karix
Yarrr!
There's some content. Thanks man, awesome post!
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2012 Draft Discussion
- Thread starter whatboutbob
- Start date
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Morgs_
Club Legend
- Jun 8, 2012
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Well said notliondown, need to give these kids a chance. Extremely harsh on those who haven't even played a game to be called spuds. I think Kerr and co. have done a good job in recruiting so far, we'll get a true measure in the years to come.
GO Lions!
GO Lions!
Simply, I liked your post. Furthermore I agreed with your comments both in regard to KeSter not deserving a card and your lighthearted dig at POBT.
I was just being facetious about the mood of the thread at the time and my trepidation at agreeing with you in light of the infringements being handed out
Ohh ok. Great stuff Skoob! Sorry for me being so slow. Nearly ruined the joke!Simply, I liked your post. Furthermore I agreed with your comments both in regard to KeSter not deserving a card and your lighthearted dig at POBT.
I was just being facetious about the mood of the thread at the time and my trepidation at agreeing with you in light of the infringements being handed out
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chopperduck
Brownlow Medallist
Sadly, some here seem to be immune to the powers of logic and reason.
Geez Michael Close is pretty big isnt he? He just has the mature look about him, hopefully he puts some more weight on and brings some aggression that Browny was renowned for in his younger years.
mpal6
Brownlow Medallist
We have played Harwood in defense and he has shown lot of smarts under a barrage of forward pressure. Most of us acknowledged what a surprise packet he was considering we pigeon holed him for inside-mid or bust.
Beams was played as a sub more often. Just shows that our match committee still thinks he's a work in progress in terms of playing 4 quarters.
I was very pleased to see Harwood on the ground, in defense, showing that awareness. Gave me enormous belief that he'll take more measured options if moved to his designated inside mid role in the near future. Right from his debut against one of the very best sides in Geelong, finding the footy was never a problem for Harwood, question marks were always around disposal efficiency.
We are developing other strings to his bow now, it will come together eventually. Perseverance is the key.
PrideIsInstinctive
Debutant
The players we drafted are so baffling.
Mayes - Okay pickup, addresses a need for a silky forward/midfielder
Close - How many tall forwards do we need?
Paparone - How many tall forwards do we need?
Current Talls
Brown
Staker
Lisle
Longer
Karnezis
Lester
Cornelius
Wearden
Crisp
Close
Paparone
10 talls to fit into 2 or 3 spots and Brown is untouchable. Plus you probably only have one 3rd tall, so that leaves 7 players fighting for the 1 spot, assuming that Close and Paprone fit into that category (Cornelius clones). The problem is these two draftees aren't big enough and will face the same problems as Cornelius when dealing with gorillas that can easily blanket them.
A guy like Sam Colquhoun (averaging a whopping 28 disposals in the Championships) fits a massive need off half-back and I can't believe the Lions didn't give a serious look at him since he is the perfect replacement for Drummond. You look at the best teams and they have good kickers off half-back, a la Birchall, both Shaws and Reilly
Even Tanner Smith was around the mark and at least he is a few cms taller and a nice size for KP.
All in all, I reckon it was a poor effort by the Lions
Mayes - Okay pickup, addresses a need for a silky forward/midfielder
Close - How many tall forwards do we need?
Paparone - How many tall forwards do we need?
Current Talls
Brown
Staker
Lisle
Longer
Karnezis
Lester
Cornelius
Wearden
Crisp
Close
Paparone
10 talls to fit into 2 or 3 spots and Brown is untouchable. Plus you probably only have one 3rd tall, so that leaves 7 players fighting for the 1 spot, assuming that Close and Paprone fit into that category (Cornelius clones). The problem is these two draftees aren't big enough and will face the same problems as Cornelius when dealing with gorillas that can easily blanket them.
A guy like Sam Colquhoun (averaging a whopping 28 disposals in the Championships) fits a massive need off half-back and I can't believe the Lions didn't give a serious look at him since he is the perfect replacement for Drummond. You look at the best teams and they have good kickers off half-back, a la Birchall, both Shaws and Reilly
Even Tanner Smith was around the mark and at least he is a few cms taller and a nice size for KP.
All in all, I reckon it was a poor effort by the Lions
- Oct 20, 2012
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hey buddy you do realise you draft for the future, not for the next year these guys were selected to develop for the day browny isnt around anymore.. also if you keep up with our plans karneziz lester and wearden as viewed as flankers/midfielders, crisp has always been a midfielder
I reckon that Lester would be considered more of a back/mid than a forward, and Crisp has been groomed as a mid. Wearden has been playing his reserves footy in defense as well, and I wouldn't classify him as a forward. I also wouldn't classify Close as an Ace clone by any stretch of the imagination. Close is taller, larger, and will be groomed as that gorilla forward, whereas Aaron has categorically been slotted in that 3rd tall role.
As far as Drummo's replacement goes, many would argue that we did that last year with Docherty.
As far as Drummo's replacement goes, many would argue that we did that last year with Docherty.
Also I doubt we are looking for a HBF'er to replace Drummond. We have an abundance of players who can play there plus we drafted Sam Docherty last year.
whatboutbob
Serial Avatar Troll
- Thread starter
- #4,137
It sounds like you haven't read Kerr's comments on the draftees.
He indicated that Paparone was drafted as a flanker, not a KPF. Staker has been flagged to play that 'connector' role for the next year or two, with Paparone hopefully to step in thereafter.
Close was drafted as a CHF to take over from Brown once he retires.
Voss is on the record as saying Cornelius is not a KPF, but rather a 3rd tall forward.
Wearden plays down back (but not KP).
Crisp is being groomed as a midfielder.
Longer: Ruck/resting fwd.
Karny/Lester/Lisle: Debatable, but the first two at least are quite versatile and are unlikely to be limited to a KPF spot.
Grimreepah
BigFooty One Armed Man
Under 22 team:
B: Docherty Clarke Golby
HB: Harwood Lisle Lester
C: Beams Karnezis Crisp
HF: Paparone Michael Mayes
F: O'Brien Close Green
R: Longer Redden Polec
I: Yeo Newell Wearden Bartlett
Seems fairly balanced.
B: Docherty Clarke Golby
HB: Harwood Lisle Lester
C: Beams Karnezis Crisp
HF: Paparone Michael Mayes
F: O'Brien Close Green
R: Longer Redden Polec
I: Yeo Newell Wearden Bartlett
Seems fairly balanced.
karix
Yarrr!
Good post. I agree with you that there is a lot of competition for the tall positions already, and adding another 2 just makes things more complicated.
I would argue though that none of current talls (Brown excluded) are clear and obvious replacements or contenders for our 1-2 KPF slots. Does that mean we should've just stuck with what we've got and hoped one of them develops nicely, or do we hedge our bets and grab a handful of potential talent to increase our chances of getting a winner?
We already have good kickers off half back.. Hanley, Golby. With more on the way with the likes of Docherty, but I would put to you it's easier to find a good kick from half back than it is to find a KPF.
patfullfankezz
Puhuhuhuhu!
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So AFL teams only have 2 or 3 talls? Since when?
They are only undeveloped kids and most likely not chosen to play round 1 in our best 22.
17 other clubs apparently didn't want Sam Colquhoun either.
Too many talls but we should have taken Tanner Smith? We would then only have 9 talls to fit into "2 or 3 spots"
I think the club's (Kerr's) reasons make enough sense to be satisfied we did ok.
- Aug 10, 2005
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Current Talls
Brown - 1 or 2 years
Staker - might not even return, a real unknown, more of a flanker, can play back
Lisle - isn't proven at AFL level
Longer- is a ruckman
Karnezis - 3rd tall/midfielder, can play small
Lester - back/mid
Cornelius - not proven at AFL level, 3rd tall
Wearden - will probably not make it AFL level, 3rd tall
Crisp - midfielder
Close
Paparone
Mayes was simply best available (apart from Grundy).
You don't pick a squad for 1 season, you actually have to prepare many seasons ahead of time. In 2 or 3 years Brown and Staker will probably both be gone and from our current list we'll probably have Lisle, Karnezis, Cornelius, Close, Paparone and maybe Michael competing for the 2 or 3 tall forward positions. That's 5 or 6 for 2 or 3 positions unless we trade for another key forward which will probably results in at least one of those 5 or 6 not being on the list.
They are most definitely not Cornelius clones, they are very different. Good luck finding anyone to agree with you on this.
Lisle and Close will be moulded into strong key forwards.
1. The Lions would have had a serious look at all at the under 18 champs.
2. If he was a replacement for Drummond one of the 17 other clubs would have taken him. Were we meant to pick him up in the thirties when other clubs wouldn't draft him in the eighties?
3. We have many half back options that are probably better than him.
I'm sure the club would have had a good look at Tanner Smith but perhaps didn't rate him highly enough or didn't think key backs are a concern.
Grimreepah
BigFooty One Armed Man
There's something about Michael Close that is eerily similar to someone else, but I can't work who it is.
Cousin Jed
Retired President of BigFooty
Jack Crisp is going to get a shock when he gets sent to train with the key position players
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Hollow Knight
Imperfect vessel
- May 3, 2005
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Would have thought another half-back was the last thing we need. The running half-back pantry is well and truly full.
Alas Smith
Senior List
- Nov 5, 2012
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Totally agree with PrideIsInstinctive but why stop with the talls how about we reduce the whole squad and trim it down to say a bare minimum of 28 - may as well cut the rookies, internationals and while we are at it who needs the academy?
POBT
Brownlow Medallist
I would have thought it almost indisputable that we would draft a tall forward. I don't think we made any secret of that.
Drafting two, albeit one as the "connector", is a bit more controversial. I can see some merit having a conversation about that.
I reckon there is a tendency for people to look at our current 22 and say "what do we need right now" and expect us to draft accordingly. But that is flawed. Trade period is for addressing urgent needs. Drafting is for what you need in 3 to 7 years time.
Drafting two, albeit one as the "connector", is a bit more controversial. I can see some merit having a conversation about that.
I reckon there is a tendency for people to look at our current 22 and say "what do we need right now" and expect us to draft accordingly. But that is flawed. Trade period is for addressing urgent needs. Drafting is for what you need in 3 to 7 years time.
- Aug 10, 2005
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- Brisbane Lions
Clubs don't really draft for needs anyway (at least not as POBT says their immediate needs). Last year we picked up Longer, also this year Carlton and Bulldogs didn't draft any talls while Hawthorn drafted a key forward despite already having two of the best in the game plus Hale and Gunston.
irel
Norm Smith Medallist
Boy oh boy, you certainly got cut up. Well done on expressing your views. At the moment a little imbalanced but you are a Lions supporter so join in and don't be put off by the reaction to your post.
Take heart from the knowledge that since Kerr has been in place as our list manger (replacing G. Allen) he has hardly put a foot wrong. All decisions have carefully, assiduously and plausibly been executed. You may not agree with the logic behind the decisions but so far so good.
Take note with some of the responses to your initial post. Our team just as of this moment is perhaps (IMO) the most balanced that it has been since 2004. The three draftees were selected with a longer term view, anticipating what will happen in the future beyond season 2013 and the direction in which the game is heading.
Yes, we all had our favorites from the young draftees available but ultimately we are not the ones privy to the vision of the football department at our club. All three newcomers to the Pride excite with potential and hope for the future. Do not underestimate any of them as they have been selected by IMO one of the best recruiting team in the league. It is obvious we are selecting with longevity of success in mind. Not just a “One Hit Premiership Year” and then languish rebuilding again for the next ten years.
Put your views forward expect opposition but rest assured for the moment (it is pre-season after all) that next year is full of hope and expectations. We have not played a game yet and as of this moment in mine and everyone’s eyes here we are going to have a bloody fantastic year.
I was emailing a Carlton supporter yesterday and had to come up with a comparison that he might know (I thought Lisle first off but he probably hadn't seen much of him). The guy I came up with was Henderson.
FWIW I know a lot of you are liking the aggression of Close. Personally I do not see that in fact I see him as definately needing to add a physical aspect to his game much as Lisle does. He is not a pack crashing KPF like we need. He might develop into that but at the moment that is not his style.
I was not that enthused with the Close pick. Didn't hate it but just a little disappointed we didn't end up with other guys I rated higher. A lot of the guys I was hoping for went just before him so I realise we couldn't have taken them but didn't stop me being a little put out. I do like a lot of the tools that Close has (good height, endurance and kicking) and think there is potential there and he does seem to fit in with our recruiting focus.
Over the last few years we have focused on adding height across the park, improving our running standards and our kicking. Close ticks all of those boxes and I think the recruiters are backing our development team to improve a few areas that need to be improved.
