Training 2017/2018 Pre-season Thread

[Mego Red]

Keep showing your bias

It’s ridiculous he smashed one of the best players in the comp and was a fair reason why his team took out the GF


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What have I said that's biased?

He has played one good game. He tagged Sloane well, and got himself into the game. That's what Gibson did last year, too.

Actually, Gibson did a fair bit more, but my point remains.

I hope Graham does well. His grandmother and my mother worked together for 30 years. They're a fantastic family.

But I'm not going to use him to take cheap pathetic shots at my own side, as you want to.

 

[1970crow]

If Milera had come into the GF last year and did what Graham did to Sloane let’s say Milera did it to dusty

It would have been fantastic and we would have probably won the GF

This board would have an orgasm

Come on stop showing bias against brilliant efforts


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The point is that if anyone had suggested that Graham would do that to Sloane you'd have laughed at them. You'd say, "hahahahaha, how is a 4 gamer from Richmond going to do that to an elite A-grader Sloane. I'd take a bet on that and ask Elite, I only bet when I know I'm going to win." On one hand, you're lauding Graham's efforts against Sloane and assuming that he's going to be repeating that throughout his career (Mark McGough ring a bell?), but when someone else predicts that one of our young players might burst onto the scene this year, you scoff at it as if it's an impossibility. When you should know it's possible because you wont STFU about Graham.

 

[1970crow]

It's also one of the weird stats anomalies. It doesn't count as a possession (rightly) and yet accurate kicking is absolutely vital. So it would be great to know the turnover etc stats of the kick ins, but since they don't count as a kick they're not really included. Surely though Champion data have them

Jaensch and Mackay used to pad their stats by kicking to themselves first then running 10m and kicking it to the Sauce contest outside the defensive 50 arc. For that they get an effective kick and a rebound 50.

 

[Golumless]

I reckon Mikera is in for one and out for one, not a 'here's a 6 game block' like we do with others

Nope. He only missed 2 games from round 1 to 19 (dropped in round 20), which were to do with a calf injury.

We gave him a massive block of games, and that's despite a real second year blues thing occurring for Wayne.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Alex Keath's and untried Tom Doedee's battle to win Lever's old position is well documented, but third-year livewire Wayne Milera might be the answer in Smith's absence.

The 20-year-old has played on the wing and up forward in his first two seasons in the AFL.

"Brodie Smith's going to miss the majority of the year with his ACL, so there's another opportunity for someone," Kelly said.

"Wayne Milera's been training really well (and) training down back, so he might be the one to step into Brodie Smith's role."

 

[1970crow]

I'm not going to complain if this happens, but I'd prefer Milera's precision hitting targets inside the forward 50. You don't need to be as much of an elite leg coming out of the back half. It's much harder hitting targets inside the forward 50.

 

[marty36]

The point is that if anyone had suggested that Graham would do that to Sloane you'd have laughed at them. You'd say, "hahahahaha, how is a 4 gamer from Richmond going to do that to an elite A-grader Sloane. I'd take a bet on that and ask Elite, I only bet when I know I'm going to win." On one hand, you're lauding Graham's efforts against Sloane and assuming that he's going to be repeating that throughout his career (Mark McGough ring a bell?), but when someone else predicts that one of our young players might burst onto the scene this year, you scoff at it as if it's an impossibility. When you should know it's possible because you wont STFU about Graham.

I think Milera will be a champ, Galluci shows promise, Pohlkoke sits at a 50/50 CEY has fallen off the perch, signs look poor for Doedee two years without a game and JJ saying he had disposal issues, Dear looks in trouble, Keath showed a bit , Greenwood looks like making the grade, kelly stepped up

I dont mind calling a spade a spade

 

[crows dude]

I think Milera will be a champ, Galluci shows promise, Pohlkoke sits at a 50/50 CEY has fallen off the perch, signs look poor for Doedee two years without a game and JJ saying he had disposal issues, Dear looks in trouble, Keath showed a bit , Greenwood looks like making the grade, kelly stepped up

I dont mind calling a spade a spade

Underrating Doedee there. He will be a gun. Plays like lever but quicker and a tad shorter

 

[GameofSloanes]

I'm not going to complain if this happens, but I'd prefer Milera's precision hitting targets inside the forward 50. You don't need to be as much of an elite leg coming out of the back half. It's much harder hitting targets inside the forward 50.

Disagree, turning it over coming out of defence regularly results in a goal to the opposition. It's one of the places you want your elite kicks. Smith, Laird for example

 

[GameofSloanes]

Are there any stats on who kicks out after a behind for each team?

Was ours Smith?

I remember reading it somewhere, think it was in the lead up to the game that shall not be named about the impact of Smith's loss but can't find it, but Smith took something like 80% of our kick outs last year

 

[Golumless]

Disagree, turning it over coming out of defence regularly results in a goal to the opposition. It's one of the places you want your elite kicks. Smith, Laird for example

Laird is certainly not an elite kick, but does work around his limits well.

 

[MRB37]

Underrating Doedee there. He will be a gun. Plays like lever but quicker and a tad shorter

Don't worry, it doesn't matter if Doedee plays well, he's already written him off.

 

[MRB37]

Laird is certainly not an elite kick, but does work around his limits well.

High and long to the pack.

 

[Golumless]

High and long to the pack.

It really helps that disposal efficiency.

 

[Mego Red]

I think Milera will be a champ, Galluci shows promise, Pohlkoke sits at a 50/50 CEY has fallen off the perch, signs look poor for Doedee two years without a game and JJ saying he had disposal issues, Dear looks in trouble, Keath showed a bit , Greenwood looks like making the grade, kelly stepped up

I dont mind calling a spade a spade

Bullshit. You have deep confirmation bias. Shocking.

Doedee was second in our B&F and Best intercept mark in the SANFL at 19. That's fantastic.

But you've bet big on him being a failure because you were so foolishly outspoken when he was drafted. Instead of saying "well, we have a great history in player identification", you carried on like an idiot for months when he was drafted. And instead of just dropping it when he started to show good form, you kept doubling down on him failing. You've painted yourself into a corner. You would rather be right on the internet that want what is best for the club - which is a successful Doedee.

Will you disappear like NT Rabbit did, when Crouch came good?

 

[baldandbroke]

Because he's vanilla and a prime upgrade candidate

He's better than that imo.

Talia is vanilla, and I wouldn't be moving him out of our back 6. French vanilla, but vanilla no doubt.

I love what Hartigan brings in terms of effort and attitude, but if you want an upgrade candidate from our defensive unit... He's the one. Keath seems like an upgrade in ability and skill.

Hell, Doedee might be an upgrade on Lever! He has the potential at least (I won't miss Jake's fake toughness and finger pointing, was never a fan)

But Kelly does everything I want a back utility to do... and a bit more. He just turned 23, and is heading into the prime of his career. He is hard at it, every time... Very very good defensively. He is a good mark and a reliable disposer. What more do you want???

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[ad victoriam]

It really helps that disposal efficiency.

Yep
AFL stats- Effective Kick = A kick of more than 40 metres to a 50/50 contest or better for the team or a kick of less than 40 metres that results in the intended target retaining possession.

Just for interest
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-12-28/stats-glossary-every-stat-explained

 

[Jack is Back]

I think Milera will be a champ, Galluci shows promise, Pohlkoke sits at a 50/50 CEY has fallen off the perch, signs look poor for Doedee two years without a game and JJ saying he had disposal issues, Dear looks in trouble, Keath showed a bit , Greenwood looks like making the grade, kelly stepped up

I dont mind calling a spade a spade

Excellent example of Trumpism in MartyWorld.

You stated loud and long that Greenwood and Keath were not ready for AFL last year. After being selected mid-season, TMT retained his place in the team including all three finals. “He now looks like making the grade”. You went on and on and on and on about how ridiculous it was for some of us to suggest Keath would be a better tall defender than Otten. Eventually Keath was selected and guess what, he was preferred to Otten as a defender prior to Hartigan’s return. “Keath showed a bit”.

Prior to playing their first game, Doedee and Poholke are 50/50.

Fair dinkum, you’re like Nostradamus. No doubt when Doedee and Poholke get a game and show some promise you will claim this justifies your opinion that they struggled early in their AFL career .

 

[fabs33]

Not as much as the years of Mackay and JJ whipping


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So in your mind Doedee is deserving of equal amounts of criticism as those two so you take it upon yourself to even things out, is that it?

Yes, I can see how they've all had a decent amount of games at AFL level to prove themselves...

 

[marty36]

So in your mind Doedee is deserving of equal amounts of criticism as those two so you take it upon yourself to even things out, is that it?

Yes, I can see how they've all had a decent amount of games at AFL level to prove themselves...

No but I definetly think Hamish is deserved of the criticism by taking Doedee over Burton

Don’t you unless you did watch burton play last year

Surely you were at Adelaide Oval when burton tore Tex apart


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[marty36]

Bullshit. You have deep confirmation bias. Shocking.

Doedee was second in our B&F and Best intercept mark in the SANFL at 19. That's fantastic.

But you've bet big on him being a failure because you were so foolishly outspoken when he was drafted. Instead of saying "well, we have a great history in player identification", you carried on like an idiot for months when he was drafted. And instead of just dropping it when he started to show good form, you kept doubling down on him failing. You've painted yourself into a corner. You would rather be right on the internet that want what is best for the club - which is a successful Doedee.

Will you disappear like NT Rabbit did, when Crouch came good?

I just wanted burton simple and we ended up with Doedee

Do you blame me


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[fabs33]

No but I definetly think Hamish is deserved of the criticism by taking Doedee over Burton

Don’t you unless you did watch burton play last year

Surely you were at Adelaide Oval when burton tore Tex apart


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I just wanted burton simple and we ended up with Doedee

Do you blame me


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That's bullshit, you were pushed to say who you'd rather take instead of Doedee and it took you until page 96 of the original thread for you to say you'd rather take Burton, and it wasn't due to a lack of posting that you took so long. That's not all, every time someone posts something positive about Doedee there you are telling us about all his faults, his kicking is one you love to drone on about in particular. Ogilvie's name rarely rates a mention compared to Doedee's in your posting.

Here's another thing I've noticed, a common tactic of yours whenever someone is criticising some average player you're fond of, you point to one of our better players going missing in the past. Like it excuses everyone else for doing it regularly. You even point to the difference in salary to justify higher expectations of our better players, but if that's the case is Doedee on the same money as Jenkins or Mackay? I'm sure your favourite Richmond player must be on a small fortune, so we can't expect those two to lift their game when we need it because they aren't earning as much as he is.

 

[marty36]

That's bullshit, you were pushed to say who you'd rather take instead of Doedee and it took you until page 96 of the original thread for you to say you'd rather take Burton, and it wasn't due to a lack of posting that you took so long. That's not all, every time someone posts something positive about Doedee there you are telling us about all his faults, his kicking is one you love to drone on about in particular. Ogilvie's name rarely rates a mention compared to Doedee's in your posting.

Here's another thing I've noticed, a common tactic of yours whenever someone is criticising some average player you're fond of, you point to one of our better players going missing in the past. Like it excuses everyone else for doing it regularly. You even point to the difference in salary to justify higher expectations of our better players, but if that's the case is Doedee on the same money as Jenkins or Mackay? I'm sure your favourite Richmond player must be on a small fortune, so we can't expect those two to lift their game when we need it because they aren't earning as much as he is.

Mate I played for the club burton came from you have absolutely no idea I have met burton numerous times of course I’m going to have a biased towards him but well and truly justified with his ability


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[marty36]

That's bullshit, you were pushed to say who you'd rather take instead of Doedee and it took you until page 96 of the original thread for you to say you'd rather take Burton, and it wasn't due to a lack of posting that you took so long. That's not all, every time someone posts something positive about Doedee there you are telling us about all his faults, his kicking is one you love to drone on about in particular. Ogilvie's name rarely rates a mention compared to Doedee's in your posting.

Here's another thing I've noticed, a common tactic of yours whenever someone is criticising some average player you're fond of, you point to one of our better players going missing in the past. Like it excuses everyone else for doing it regularly. You even point to the difference in salary to justify higher expectations of our better players, but if that's the case is Doedee on the same money as Jenkins or Mackay? I'm sure your favourite Richmond player must be on a small fortune, so we can't expect those two to lift their game when we need it because they aren't earning as much as he is.

Nice you have no idea on noticing anything

Doedee hasn’t played a game who gives a toss what he’s on

As for JJ and Mackay I’ve always been a critic of Mackay that he sits 20 to 25 depending on form and JJ is in the top 11 goal kickers in the league there are 18 teams in the comp do the maths

As for wAnting our highest paid players to put it on the park WTF don’t you want that, they are the highest paid players for a reason unless you want the lower paid players to do the heavy lifting


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[fabs33]

Mate I played for the club burton came from you have absolutely no idea I have met burton numerous times of course I’m going to have a biased towards him but well and truly justified with his ability


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So your bias allows you to post whatever rubbish you want then?

And no you haven't been justified, it doesn't matter how many times you've met Burton, it has nothing to do with how he's going to turn out in the long run. Rhys Palmer won the rising star award and he turned out well didn't he?

Nice you have no idea on noticing anything

Doedee hasn’t played a game who gives a toss what he’s on

As for JJ and Mackay I’ve always been a critic of Mackay that he sits 20 to 25 depending on form and JJ is in the top 11 goal kickers in the league there are 18 teams in the comp do the maths

As for wAnting our highest paid players to put it on the park WTF don’t you want that, they are the highest paid players for a reason unless you want the lower paid players to do the heavy lifting


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That's funny, it seems wages only matter when it's in defense of your favourites, but when it's a rookie (you don't like) on a low wage all of a sudden you don't care what he's earning.

There's a simple fact in this situation that you can't seem to wrap your head around and it's that Jenkins and Mackay have both played over a hundred AFL games whereas Doedee has zero. You have no business telling others to be as critical of Doedee as they are of the other two, you only do so because you don't like him. The only reason you say your criticism is directed at Ogilvie instead of Doedee is because you don't want people to think your opinion isn't reasonable, but you wouldn't be looking to blame someone for his selection if you hadn't already written him off, and that's hardly reasonable at this early stage.