2013 All Australian Team Announcement

[Black Diamond]

I actually like the Mackie inclusion. He has been a favourite of mine for a while and he had a very good year. In my opinion for the sake of team balance he should be in the side in place of Mitchell or McVeigh, one of whom should go to the bench.

 

[timtamWB]

Just not seeing how Wingard could be selected over the likes of Motlop, Fyfe and even players like Rockliff and Josh Kennedy. Too much hype in that decision.

Hype, game breaking ability and X factor. Coupled with Port's meteoric rise, icing the Showdown etc. it was pretty much inevitable.

 

[The Joker]

Yep, but this team isn't playing in the finals. What Hawthorn forwards and what Freo defenders would you have included in the side that aren't already in there and who would they replace?

That is beside the point, you do understand the original point dont you?

Also, why is it the best attacking defenders get a spot each year but the best defensive forwards dont?

1st & 3rd = 3 AA's
15th & 18th = 3 AA's

 

[timtamWB]

That is beside the point, you do understand the original point dont you?

Also, why is it the best attacking defenders get a spot each year but the best defensive forwards dont?

1st & 3rd = 3 AA's
15th & 18th = 3 AA's

Would you honestly take out Minson or Griffen?

Would you take out Cameron for someone from Hawthorn? Maybe Chris Mayne, but i'd put Cameron in over him.

So who out of Minson, Griffen, Cameron would you replace? And with who from Freo or Hawthorn?

 

[Lach72]

not sure why majority of people and the media are crying over Fyfe missing out. Very, very good player and on the rise to better things but he's quite honestly a poor user of the footy and has been since the start of his career, like Trent Cotchin, exceptional clearance gatherer but not as effective offensively as some of the other mids picked this year.
Pendlebury, Selwood, Dangerfield, Swan, Ablett, Watson, Boak, they all kicked a goal per game but also contributed by assisting many as well so who you going to take out for his spot?

Coaches Award.
96 Scott Pendlebury (Coll)
95 Gary Ablett (GC)
94 Joel Selwood (Geel)
92 Kieren Jack (Syd)
78 Ryan Griffen (WB)
77 Dane Swan (Coll)
73 Patrick Dangerfield (Adel)
71 Jarryd Roughead (Haw)
70 Daniel Hannebery (Syd)
68 Nathan Fyfe (Fre)

Herald sun Footballer of the year:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...f-the-year-award/story-fni5f22o-1226605467414

23 Gary Ablett (GC)
23 Nathan Fyfe (Frem)
22 Scott Pendlebury (Coll)
22 Patrick.Dangerfield (Adel)
21 Joel Selwood (Geel)
21 Kieren Jack (Syd)
21 Dane Swan (Coll)
20 Dan Hannebery (Syd)
20 Jarryd Roughead (Haw)
19 Trent Cotchin (Rich)

Take your pick

 

[Lach72]

http://finalsiren.com/PlayerCompare...4=&Compare=Add+to+Comparison&SelectedPlayers=

Also this

 

[The_Eagles]

Fyfe should be a dual All Australian by now, robbed. All I can think of is his first few games quiet and then suspended 2, and missed the last game. But I bet they looked at stats and saw he leads Freo for clangers. He's their best player ffs

 

[slvr tl blk wht]

Just not seeing how Wingard could be selected over the likes of Motlop, Fyfe and even players like Rockliff and Josh Kennedy. Too much hype in that decision.

Pretty sure Wingard kicked the most goals (~40) of anyone averaging more than 20 disposals. definitely deserved is spot.

 

[Wargreymon90]

Just not seeing how Wingard could be selected over the likes of Motlop, Fyfe and even players like Rockliff and Josh Kennedy. Too much hype in that decision.

Mitchell as half back is rediculous. Should be in the team but taking the place of others actual half backs as mentioned by many other posters.

I don't see how it's possible not to see it.

 

[nineteen eighty]

...

Herald sun Footballer of the year:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...f-the-year-award/story-fni5f22o-1226605467414

23 Gary Ablett (GC)
23 Nathan Fyfe (Frem)
22 Scott Pendlebury (Coll)
22 Patrick.Dangerfield (Adel)
21 Joel Selwood (Geel)
21 Kieren Jack (Syd)
21 Dane Swan (Coll)
20 Dan Hannebery (Syd)
20 Jarryd Roughead (Haw)
19 Trent Cotchin (Rich)

Take your pick

Nothing to do with the AA but I am absolutely gobsmacked that Trent Cotchin finished in the top 10 for the HS. He had an ok year as a player but no where near that good. No way known was up there with the best this year. He wasn't even in the AA squad FFS.

What's that got to do with your post...nothing other than careful with throwing around their votes as support for your argument.

I don't disagree that Fyfe was unlucky and he was well regarded by the coaches. The Hearald Sun though maybe treat with a sense of skepticism.

 

[Digby_from_Dingley]

Just not seeing how Wingard could be selected over the likes of Motlop, Fyfe and even players like Rockliff and Josh Kennedy. Too much hype in that decision.

Wingard received votes from the coaches in 12 games. Off the top of my head McVeigh and Griffen polled in 14 games, Selwood and Ablett in 13 and Fyfe, Wingard, Pendlebury, Swan, Jack and Roughead in 12 games. That puts him in some pretty good company.

Mitchell as half back is rediculous. Should be in the team but taking the place of others actual half backs as mentioned by many other posters.

Mitchell played most of the year on a half back flank (that's why his tackle, contested posession and clearance numbers were all down 30-40% on last year whilst rebound 50, uncontested posessions, contested marks and spoils all up 40+%.) Only right he gets selected where he plays.

 

[The Joker]

Would you honestly take out Minson or Griffen?

Would you take out Cameron for someone from Hawthorn? Maybe Chris Mayne, but i'd put Cameron in over him.

So who out of Minson, Griffen, Cameron would you replace? And with who from Freo or Hawthorn?

Mention teams in facts then sit and listen to the clan march in shooting blanks. Way to miss the point champ.

 

[yaco55]

Voting in media awards is more suspect than the selection of the AA team.

 

[Bollox]

If you look at stats, Hodge had a bad year. 55th in average championdata points per game.

If you look at football matches and see who has an effect on winning games, then Hodge had a very good year.

Two examples:
Round 12 - 15 posessions 1 goal, 2 tackle, 91 super coach points
Average game statistically but voted best on ground by Ch 7, equal best on ground by The Age, and also in the coaches votes.

Round 22 - 21 posessions (17 uncontested) 0 goals, 3 tackles, 87 super coach points
Average game statistically but voted best on ground by BOTH coaches.


Those that watch games have adjudged him to have a very good season. 9th in the Age Footballer of the year award, 14th in the Herald Sun Player of the Year, 12th in the AFL coaches association award. 8th in the Brownlow. McVeigh was the only defender above him in any of the awards.

Its a pity that the AA selectors are advised by championdata because for players like luke hodge, their influence on the game is not quantified by current statistics.

Coaches Votes
Hodge 62 (10 games polled)
Mackie 14 (3 games polled)

I cant figure this out. Did you set out to exaggerate his season ?
Nat Fyfe finished 2nd in the Heral Sun Award and didnt make the team...Hodge finished 16th but u think its meaningful ? You exaggerated it too..why ? Hodge got the same votes as Tom Rockliff who didnt even make the squad. Barlow was 2nd in The Age award but didnt make it either.
8th in the Brownlow . You got a crystal ball there ? You making this stuff up ? 8th in the Brownlow ? He's at 101/1 alongside 9 guys like Deledio, Rockliff, Cotchin, Martin as well as others that had good seasons but dont really poll well. Mitchell is 5th favorite, Barlow 6th favorite at 31/1 and he didnt make it...where do u get these numbers ? u dont need to exaggerate to make a point

What u arnt taking into account is that Hodge made the squad...to many he was lucky to make the squad. That means top 40 out of over 800 guys...u dont think thats recognition of a good season ? Problem is he just wasnt good enough to be selected as a midfielder, nor good enough to be selected AHEAD OF OTHERS as a back flanker. Mitchell WAS. McVeigh WAS...both played considerable time in that role and to be honest were streets ahead of Hodge's combined HBF and Midfield contributions.
There's no spot for "unrecognised contribution" or "he's just a better footballer than...blah blah" Yes we know he's a better footballer than most but there's no loose criteria for "vital to a top 4 team" or "good captaincy" or "better than he looked". its purely an individual role award.

Personally i think he got recognition...and i agree Mackie's inclusion is a bit rich...but even leaving mackie out there would be the same issue for Hodge..too damn hard to justify final 22 but got recognition. Across halfback Hawthorn and Sydney had very similar issues just to take two of the top 4...Birchall gone and we lost our up and we had issues all season...Mitchell playede a lot across HB early and McVeigh pretty much went there fulltime for a slab of the season. As things went on what i saw was Mitchell getting more time thru the middle and McVeigh started to as well...whilst Hodge seemed to drift back to HB and ended up full time. Mitchell and McVeigh could have come close to making it as midfielders alone...both bloody good seasons, whereas Hodge was more likely to be named HBF and nowhere near it as a Mid. On top of that there were guys like Malceski who even set records for rebound, long kicks and run anc carry from defence...he couldnt even get a look in at HBF despite these being favorite indicators of HB line for a decade or more. Once again i'm with you though...got no idea how Mackie made it ahead of others. On the bench whats the point in putting Mackie there when they could have picked a utility type or a tall ? Yes they could have picked Hodge on a bench but whynot say Riewoldt ?...that guy off the bench could play anything ruck to FB and many thought he should have been picked at CHF. Enright as well i'm suss on too...he wasnt THAT good this season...i picked Gibson at BP.

At no stage thru the yr did i (nor just about every non hawk fan) pick Hodge as a top 2 HBF...it was obvious from halfway that both Mitchell and McVeigh would need to bust a valve to miss out at HBF...and both had brilliant CONSISTENT seasons. When trying to split players and pick in position they end up looking ta their numbers to confirm not just how good, but WHERE they were playing thru the season.Then they seem to try to jam an extra mid or two anywhere they can. I had Swan on the bench, Pendl at RR Jack on wing, Wingard at HFF...had Hannebery fading out of my 22 and picked Fyfe on bench, also had Enright overrated this season and picked Gibson at BP. 3 hawks 2 freo 3 cats 2 swans sounded about right for me. No Mackie...but then couldnt justify Hodge anywhere either. Doesnt mean they didnt have good seasons...they got picked in the squad which was enough. Yes i agree Hodge's season > Mackie's but neither AA for mine...and i saw most of what they did all season. They've had a luv affair with Geelong defenders for years.

 

[Digby_from_Dingley]

I cant figure this out. Did you set out to exaggerate his season ?
Nat Fyfe finished 2nd in the Heral Sun Award and didnt make the team...Hodge finished 16th but u think its meaningful ? You exaggerated it too..why ? Hodge got the same votes as Tom Rockliff who didnt even make the squad. Barlow was 2nd in The Age award but didnt make it either.
8th in the Brownlow . You got a crystal ball there ? You making this stuff up ? 8th in the Brownlow ? He's at 101/1 alongside 9 guys like Deledio, Rockliff, Cotchin, Martin as well as others that had good seasons but dont really poll well. Mitchell is 5th favorite, Barlow 6th favorite at 31/1 and he didnt make it...where do u get these numbers ? u dont need to exaggerate to make a point

What u arnt taking into account is that Hodge made the squad...to many he was lucky to make the squad. That means top 40 out of over 800 guys...u dont think thats recognition of a good season ? Problem is he just wasnt good enough to be selected as a midfielder, nor good enough to be selected AHEAD OF OTHERS as a back flanker. Mitchell WAS. McVeigh WAS...both played considerable time in that role and to be honest were streets ahead of Hodge's combined HBF and Midfield contributions.
There's no spot for "unrecognised contribution" or "he's just a better footballer than...blah blah" Yes we know he's a better footballer than most but there's no loose criteria for "vital to a top 4 team" or "good captaincy" or "better than he looked". its purely an individual role award.

Personally i think he got recognition...and i agree Mackie's inclusion is a bit rich...but even leaving mackie out there would be the same issue for Hodge..too damn hard to justify final 22 but got recognition. Across halfback Hawthorn and Sydney had very similar issues just to take two of the top 4...Birchall gone and we lost our up and we had issues all season...Mitchell playede a lot across HB early and McVeigh pretty much went there fulltime for a slab of the season. As things went on what i saw was Mitchell getting more time thru the middle and McVeigh started to as well...whilst Hodge seemed to drift back to HB and ended up full time. Mitchell and McVeigh could have come close to making it as midfielders alone...both bloody good seasons, whereas Hodge was more likely to be named HBF and nowhere near it as a Mid. On top of that there were guys like Malceski who even set records for rebound, long kicks and run anc carry from defence...he couldnt even get a look in at HBF despite these being favorite indicators of HB line for a decade or more. Once again i'm with you though...got no idea how Mackie made it ahead of others. On the bench whats the point in putting Mackie there when they could have picked a utility type or a tall ? Yes they could have picked Hodge on a bench but whynot say Riewoldt ?...that guy off the bench could play anything ruck to FB and many thought he should have been picked at CHF. Enright as well i'm suss on too...he wasnt THAT good this season...i picked Gibson at BP.

At no stage thru the yr did i (nor just about every non hawk fan) pick Hodge as a top 2 HBF...it was obvious from halfway that both Mitchell and McVeigh would need to bust a valve to miss out at HBF...and both had brilliant CONSISTENT seasons. When trying to split players and pick in position they end up looking ta their numbers to confirm not just how good, but WHERE they were playing thru the season.Then they seem to try to jam an extra mid or two anywhere they can. I had Swan on the bench, Pendl at RR Jack on wing, Wingard at HFF...had Hannebery fading out of my 22 and picked Fyfe on bench, also had Enright overrated this season and picked Gibson at BP. 3 hawks 2 freo 3 cats 2 swans sounded about right for me. No Mackie...but then couldnt justify Hodge anywhere either. Doesnt mean they didnt have good seasons...they got picked in the squad which was enough. Yes i agree Hodge's season > Mackie's but neither AA for mine...and i saw most of what they did all season. They've had a luv affair with Geelong defenders for years.

I thought Hodge had a better year than Mackie.

And I think that consitency as a concept is mis-used and over-rated. Because the better you are, the harder it is to be consistent.

 

[Digby_from_Dingley]

I cant figure this out. Did you set out to exaggerate his season ?
Nat Fyfe finished 2nd in the Heral Sun Award and didnt make the team...Hodge finished 16th but u think its meaningful ? You exaggerated it too..why ? Hodge got the same votes as Tom Rockliff who didnt even make the squad. Barlow was 2nd in The Age award but didnt make it either.
8th in the Brownlow . You got a crystal ball there ? You making this stuff up ? 8th in the Brownlow ? He's at 101/1 alongside 9 guys like Deledio, Rockliff, Cotchin, Martin as well as others that had good seasons but dont really poll well. Mitchell is 5th favorite, Barlow 6th favorite at 31/1 and he didnt make it...where do u get these numbers ? u dont need to exaggerate to make a point

What u arnt taking into account is that Hodge made the squad...to many he was lucky to make the squad. That means top 40 out of over 800 guys...u dont think thats recognition of a good season ? Problem is he just wasnt good enough to be selected as a midfielder, nor good enough to be selected AHEAD OF OTHERS as a back flanker. Mitchell WAS. McVeigh WAS...both played considerable time in that role and to be honest were streets ahead of Hodge's combined HBF and Midfield contributions.
There's no spot for "unrecognised contribution" or "he's just a better footballer than...blah blah" Yes we know he's a better footballer than most but there's no loose criteria for "vital to a top 4 team" or "good captaincy" or "better than he looked". its purely an individual role award.

Personally i think he got recognition...and i agree Mackie's inclusion is a bit rich...but even leaving mackie out there would be the same issue for Hodge..too damn hard to justify final 22 but got recognition. Across halfback Hawthorn and Sydney had very similar issues just to take two of the top 4...Birchall gone and we lost our up and we had issues all season...Mitchell playede a lot across HB early and McVeigh pretty much went there fulltime for a slab of the season. As things went on what i saw was Mitchell getting more time thru the middle and McVeigh started to as well...whilst Hodge seemed to drift back to HB and ended up full time. Mitchell and McVeigh could have come close to making it as midfielders alone...both bloody good seasons, whereas Hodge was more likely to be named HBF and nowhere near it as a Mid. On top of that there were guys like Malceski who even set records for rebound, long kicks and run anc carry from defence...he couldnt even get a look in at HBF despite these being favorite indicators of HB line for a decade or more. Once again i'm with you though...got no idea how Mackie made it ahead of others. On the bench whats the point in putting Mackie there when they could have picked a utility type or a tall ? Yes they could have picked Hodge on a bench but whynot say Riewoldt ?...that guy off the bench could play anything ruck to FB and many thought he should have been picked at CHF. Enright as well i'm suss on too...he wasnt THAT good this season...i picked Gibson at BP.

At no stage thru the yr did i (nor just about every non hawk fan) pick Hodge as a top 2 HBF...it was obvious from halfway that both Mitchell and McVeigh would need to bust a valve to miss out at HBF...and both had brilliant CONSISTENT seasons. When trying to split players and pick in position they end up looking ta their numbers to confirm not just how good, but WHERE they were playing thru the season.Then they seem to try to jam an extra mid or two anywhere they can. I had Swan on the bench, Pendl at RR Jack on wing, Wingard at HFF...had Hannebery fading out of my 22 and picked Fyfe on bench, also had Enright overrated this season and picked Gibson at BP. 3 hawks 2 freo 3 cats 2 swans sounded about right for me. No Mackie...but then couldnt justify Hodge anywhere either. Doesnt mean they didnt have good seasons...they got picked in the squad which was enough. Yes i agree Hodge's season > Mackie's but neither AA for mine...and i saw most of what they did all season. They've had a luv affair with Geelong defenders for years.

I thought Hodge had a better year than Mackie.

And I think that consitency as a concept is mis-used and over-rated. Because the better you are, the harder it is to be consistent.

 

[Power Raid]

I am just happy that PAFC is back on the radar

 

[Dr Awkward]

I think the team was pretty good, with only 2 really clear cut errors IMO, that being Fyfe's non-selection and Mackie's selection, which was truly baffling. Couldn't believe he made the squad.

Aside from that I personally would have had Thomas and N. Riewoldt in, in place of Cameron and Hannebery, but I can live with those ones.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Just not seeing how Wingard could be selected over the likes of Motlop, Fyfe and even players like Rockliff and Josh Kennedy. Too much hype in that decision.

Lolwat? This year Chad Wingard kicked over 40 goals while averaging over 20 disposals. Here's the list of all the other players who did that this year.

• ..

And here's a list of all the players who did it in 2012.

• .

But what's that you say? His stats might be good, but does he actually impact games? Does he stand up when it counts? Well, let's see. Three Q4 goals in the first Showdown against Adelaide. The sealing goal in our win against Sydney. Three Q4 goals AGAIN (making it 5 all up in that game) in the second Showdown, including the winner with 30 seconds left on the clock. And the sealing goal in our elimination final win over Collingwood.

The irony of claiming too much hype in that decision and then suggesting Steven Motlop as a replacement is delicious, by the way.

 

[HirdyLannister]

I was surprised Motlop was even named in the squad, I would of had Stokes in the 40 man squad instead of Motlop .

 

[chinggis77]

Hanneberry and Jack over Fyfe. FMD.

Jack 11 poss, Hanneberry 14.

Fyfe 27, 1 goal, 6 clearances, 4 contested marks despite being tagged by O´Keefe who himself could only get 17 ineffectual disposals.

Yes the AA is based on the H&A season, but even based on the H&A season Fyfe was better.

Guess a Premiership medallion will have to do.

 

[Righteo]

Fyfe kicked 2 goals.

 

[Chewy]

LOL. Kieren Jack was fantastic all year, one of the players of the season, but he did seem to slow down a bit over the last few weeks (possibly carrying some type of niggle?)

Hannebery had a great first half of the year. He was awesome. But he got a few injuries and wasn't as effective over the last 10 rounds. I think he was unlucky to get injured, but lucky to be named Al Australian, if that makes sense.

I'd definitely select Fyfe ahead of Hannebery or Mackie

KB did say that Nathan Fyfe was the most unlucky player to miss out. He was just pipped in the final vote and could be regarded as "1at emergency"

----------------------------------

Just one Docker and two Hawks in the All Australian team. This is surely a record low for Grand Final participants and reflects badly on the selectors, I think. I reckon they were stuck on the idea that Geelong and Sydney were the best sides. Fremantle and Hawthorn are the best teams of 2013 and probably should've had more representation. Nobody would've batted an eyelid if Gibson or Hodge was included in the backline and Fyfe at half forward (or bench)

People say it's an individual award and not about teams. While that's true in theory, it's also bullshit. If you look at EVERY All Australian team they've ever selected, it's dominated by teams at the top of the ladder, with fewer and fewer All Australians, the further down the ladder you go.

There are many great footballers who get overlooked because their team sucks and their good play goes unrecognised, or they're up against it & trying to beat 2 opponents, etc. It's a fact of life that when a team has success, the individual awards follow. This is the way it's always been. It doesn't surprise me that Hawthorn and Fremantle have great years and have only 3 All Australians. You can bet it wouldn't happen if Collingwood and West Coast finished 1st and 3rd.

I think with some selectors and "amateur selectors", it often comes down to how much TV exposure and hype that players receive. I thought Hodge had a great year and I was surprised by the number if people who said otherwise. But then I remembered I watch every Hawthorn game, whereas people often make comments about Hawthorn players when they've only watched 6 or 7 or 8 of our games. Hodge gave a few BOG performances in Fox footy games watched by only 90k-100k and was quiet in a few of our Friday night games watched by 750,000. So maybe this is why people might have a difference over players.

Bruce and Dennis tend to pump up the star players, so it probably helps to play a lot of Friday night footy

 

[longsuffreosupp]

Hanneberry and Jack over Fyfe. FMD.

Jack 11 poss, Hanneberry 14.

Fyfe 27, 1 goal, 6 clearances, 4 contested marks despite being tagged by O´Keefe who himself could only get 17 ineffectual disposals.

Yes the AA is based on the H&A season, but even based on the H&A season Fyfe was better.

Guess a Premiership medallion will have to do.

You forgot to mention interchange superstar Mackie. When the game was up for grabs he got butt raped by Burgoyne.

 

[Ron The Bear]

You forgot to mention interchange superstar Mackie. When the game was up for grabs he got butt raped by Burgoyne.

As a neutral I actually thought Mackie had a great game until the goal where he slipped over (even then he did well to spoil). Lots of important one-percenters that don't go on the stats sheet.