Universal Love 2016/2017 Pre-season Thread

[marty36]

It's the coaches and selectors who rate Mackay's AFL performances extremely lowly - it's not just a few posters on here.

What baffles most of us is that Mackay's B&F results are those of a fringe player who gets dropped repeatedly whereas the attitude towards him regarding selection is as though he's a multiple Brownlow medal winning champion.

There is something askew at the club regarding our senior players.

I think you may be over exaggerating. He is in and out of the team his competition if you look at it were like him, in and out fringe players, he wasn't keeping a superstar out of the team.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I think you may be over exaggerating. He is in and out of the team his competition if you look at it were like him, in and out fringe players, he wasn't keeping a superstar out of the team.

Among others, he's keeping first round draftees out, the likes of which we apparently cannot survive without - hence no Gibbs

 

[marty36]

Among others, he's keeping first round draftees out, the likes of which we apparently cannot survive without - hence no Gibbs

Good point

But what will those first rounders offer the team, obviously not ready in the coaches views, who is picking people on who he believes will win games

And going on last years results the coach did his job well

 

[GreyCrow]

Good point

But what will those first rounders offer the team, obviously not ready in the coaches views, who is picking people on who he believes will win games

And going on last years results the coach did his job well

Actually it will be this years results which will be a reflection on last years coaching.

If Mackay shines then his keeping him in the side is a master stroke. If players are injured or don't perform, and those untried players from last year, who might have had games, don't perform either or perform well below a level. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

And it wasn't only Mackay, there was a lot of discussion over Thompson and his need for a rest.

 

[marty36]

Actually it will be this years results which will be a reflection on last years coaching.

If Mackay shines then his keeping him in the side is a master stroke. If players are injured or don't perform, and those untried players from last year, who might have had games, don't perform either or perform well below a level. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

And it wasn't only Mackay, there was a lot of discussion over Thompson and his need for a rest.

As in life your only as good as your last result, unfortunately for coaches they need consistent results, well Pyke especially as we have an expectation of where we want our team to finish. Different to say Bolton who is in a rebuild mode and can experiment with those untried and unproven players he has, he can afford to play a number of draftees and if they don't cut it and cost him games it's not going to put his job on the line, Pyke is being driven by expectation

 

[1970crow]

It's the coaches and selectors who rate Mackay's AFL performances extremely lowly - it's not just a few posters on here.

What baffles most of us is that Mackay's B&F results are those of a fringe player who gets dropped repeatedly whereas the attitude towards him regarding selection is as though he's a multiple Brownlow medal winning champion.

There is something askew at the club regarding our senior players.

The idea that training outweighs SANFL performances is rubbish. Unless it just happens that the best trainers just happen to be the best SANFL performers. Because whenever a player comes up from the SANFL, they're either a returning AFL performer or the player in the best SANFL form. It's just another example of bulkshit being manufactured to explain the gold pass system for mediocre experience holding their spot despite shitful form.

 

[Mismatched]

Glad to hear the reports of Menzel and Hampton impressing at training. As has bee reported these are two with absolute A-Grade potential who would instantly improve our side if they hit their straps. Also glad to hear Hamptons in the middle, its where we have a need for fast, solidly built players with skill and spread which he offers. Sounds like he's been harassing the coaches for a shot in the midfield and he's going to give it his all to prove himself right.

 

[marty36]

Glad to hear the reports of Menzel and Hampton impressing at training. As has bee reported these are two with absolute A-Grade potential who would instantly improve our side if they hit their straps. Also glad to hear Hamptons in the middle, its where we have a need for fast, solidly built players with skill and spread which he offers. Sounds like he's been harassing the coaches for a shot in the midfield and he's going to give it his all to prove himself right.

These two clearly could be the improvement we are looking for this year. Having watched Menzel in his early AFL games he showed an enormous about of ability and as proven last year a less amount of application. He sounds like he now has the balance right, who knows could he be the next elite player at ADelaide, I hope so, because we need one to take us to the next level.

 

[1990crow]

Glad to hear the reports of Menzel and Hampton impressing at training. As has bee reported these are two with absolute A-Grade potential who would instantly improve our side if they hit their straps. Also glad to hear Hamptons in the middle, its where we have a need for fast, solidly built players with skill and spread which he offers. Sounds like he's been harassing the coaches for a shot in the midfield and he's going to give it his all to prove himself right.

Yeah I'm stoked. If Mackay gets picked ahead of Hampton I will give up.
Menzel needs to prove himself in a couple of preseason games I think. Not so obvious who he gets picked ahead of.

 

[Mismatched]

Yeah I'm stoked. If Mackay gets picked ahead of Hampton I will give up.
Menzel needs to prove himself in a couple of preseason games I think. Not so obvious who he gets picked ahead of.

Yeah, I think Mackays spot is possibly were Hampton should be looking. Mackay spent a lot of time in the square in 2016 as we looked for some pace and spread and clean delivery from clearances. Unfortunately it was hardly a success. Well also be looking to replace Lyons and possibly Thommo from the set up, so certainly spots up for grabs.

I think Dougies going to be taken out of the forward set up and Cameron will spend more time on the wing, which will allow Menzel a position as a half forward. We might also push McGovern and Lynch up to the wing at times.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Yeah, I think Mackays spot is possibly were Hampton should be looking. Mackay spent a lot of time in the square in 2016 as we looked for some pace and spread and clean delivery from clearances. Unfortunately it was hardly a success. Well also be looking to replace Lyons and possibly Thommo from the set up, so certainly spots up for grabs.

I think Dougies going to be taken out of the forward set up and Cameron will spend more time on the wing, which will allow Menzel a position as a half forward. We might also push McGovern and Lynch up to the wing at times.

Won't be exact replacements, as we are looking to have deeper rotations with increased flexibility.

Knight, Hampton & Menzel as probable ins.
Lyons, Mackay & Thompson as probable outs.

Hampton looking like a replacement for Thommo, but expect will be inside & outside, as we play more dual mids & 1 less pure insider. Think we will see more of Douglas, Atkins, Knight, Smith, etc increasing their inside minutes.

Menzel replaces Lyons up forward, but will be more outside than Lyons if in the midfield, with others covering Lyons on the inside.

Knight for Mackay gives us that hard gut running player, but more intent.

Would like to see CC & Gov given decent minutes off a wing.

 

[Elite Crow]

Won't be exact replacements, as we are looking to have deeper rotations with increased flexibility.

Knight, Hampton & Menzel as probable ins.
Lyons, Mackay & Thompson as probable outs.

Hampton looking like a replacement for Thommo, but expect will be inside & outside, as we play more dual mids & 1 less pure insider. Think we will see more of Douglas, Atkins, Knight, Smith, etc increasing their inside minutes.

Menzel replaces Lyons up forward, but will be more outside than Lyons if in the midfield, with others covering Lyons on the inside.

Knight for Mackay gives us that hard gut running player, but more intent.

Would like to see CC & Gov given decent minutes off a wing.

Lyons was more midfield than forward, Menzel should replace Douglas.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Lyons was more midfield than forward, Menzel should replace Douglas.

Imo, Lyons was 60%+ in the forward line, but should have been on ball more.

Agree, Douglas should be more on ball, freeing up a forward spot for Menzel

As I mentioned before, won't be like for like replacements.

 

[Jack is Back]

A few myths in this thread.

Mackay had a small number of centre square involvements, mostly in the first half of the year. He played 90% of his TOG on the wing, 8% as a defender, less than 2% as an inside midfielder.

We rotated Seedsman, Mackay and Atkins on the wing in the first half of the season. Following Seedsman's injury we used two wingmen, Mackay (except for one game in defence) and Atkins and used Sloane, Brad Crouch and Dougie to soak up the balance of outside mids TOG.

So... I will be more than a little surprised if Hampton who played almost all his time off halfback in the Twos and is training as an inside mid will replace Mackay as an outside mid. If we play two outside mids this year the contenders are The RAT, The SEED, Bran Nue Mackae, Knight, Charlie, Dougie and Milera.

IMHO Hampton is in a showdown with Thommo, CEY and Wigg for an spot as an inside mid. I expect that our improvement will come from our outside mids more than our inside mids.

 

[1970crow]

Mackay set up a fair bit just outside the contested area. My guess is that he was meant to provide the speed out of a stoppage once our grunts had won the ball. Inside, inside/outside, outside, it doesn't matter, he's just a bog average performer. Hampton playing inside mid late last year doesn't necessarily mean he's being pigeon-holed into a Thommo replacement or bust scenario. He's obviously got an outside game, so best way to develop him into inside/outside is get him to punch out minutes as an insider. That's where his development has lacked thus far.

 

[MRB37]

A few myths in this thread.

Mackay had a small number of centre square involvements, mostly in the first half of the year. He played 90% of his TOG on the wing, 8% as a defender, less than 2% as an inside midfielder.

We rotated Seedsman, Mackay and Atkins on the wing in the first half of the season. Following Seedsman's injury we used two wingmen, Mackay (except for one game in defence) and Atkins and used Sloane, Brad Crouch and Dougie to soak up the balance of outside mids TOG.

So... I will be more than a little surprised if Hampton who played almost all his time off halfback in the Twos and is training as an inside mid will replace Mackay as an outside mid. If we play two outside mids this year the contenders are The RAT, The SEED, Bran Nue Mackae, Knight, Charlie, Dougie and Milera.

IMHO Hampton is in a showdown with Thommo, CEY and Wigg for an spot as an inside mid. I expect that our improvement will come from our outside mids more than our inside mids.

Set up the kids for failure if they have them competing for a spot with Thommo since he has an iron grip on his place in the side.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Won't be exact replacements, as we are looking to have deeper rotations with increased flexibility.

Knight, Hampton & Menzel as probable ins.
Lyons, Mackay & Thompson as probable outs.

Hampton looking like a replacement for Thommo, but expect will be inside & outside, as we play more dual mids & 1 less pure insider. Think we will see more of Douglas, Atkins, Knight, Smith, etc increasing their inside minutes.

Menzel replaces Lyons up forward, but will be more outside than Lyons if in the midfield, with others covering Lyons on the inside.

Knight for Mackay gives us that hard gut running player, but more intent.

Would like to see CC & Gov given decent minutes off a wing.

Milera is miles ahead of Menzel and Hampton as a first round draft talent but also as a short and long term option for those spots

 

[1970crow]

Milera is miles ahead of Menzel and Hampton as a first round draft talent but also as a short and long term option for those spots

Not sure on Menzel, the advantage he should have had is underlying conditioning, but he arrived with zilch. But he's got shit tins of talent, I can't see Milera being a certainty to have his measure in that department.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Menzel's issue is that the position he's shown aptitude for at AFL level is as a deep forward. There's no spot there with us, which is why we're trying to turn him into a high half forward/winger. Not sure I saw any sign of success with this last year.

 

[mistylake]

Yeah I'm stoked. If Mackay gets picked ahead of Hampton I will give up.
Menzel needs to prove himself in a couple of preseason games I think. Not so obvious who he gets picked ahead of.

Would we describe Menzel as being a bit like a Robbie Gray type?
I haven't seen him play.

 

[Scorpus]

Would we describe Menzel as being a bit like a Robbie Gray type?
I haven't seen him play.

No.

Gray gets a lot more ball around the contest than Menzel. Menzel is more of a Stevie J type forward with fantastic goal sense and the ability to pinch hit at half forward and sometimes in the middle/wing

 

[RodnyDangrfield]

Menzel's issue is that the position he's shown aptitude for at AFL level is as a deep forward. There's no spot there with us, which is why we're trying to turn him into a high half forward/winger. Not sure I saw any sign of success with this last year.

Didn't watch long enough unfortunately then DABM. Showed real aptitude as a Mid/Winger in the last 5 weeks of the season once he built a tank and some continuity. Will be a good Wing/Mid/Half Forward in the rotations with sloane and brad crouch.

 

[Grenville]

A few myths in this thread.

Mackay had a small number of centre square involvements, mostly in the first half of the year. He played 90% of his TOG on the wing, 8% as a defender, less than 2% as an inside midfielder.

Guessing this is just an estimation, but if you know where detailed data like this is publicly available I'd love to know mate?

 

[marty36]

Would we describe Menzel as being a bit like a Robbie Gray type?
I haven't seen him play.

You could be right, Gray didn't get going for a few years probably not until after he did his knee, Menzel probably showed more in his first 50 than Gray actually

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Moving on Lyons and sliding Douglas to half back possibly indicates we're trying to squeeze Milera and Menzel and possibly Knight into the team somehow.