got 34 touches against North the first time. Nothing to write home about? Another 34 against Richmond and 37 against Geelong in Geelong. Yeah average against top teams.

Besides, he was injured between Round 9 and Round 13, hence him resting in the forward pocket.

 

[Wild Bill]

Injured - played forward - any more excuses for his poor games??

Beams did not need any of that in his AA year - when he was one of the best players in the comp.

 

[KissKiss]

And the game against hawthorn who were on top of the ladder, and was robbed of bog he got
34 disposals 4 goals.

If that is the Hawthorn game I remember, he may have got a lot of the ball but the way were all pretty crap touches. A lot of them were just throwing it onto the boot kicks that went straight to hawks players and the ball came straight back over his head. He may have got a lot of the ball (and kicked goals) but the Hawks smashed him that day. There is no way that should be considered as one of his best games and people massively over rate it

 

[Quigley]

Injured - played forward - any more excuses for his poor games??

Beams did not need any of that in his AA year - when he was one of the best players in the comp.

So you are saying that we should not excuse 2013 for Beams because he was injured and should take account of all the games he missed when assessing him. Harsh but fair I guess.

On the Brownlow voting Rockliff was the 6th best player in the competition. Sounds like he had a pretty fair year. Each to their own I guess.

 

[Shaneprice97]

Rockliff beats him for stats in all but one of those seasons.

rockliff may of averaged 2-3 more disposals earlier in there careers in 2010/11, but beams was kicking 20 goals more each season which is more valuable than 2-3 disposals a game. But the last 2 seasons and a half beams has been getting more disposal inside and out and scoring goals.

 

[Wild Bill]

What about the 37 touches vs Geelong at Geelong

Was that the game where the Cats had stitched their spot up in the top 4 and played a bruise free game as they had a massive one the next week? We got a similar game v Pies the next day. Pretty games with players getting plenty of it.

 

[Harris Specter]

Injured - played forward - any more excuses for his poor games??

Beams did not need any of that in his AA year - when he was one of the best players in the comp.

Okay. Rockliff finished 5th in the Brownlow this year. Beams in 2012 had 19 points, Rockliff this year had 21, despite these so called 'excuses'.

Your arguments are getting weaker and weaker.

 

[Shaneprice97]

If that is the Hawthorn game I remember, he may have got a lot of the ball but the way were all pretty crap touches. A lot of them were just throwing it onto the boot kicks that went straight to hawks players and the ball came straight back over his head. He may have got a lot of the ball (and kicked goals) but the Hawks smashed him that day. There is no way that should be considered as one of his best games and people massively over rate it

that was pretty much our hole team in a nutshell, swan was probably the worst as far as disposal efficiency when that day (picked up 50 disposals, at probably 50 percent efficiency) Beams was better then swan that day, but we were just overwhelmed by hawthorn in general.