List Mgmt. 2016 Free Agency/Trades/Draft thread Part 2

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Here here.

Can't see how people still only see him as 'home brand vanilla' happily selling him off for not much in return.

Consistent ball winning, clearances, tackles, marks, metres gained, goals…what more do we want?!?!

Is he going to play midfield for us or predominantly as a half forward?

If it's the former, great. Keep him.

If it's the latter then play Milera, trade Lyons.

 

[baldandbroke]

Criminal how underrated Lyons is amongst his own fanbase.

Calling it - if the club offloads him and he's given significant minutes in the middle at his new club then he'll prove himself to be an exceptional AFL footballer.

If we push this bloke out and then commit to Thompson for another year then it may just be the straw that breaks the camels back.

I'd say it's amazing how some fans can't see that you lose some players if you want to be ruthless and push for a Premiership. I think the Lyons situation is a bit like Cheney.

Hawks traded out Cheney (and Lowden) for an upgrade to pick 31. Why trade out a solid backman like Cheney for such a small upgrade? He is better than average, why wouldn't the Hawks continue with him? Well, they brought in a bloke called Frawley as a free agent - so they knew that Cheney was going to be worth very very little to their AFL 22. The guy they got with pick 31 (Howe) is a young tall rebounding defender with great disposal efficiency. They had a plan that meant they didn't need Cheney - so they got what they could for him and attempted to improve their list.

Hawks did the same with Anderson last year - everyone rated him, he played a lot of games for North - Hawks upgraded to pick 15 that they used on Burton.

We need to keep improving our list. That means getting better players in, and better picks. You can't keep hoping that pick 44 turns into Sloane. Use the trade, get free agents, upgrade at every opportunity.

 

[Crouch#44]

Are you punting or do you know?

I read this days ago and blew it off but now I'm second guessing with more whispers drifting through

1/18 good punt, wish I could punt on McGovern and freo

 

[Elite Crow]

EC, clubs with an academy / father son coming using their early picks on these players from the draft before we have our selection is actually a good thing. If they are being forced to use a higher pick on a player we never had a chance to get ... that actually increases our options.

We want our pick to get pushed as far down as possible.

It's good that their having to pay fair price but theirs no doubt that our pick gets pushed back and 29 will become approximately the 35th player picked in the draft

 

[FAITH]

we have a pretty competent list management team now days, so im pretty confident they know what theyre doing.

not sure on CEY whats happening there, but Grigg to Port or Carton seems like it will happen.

 

[Thewlis Dish]

It's good that their having to pay fair price but theirs no doubt that our pick gets pushed back and 29 will become approximately the 35th player picked in the draft

If you assume the academy and father sons are going to the clubs they are eligible for anyway, you're still picking 29th in the available pool of players, even if the pick says 35.

 

[Jedistar]

we have a pretty competent list management team now days, so im pretty confident they know what theyre doing.

not sure on CEY whats happening there, but Grigg to Port or Carton seems like it will happen.

don't know why the lack of faith with Grigg as he had a great pre-season

 

[1990crow]

we have a pretty competent list management team now days, so im pretty confident they know what theyre doing.

not sure on CEY whats happening there, but Grigg to Port or Carton seems like it will happen.

If we pick up a third rounder it's a bonus.

 

[Elite Crow]

If you assume the academy and father sons are going to the clubs they are eligible for anyway, you're still picking 29th in the available pool of players, even if the pick says 35.

I get that, but talent wise there is no doubt our pick us pushed back.

 

[1990crow]

don't know why the lack of faith with Grigg as he had a great pre-season

Because he's worse than our 22 to 30 ranked players.

 

[creme_fraiche]

I'd say it's amazing how some fans can't see that you lose some players if you want to be ruthless and push for a Premiership. I think the Lyons situation is a bit like Cheney.

Hawks traded out Cheney (and Lowden) for an upgrade to pick 31. Why trade out a solid backman like Cheney for such a small upgrade? He is better than average, why wouldn't the Hawks continue with him? Well, they brought in a bloke called Frawley as a free agent - so they knew that Cheney was going to be worth very very little to their AFL 22. The guy they got with pick 31 (Howe) is a young tall rebounding defender with great disposal efficiency. They had a plan that meant they didn't need Cheney - so they got what they could for him and attempted to improve their list.

Hawks did the same with Anderson last year - everyone rated him, he played a lot of games for North - Hawks upgraded to pick 15 that they used on Burton.

We need to keep improving our list. That means getting better players in, and better picks. You can't keep hoping that pick 44 turns into Sloane. Use the trade, get free agents, upgrade at every opportunity.

I agree with your thinking but disagree with your reasoning in this scenario.

If you want to talk continuous improvement, player upgrades and being ruthless, then lets have a look at a cooked Scott Thompson who is currently filling the role Jarryd Lyons could/should be playing and would perform to a far higher level than Thompson is physically able. Club champion aside, Thompson's only elite attribute that remains is his footy smarts. Due to sheer pigheadedness/dumb loyalty we've elected to continue with Thompson and ignore natural replacements (Lyons, CEY et al).

You can't then say we're being ruthless when Lyons is a logical replacement for a weaker footballer in the lineup that we appear willing to persist with.

If our club was taking a consistently ruthless stance across the board in the same mould as a Hawthorn or Geelong and felt that Lyons was part of the discussion requiring upgrading I could understand the thinking, but there are other examples within our own lineup of underperforming footballers who prove this isn't the case (see Douglas and Mackay).

 

[1970crow]

Not happy with this at all unless we've got better mids coming in. Otherwise it makes no sense. We've had this guy on our list for 6 years. He's had a good year and we are going to trade him for pick ******* 29?

A pick that might not even play a game and will be years away before contributing.

What the ****.

I agree unless pick 29 ends up somewhere and brings a high level mid. Given how we dealt with exiting JL, pick 29 would be a great result.

 

[RippaRiley43]

I'd say it's amazing how some fans can't see that you lose some players if you want to be ruthless and push for a Premiership. I think the Lyons situation is a bit like Cheney.

Hawks traded out Cheney (and Lowden) for an upgrade to pick 31. Why trade out a solid backman like Cheney for such a small upgrade? He is better than average, why wouldn't the Hawks continue with him? Well, they brought in a bloke called Frawley as a free agent - so they knew that Cheney was going to be worth very very little to their AFL 22. The guy they got with pick 31 (Howe) is a young tall rebounding defender with great disposal efficiency. They had a plan that meant they didn't need Cheney - so they got what they could for him and attempted to improve their list.

Hawks did the same with Anderson last year - everyone rated him, he played a lot of games for North - Hawks upgraded to pick 15 that they used on Burton.

We need to keep improving our list. That means getting better players in, and better picks. You can't keep hoping that pick 44 turns into Sloane. Use the trade, get free agents, upgrade at every opportunity.

The big difference is that Cheney was not best 22 for them. Surplus to requirements with Gibson, Lake and then Frawley. Akin to us trading Jake Kelly. Anderson was hardly best 22 either. Hawthorn are just fortunate their lesser players command high prices due to Hawthorn's strength.

Lyons is best 22 for us, and has probably been our third best midfielder this season, behind only Sloane and Matt Crouch. It's been apparent this year that we have a lack of quality pure midfielders, let alone ones who hit the scoreboard as well. This has been our biggest weakness for me this year.

Since we have played our oldies Thompson and van Berlo over potential replacements like Wigg and Ellis-Yolmen, we can't be so arrogant as to think that these guys will immediately step up and fill Lyons' void. Not to mention they might also request a trade if we decide to give Thompson another year, because our past selection indicates they won't be getting a game soon.

Also consider the great message it sends to our playing list and our supporters who want loyalty from the players. Lyons is a player I respect enormously for the character he has shown, staying loyal to the Crows and trying to improve himself rather than requesting a trade for more opportunities, when nobody would blame him for doing the latter. But nope, we would rather kick him to the kerb for a late second rounder once his value has increased. We don't need more average draft picks. We need established players to complement Sloane, Lyons and the Crouches in the middle.

Maybe this would be acceptable if we are getting a big fish like Rockliff or something fairly above his value like a first round pick, but I think it would be a terrible decision to trade him for a second round pick who we would spend years developing and may not even become as good as Lyons.

 

[1970crow]

Can someone shoot me down? Because I think this deal is quite good and would rather be disappointed sooner than later.

Could be,

Out:
JL
AFC 2016 2ND ROUNDER (potentially finishing 1st this year )

In:
Hampton
NMFC 2016 2ND ROUNDER (finished 8th)

Independent events and Hampton remains speculative anyway. If you have a deep desire to see positive results and it requires joining unjoinable events, which you obviously do and will, then you need to wait a bit to see where Hampton ends up.

 

[TAFKATMS]

I must have missed the press conference welcoming Lyons to the Kangaroos. As far as I'm aware there's a club a bit further north than North Melbourne that has the inside running if he was to leave.

I think there's still a bit of to and fro to go with the AFC too.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Hold your proverbials everyone...

If North, with a midfield of Zielbell, Cunnington and Swallow - all very good footballers, all very slow footballers - targeted Lyons - a handy but very slow midfielder - they're even bigger nufties than I originally thought. I already think they're total nufties.

Considering we're in the middle of a finals series, I dare say nothing has been set in stone.

I'm skeptical to say the least.

Swallow has been an awful footballer for two years now and Cunnington us another player that has had a terrible 2016

Their midfield is in awful shape and losing Wells won't help

 

[Elite Crow]

I must have missed the press conference welcoming Lyons to the Kangaroos. As far as I'm aware there's a club a bit further north than North Melbourne that has the inside running if he was to leave.

I think there's still a bit of to and fro to go with the AFC too.

Thanks and good

 

[DangerSloane]

Can someone shoot me down? Because I think this deal is quite good and would rather be disappointed sooner than later.

Could be,

Out:
JL
AFC 2016 2ND ROUNDER (potentially finishing 1st this year )

In:
Hampton
NMFC 2016 2ND ROUNDER (finished 8th)

We dont hvae a 2nd rounder.

 

[NikkiNoo]

I've only seen him play off half back, I haven't seen him spend any time in the middle.

Watch the final againt South and you will see it. A couple of times on the wing and a few centre bounces as well in the second half. Menzel has also started on the wing at times all this season and a few times in the middle too. Not regularly, but is an option we have used over the whole season (when he has been playing).

 

[Elite Crow]

I must have missed the press conference welcoming Lyons to the Kangaroos. As far as I'm aware there's a club a bit further north than North Melbourne that has the inside running if he was to leave.

I think there's still a bit of to and fro to go with the AFC too.

Any news on Thommo?

 

[GROTTO]

we have a pretty competent list management team now days, so im pretty confident they know what theyre doing.

not sure on CEY whats happening there, but Grigg to Port or Carton seems like it will happen.

Giving Port our off cuts and hand me downs will help the Power more than they realise. They should be grateful.

CEY would be in their starting 22. Grigg would be in their top 30 players.

 

[Elite Crow]

Giving Port our off cuts and hand me downs will help the Power more than they realise. They should be grateful.

CEY would be in their starting 22. Grigg would be in their top 30 players.

No they wouldn't, they have a better midfield than us

 

[Vhaluus]

No they wouldn't, they have a better midfield than us

Yep, we saw this in the latest showdown. Their problem is their backs and forwards.

 

[Crowstar]

Watch the final againt South and you will see it. A couple of times on the wing and a few centre bounces as well in the second half. Menzel has also started on the wing at times all this season and a few times in the middle too. Not regularly, but is an option we have used over the whole season (when he has been playing).

I remember seeing him at the centre bounce on a few occasions too

 

[Elite Crow]

Yep, we saw this in the latest showdown. Their problem is their backs and forwards.

And no ruck this season