Training 2017/2018 Pre-season Thread

[baldandbroke]

The simple question is this: does JJ make our forward system tick or is he a beneficiary of that system

Contributor or recipient

We saw last year the answer to that question, we scored as well, often higher than usual, when JJ was out and Otten played his role

JJ is a beneficiary of our system

It has also been shown no tall forward who kicks as many goals as JJ is so poorly regarded his coaches

Well put.

 

[John Who]

Comparing a forward with a defender for tackles is entirely appropriate and not in any way like goals

In fact they should be tackling each other

Ok this is a pretty dumb comment. A forward of course needs to do some tackling in a game, but most the time he's trying to kick goals or goal assists. A defender only has spoils and tackling on his mind. Who has the most probability of racking up the tackling stats?

 

[Scorpus]

Great call Macca Pakka. JJ is probably a closer comparison to Buddy than most of the other big-bodied forwards. They both use their speed and agility as weapons, not their strength in pack marks.

The difference is Buddy has kicked 860 goals and more than 60 goals in 11 of the last 12 seasons, plus he's also a 2x premiership player, 7xAA, 4x Coleman Medalist, and has had multiple bags of 4+ goals in finals and averages more goals in grand finals than Jenkins does in his entire career.

So while Franklin doesn't play as a pack crashing tall forward, he is much, much, much more successful than Jenkins playing as a fast lead-into-space forward

 

[baldandbroke]

No, he is saying buddy franklins is a tall forward who doesn’t, and never has played, as a ‘big forward’.

He is not great above his head and almost never crashes a pack. What he is good at is being more mobile than his opponent and this makes him one of the best (if not the best) forward in the AFL.

As the saying goes, “you don’t judge a fish by how well he can climb a tree”.

Jenkins is built like a big forward but plays like a medium forward. If you assess him by medium forward standards he measures up well.

Nope.

Comparing Buddy to Jenkins is comparing a fish to a tree.

 

[Vader]

Have a feeling you'll be changing that opinion re Himmelberg quite quickly and I'm not a critic of JJ btw.

He's not there yet, and he certainly hasn't been over the last 2 years... but I do hear a lot of good things about him.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Was his rib still busted or is it just an excuse?

I mean since the injury actually occurred (and after he returned) it didn't stop Jenkins kicking 3 or more goals on 9 occasions, competiting in the ruck and having 5 or more hitouts 13 times, or taking more than 100 marks and 25 contested marks. He also had a game with 21 touches and another game with 13 tackles in that time.

But no the busted rib from round 2 stopped him performing in the Grand Final

The club reported the ribs were busted, so I'm just going on what they said.

With ribs, it is easy to refracture them if not properly healed which is what I suspect happened.

 

[John Who]

The difference is Buddy has kicked 860 goals and more than 60 goals in 11 of the last 12 seasons, plus he's also a 2x premiership player, 7xAA, 4x Coleman Medalist, and has had multiple bags of 4+ goals in finals and averages more goals in grand finals than Jenkins does in his entire career.

So while Franklin doesn't play as a pack crashing tall forward, he is much, much, much more successful than Jenkins playing as a fast lead-into-space forward

At least now this argument makes more sense!
But then JJ is not getting a million a year like Buddy, so it kind of even things out a bit.

 

[Sanders]

Ok this is a pretty dumb comment. A forward of course needs to do some tackling in a game, but most the time he's trying to kick goals or goal assists. A defender only has spoils and tackling on his mind. Who has the most probability of racking up the tackling stats?

are you googlifying the glory hole again John? You’ll go blind

Richmond just won a flag off forwards who tackle like crazy men.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

You can keep defending him all you like.
Probably one of the reasons this club has been mediocre for so long is because we make excuses for our players so easily.

Lol, so now the club is mediocre if a player with busted ribs is defended for their performance.

I have heard everything now...

The only criticism of AFC is playing JJ when injured or recovering from injury as he rarely carries injuries well.

 

[Scorpus]

With ribs, it is easy to refracture them if not properly healed which is what I suspect happened.

When did he refracture them? It certainly didn't impede his ruck ability in the GF which is usually something a player recovering from rib injuries avoids. In fact he had more hitouts in the GF than in the first 3 weeks after his return from injury combined

 

[John Who]

The club reported the ribs were busted, so I'm just going on what they said.

With ribs, it is easy to refracture them if not properly healed which is what I suspect happened.

I think Scorpus has a good point. It's more likely that his ribs had healed from his reasonably consistent games from the mid-to-late rounds, but also more likely JJ did indeed have a shit game on GF day.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

When did he refracture them? It certainly didn't impede his ruck ability in the GF which is usually something a player recovering from rib injuries avoids. In fact he had more hitouts in the GF than in the first 3 weeks after his return from injury combined

Honestly don't know.

They were busted after the grand final.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I think Scorpus has a good point. It's more likely that his ribs had healed from his reasonably consistent games from the mid-to-late rounds, but also more likely JJ did indeed have a shit game on GF day.

Sure, that's why I suggested that he refractured them...

 

[John Who]

are you googlifying the glory hole again John? You’ll go blind

Richmond just won a flag off forwards who tackle like crazy men.

Yeah so? Did the Richmond forwards on that day rack up more tackles then the Richmond defenders?

 

[Sanders]

Yeah so? Did the Richmond forwards on that day rack up more tackles then the Richmond defenders?

Don’t you know?

 

[John Who]

Don’t you know?

No, I can't Google it. Or actually I can, but can't be stuffed trying to prove an obvious point to an obvious ass

 

[John Who]

Sure, that's why I suggested that he refractured them...

Sorry Kane, there was no report of injury with Jenkins after the GF. I think there were reports of injuries to Walker, Brown and Greenwood from what I can remember. JJ just had a stinky game. And along with 2/3 of our team. We can't use injuries as a hypothetical excuse.

 

[ad victoriam]

Sorry, did you say you were answering a question of when he beat his man one on one?

And then you’re arguing getting votes for “playing his role” meant he beat his opponent 1:1

Surely even your foggy perspective can see that’s not analogous

Interesting choice of words however meaningless, He is Tall Forward the coaches believed he Played his role well and influenced the game.
The only other bit of info I can give you is to watch the game again, watch his patterns, watch how he dragged his direct opponent to the outside freeing up others closer to goals. That is what they call influencing the play.
Buts there no need to carry on.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Sorry Kane, there was no report of injury with Jenkins after the GF. I think there were reports of injuries to Walker, Brown and Greenwood from what I can remember. JJ just had a stinky game. And along with 2/3 of our team. We can't use injuries as a hypothetical excuse.

The club did confirm JJ had a broken rib. It was discussed on this board.

 

[John Who]

Something I want to be clear on here ... I cheer for Jenkins once he puts on the jumper. I want him to be the difference. Once you cross the white line for our club you are one of my guys.

What I find muddling, is the real confusion as to why we pick him. I feel the same about Mackay. Now obviously he does what the coaches want, or he wouldn't play at all. I just don't see what he provides that will be difference when we need it. I don't think I know better, and I don't think everyone else is dumb. My opinion counts for as little as anyone else's on here.

I believe we would be a better team without Jenkins or Mackay ... that's all. I think we have players that could grow into something a lot more than those two provide on field.

I hope JJ has an amazing year and kicks the winning goal in GF after a beautiful pass from Mackay streaming out of the centre. I just feel the likelihood of that might be very very small ... close to nada. Hope I'm wrong.

The way I see it, most of the "JJ defenders" actually agree with you that JJ can improve some more, or that other talents in our team can replace him at some point (or even do a better job). The question really is "is Jenkins the best fit for our forward structure as of RIGHT NOW, leading to round 1?" and "Can the team play to their potential, everyone giving it a fair dinkum go, and can we then win with JJ in it?" And right now, I think the answer is "yes".

 

[John Who]

The club did confirm JJ had a broken rib. It was discussed on this board.

After the GF? I didn't see any official reports of the rib injury recurring.

 

[Tobster]

In anticipation of the first JLT game, watched the PF against the cats, which we won. Two glaring issues came out of the game, which I do not think our coaching staff will ever learn from:

1) JJ makes fundamental errors for his position, which negate any positive impact he has (I would call this footy IQ, which Tex has and JJ does not).

2) Hartigan has the same problem as JJ (footy IQ and fundamental errors).

Rough as it is, as I like both of the boys, if we continue to play both of these players as FF and CHB respectively, then we will need to play at our absolute best to beat anyone if a GF, if we are lucky enough to get there again.

Personally I would like our coaching staff to put time into two other players in these positions, which may cause us to lose some early games but may just deliver us the ultimate prize in the long run (fingers crossed).


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[1990crow]

In anticipation of the first JLT game, watched the PF against the cats, which we won. Two glaring issues came out of the game, which I do not think our coaching staff will ever learn from:

1) JJ makes fundamental errors for his position, which negate any positive impact he has (I would call this footy IQ, which Tex has and JJ does not).

2) Hartigan has the same problem as JJ (footy IQ and fundamental errors).

Rough as it is, as I like both of the boys, if we continue to play both of these players as FF and CHB respectively, then we will need to play at our absolute best to beat anyone if a GF, if we are lucky enough to get there again.

Personally I would like our coaching staff to put time into two other players in these positions, which may cause us to lose some early games but may just deliver us the ultimate prize in the long run (fingers crossed).


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

Agree with this post. Jenkins does try he just doesn’t understand how important the other 1 per centers are.
Hartigan could be a very good player I’d just love to see Keath take his spot on merit (performance).

 

[Cap]

Vote 1 JJ for whipping boy.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Vote 1 JJ for whipping boy.

And so we have JJ as the Heir Apparent to take of as chief Scapegoat for the Adelaide Crows