2014 Draft Discussion

[acuguy]

Just remember when assessing players outside the top 25-30 draft picks recruiters either select players they feel can play immediately but might have flaws in their game/athleticism to become stars- see Lewis Taylor- height or they go for athletic animals who they think they can develop. This is often why players who might be good Under 18 players get overlooked. They are deemed neither ready to play early and don't have that athletic animal about them.

The mail on Uebergang is that athletically he is out of this world and has played some decent footy at the championships. He is also developing his football experience. Remember Daniel Merrett was drafted at the Lions over Paul Shelton even though Shelton was one of the dominant mids and an All Australian under age selection.

Just on Keays, he is going to be a real chance to go early next year (massive news I know) a penetrating accurate left foot, gets plenty of it and knows where to go. Sounds like a Hawthorn or Sydney style recruit. Let's just hope we adopt that mantra of picking guys who can really kick the ball, especially when transitioning from the backline.

 

[Scubaveg]

I find the number of opinions frequently outnumber the number of arseholes people have though, unfortunately.

It does seem though there is an increasing number of arseholes in this world.

 

[whatboutbob]

Do you think that if for example Hawthorn or Fremantle (late 1st round) nominated Hammelmann, that Brisbane would match that with using their second pick without question?

You seem to spend a lot of time talking about Hammelmann. Going to stick with your story that it is because a mate saw him play?

Good luck to the kid. Hope he ends up at the Lions, and not just because he'll be close to his family.

 

[The Wight Nite]

Not a massive contributor on here, but if what I read is correct, and Peter Wright is more of a ruckman than a forward...then I say get the best available midfielder with our first pick.

Now I've never seen Wright play, and I don't have a friend of a friend who knows his uncle, but do we really need to pick up another ruckman with a Pick 2-5?

I've read the examples of Kurt Tippett and Brad Ottens, which would be greatif accurate, but can you name me three other GENUINE ruck/forwards from the past 10 years who have shown a GENUINE ability to play well in both areas?

Mitch Clark was probably one, but I struggle to find too many more.

 

[Luke Kathutian]

And that's whats great about Big Footy everyone has an opinion, we don't always have to agree but it sparks healthy debate doesn't it.

Love to hear from others to see where they are at, 3 wins or Wright or McCartin?

Wright or McCartin for me. Petracca would be ok if we can trade for a QUALITY kpf. But I dont think we can.

Without wright or mccartin we might still develop into a half decent side but we wont be thinking top 4. With the likes of say wright, close and hammelmann we can start to build towards that top 4 in a couple years.

 

[jackess]

It's really not the end of the world who we pick with that first selection. I'm still thinking take the best available.

 

[dlanod]

Not a massive contributor on here, but if what I read is correct, and Peter Wright is more of a ruckman than a forward...then I say get the best available midfielder with our first pick.

Now I've never seen Wright play, and I don't have a friend of a friend who knows his uncle, but do we really need to pick up another ruckman with a Pick 2-5?

As you acknowledge, ou're making the assumption that he's more of a ruckman than a forward. He was played largely as a ruckman in the Championships because they had no other options, but this is also a guy who kicked six goals in a half in the TAC Cup earlier this year. He'd probably be better regarded if he'd been played up forward more in the Champs, because more clubs want a KPF than want a ruck.

I've read the examples of Kurt Tippett and Brad Ottens, which would be greatif accurate, but can you name me three other GENUINE ruck/forwards from the past 10 years who have shown a GENUINE ability to play well in both areas?

Mitch Clark was probably one, but I struggle to find too many more.

Petrie.
Ryder.
Goodes.

 

[Billy Puller]

As you acknowledge, ou're making the assumption that he's more of a ruckman than a forward. He was played largely as a ruckman in the Championships because they had no other options, but this is also a guy who kicked six goals in a half in the TAC Cup earlier this year. He'd probably be better regarded if he'd been played up forward more in the Champs, because more clubs want a KPF than want a ruck.



Petrie.
Ryder.
Goodes.

Goodes isn't just a ruck forward that guy can play Back, forward on the ball and ruck. Him and Pav would be the most versatile players I have ever seen. Granted thats only a good 18 years of viewing.

 

[winged1]

Petrie.
Ryder.
Goodes.

Hale

 

[KissKiss]

It's really not the end of the world who we pick with that first selection. I'm still thinking take the best available.

I'd mostly say best available but also think how we rate Hammelmann might dictate if we lean towards the KPF or the mid

 

[jjami15]

As you acknowledge, ou're making the assumption that he's more of a ruckman than a forward. He was played largely as a ruckman in the Championships because they had no other options, but this is also a guy who kicked six goals in a half in the TAC Cup earlier this year. He'd probably be better regarded if he'd been played up forward more in the Champs, because more clubs want a KPF than want a ruck.

This has definitely swayed everyone's thinking of Wrights natural position. I'm looking forward to him going back to the TAC Cup and playing back forward to see what he produces. He is leading the goal kicking which says something about his ability.

It might sound strange but if we were to basically take KPP's (including a prospective KPD) this draft then so be it. Go from a bare cupboard in the last few years to almost overflowing and have internal competition for spots. We will most probably take Dawson as well who is being spoken of as a tall midfielder just to add to the midfield.

We have tried to land the bigfish and landed small fry KPP so I think it's time to grow our own. Look at Casboult, who would have thought!

 

[BuntonRules]

This has definitely swayed everyone's thinking of Wrights natural position. I'm looking forward to him going back to the TAC Cup and playing back forward to see what he produces. He is leading the goal kicking which says something about his ability.!

Is in the best 2 KPF in the draft, with the bonus he can ruck if needed. No brainer to me.

 

[knaf]

I think Hammelman will need to put in a few really strong performances during the last part of this year as he seems to struggle against the bigger more matured bodies. He needs to prove that he can compete at a high level against men. i think the lions will tend to lean more towards Ubergang and Dawson as their academy draftees. they seem to be the further along in their development and the lions need someone to step up into a key forwards role as soon as possible.

Welcome aboard M14. It is general protocol on this board for posters first post to be acknowledged and welcomed. Your contribution appears to have been overlooked.

I for one would welcome further input particularly if you have seen these guys play.

 

[chopperduck]

I have to agree. Champs he was used more as a ruck than he did those first few TAC Cup games, so i'm keen to see what he can do the rest of the year. The one thing that usually stops rucks from being half decent forward prospects is that their kicking is horrible, they spray shots at goal, and their marking usually isn't great. They also usually have pretty average coordination. Wright when he has played forward has taken nice strong marks, at the highest point like any good forward would. He has kicked many goals, included plenty from outside 50, which means he can kick a goal. TBH he might not end up being in the top 5 KPF in the next 10 years, but he will probably be in the top 10. That is good enough for me.

 

[Ironmonger]

Not a massive contributor on here, but if what I read is correct, and Peter Wright is more of a ruckman than a forward...then I say get the best available midfielder with our first pick.

Now I've never seen Wright play, and I don't have a friend of a friend who knows his uncle, but do we really need to pick up another ruckman with a Pick 2-5?

I've read the examples of Kurt Tippett and Brad Ottens, which would be greatif accurate, but can you name me three other GENUINE ruck/forwards from the past 10 years who have shown a GENUINE ability to play well in both areas?

Mitch Clark was probably one, but I struggle to find too many more.

I agree with knaf.

And I agree with this post. It's not like 200cm forwards never work, but they often seem to be riskier options. It's not easy at that height to do all the things modern forwards are required to do, and then change in the ruck as well, and keep your body right.

If we use a high pick in Wright, it has to be on the basis of his potential as a forward, and not as a ruck/forward. Considering the rotten injury records our poor rucks have slamming their knees into the hard Gabba centre wicket why would we make such a big investment to fix a major area of weakness only to expose them to that kind of risk?

 

[Quigley]

Plenty of 200cm forwards have been coming through of late. 200cm the new 195.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Two of the Qld U18's are 205 - so add 5 for up North. 200 is a flanker.

 

[Ironmonger]

Plenty of 200cm forwards have been coming through of late. 200cm the new 195.

Plenty have come through the juniors. Not many have made a real impact at senior level yet. Even fewer than that again have done so without developing long term injury problems.

Like I said, it's not like it can't be done, it's just that forwards at that height seem to come with extra risks.

Not being a draft watcher I don't really know what is driving the focus on ever taller forwards. It might be both the supply from the juniors and the demand from the senior clubs. But I reckon there'll be a correction back at some point.

Ultimately there's just a very small pool of young athletes around that height. Your chances of getting a good key forward are likely to be exponentially better if you're prepared to take someone 5cm shorter.

 

[Dom PC]

Plenty of 200cm forwards have been coming through of late. 200cm the new 195.

Just regarding that Quig. surely there is an optimum height for tall forwards in the AFL? If so, what do you think it is for a KPF/KPD?

In my uneducated AFL opinion, I'd argue that the height (196cm) and size (101kg) of Lance Franklin is the perfect tall forward. He is big enough to take a contested mark and crash packs, quick enough on the lead to out run most midfielders and mobile enough to tackle smaller players. So once you go over those boundaries, you take away from one or more of those attributes.

Jeremy Cameron is another player I'd put in Franklin's ilk.

Or are tall forwards the size of Boyd, Daniher and Wright really capable of having the same attributes as a Franklin or Cameron?

 

[acuguy]

I don't think we can wait 4-6 years for our next quality tall. We should take the best mid available and then buy ourselves a key forward!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can't take the heart ache of getting a Wright only for his body to struggle with the rigours of AFL footy for the next 5 years.

 

[POBT]

^^^^^^

I can't possibly think where that solution might fail.

 

[Ironmonger]

^^^^^^

I can't possibly think where that solution might fail.

Yeah, if history has taught us anything, it's that it's easy for struggling teams to go out and simply acquire proven key forwards by waving a chequebook at them.

 

[jackess]

Just wait until Buddy's contract is about to expire and go after him.

 

[acuguy]

My hesitation comes from the fact that McCartin seems like the real elite key forward. Wright sounds and looks like a ruck forward. I would prefer us to get as much elite midfield talent on the park and then work our guts out to buy a key forward. We are in an unreal market place where 2 clubs have been able to squirrel away the best tall talent in the land for 2 years. They will be willing to move for dollars and opportunity- Jaschk is an example

 

[POBT]

The problem is that dollars and opportunity aren't the only factors. We're arguably dead last on the ladder in terms of desirable football destinations. That can't be countered by bigger contracts.

And, as has been repeatedly said on this thread, very few people want Wright if he's a ruck who can push forward.

Given the evenness of the draft cohort at the top end, my gut feel is that late season form and the combine are going to be crucial this year. It won't take much for a player to climb or slide the draft rankings in the 2nd half of the year.