Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion

[Magruder]

My point being the slight improvement is directly proportional to the quality of the team around him.

Thus, it is the team/system elevating Tuohy, not vice-versa.

He's also playing a more important role and being given more responsibility up-field, which has lead to a residual improvement in his overall game.

I get what you're saying, and agree to some extent, but I also think he's finally flourishing in a role that is perfectly suited to him. He looks far more confident and has far more freedom to create attacking moves knowing he has guys behind him.

Can argue his full potential wasn't expressed at Carlton - as it was for many players - but given he never elevated himself it's all guesswork as to how good he could have been had he been playing at a successful club.

Agree that his role at Geelong and the broader attacking half back system they have there (Enright, Mackie) is perfect for Tuohy.

I think you're both right. In fact I think the differences in your positions are minuscule.

Was solid enough for us and could arguably have performed a role that showcased his attributes even better but:

Everything from the role he plays to the structure and quality of the team, heck even the shape of KP, (when he eventually plays there); will suit Zac.

Likely win/win/win trade.

 

[Magruder]

not at 35, he'll most certainly be done by then. people seem to think 30 is the time when a player is done these days but anyone that thinks that still lives in 1973

but at 32-33 he could still be a very useful player. he'll probably have to go back behind the ball like montagna, boyd, kelly or that kade simpson bloke. By then the midfield will be developed so it won't be an issue. maybe that's the move that allows a 27 year old in his prime docherty into the midfield if we need.

1973 was a good year - we were reigning premiers for 9 months of it

 

[Smegger]

If they are Vic boys, can earn an extra $200k per year and play regular 1st 22 games - why wouldn't they?

Luring talent to Carlton atm is like considering an off-the-plan development. Worth looking into IF the offer is good enough. Besides, some of the popular past developments are starting to look a bit shabby.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

I think it may be a little simpler than all that.

I saw some moments in the Port game where, dare I say it, he looked a fraction slow. It was the first ever time I've seen it and I'd hope that it was a one-off but maybe father time is starting to catch up with him.

If over the rest of the season it becomes obvious that he is losing touch with the game, he may retire of his own volition which would rule out all other possible options.

Just have to keep watching to see where he is at physically and whether he can continue playing with valuable contributions. The last thing I want to see is him going on for one season too long and looking poor, he has been a great servant for our club and needs to finish on a high note, whenever that is.

Keep for another year. If Simpson looks a fraction slow, well Thomas is glacial ... Simpson can certainly do the on-field leadership and positioning stuff next year that Thomas is said to be doing this year (and contribute well to the team).

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

1973 was a good year - we were reigning premiers for 9 months of it

a successful carlton? that's well before my time...i'll have to take your word for it

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

Luring talent to Carlton atm is like considering an off-the-plan development. Worth looking into IF the offer is good enough. Besides, some of the popular past developments are starting to look a bit shabby.

i think for players under 27 money, location and first team football all trump team success by a long way.

 

[Deep Blue]

think we've all experienced what a change of scenery and people can do for our well-being and output

That's the approach I took when faced with a long prison-stint!

 

[thylacine60]

you got daily exercise.........quit your complaining........

 

[Deep Blue]

Luring talent to Carlton atm is like considering an off-the-plan development. Worth looking into IF the offer is good enough. Besides, some of the popular past developments are starting to look a bit shabby.

Yeah, lot better now than it was - used to be like luring haemophiliacs to Dracula's Castle!

 

[Magruder]

a successful carlton? that's well before my time...i'll have to take your word for it

I wasn't there either...

 

[Pafloyul]

Couldn't agree with you more.
That must clearly be the plan or at least a quality mid already in the system and a good pick coming back.

Lots to play out yet, dependent on what the top end talent looks like in a couple of months time....but that's a great start point.

If I'm reading this draft correctly at this early stage, it contradicts the value of having the highest picks in the first place. There could still be a huge gulf between picks two and five for example. The ultimate scenario would be that if we were were bad enough to have to endure another horror season to be granted a PP, use both picks and perhaps trade next year's first rounder. Last year was the perfect draft for that kind of scenario, not this year.

 

[LordLucifer]

Keep for another year. If Simpson looks a fraction slow, well Thomas is glacial ... Simpson can certainly do the on-field leadership and positioning stuff next year that Thomas is said to be doing this year (and contribute well to the team).

The problem is, if he is showing signs of slowing down this year, then next year he could be a total liability which is something that no-one wants to see happen.

Assess over this year, if the club thinks he can get through the whole 2018 season then go for it, if not, tap him on the shoulder.

 

[Old navy]

Maybe we can load up our midfield of the future with one big king hit at the draft/trade this year .
Trade pick 1 to Saints/Tigers for 2 x 1st rounders .
Trade Gibbs for Adelaide's 1st rounder and change .
End of 1st round PP on the cards after a very skinny win/loss season this year .
Trade 2018 1st rounder to the Giants for Hopper and Kennedy .
That's 6 x quality young midfielders added to the list in one hit with the possibility of a premium FA also added this year or going forward .

Like the idea of getting two or three 1st rounders in, but under no circumstances should we be considering trading away our future 1st.
Keeping our future 1st is like having insurance, if things go really bad, due to reasons like injuries, form, development, at least we get access to the real high end talent available, we've already seen it back fire on clubs that were much better placed to be trading there future 1st.
We also need to keep in mind, that if we trade away our future 1st, we could very well be trading away the number one pick, imagine if there was a Weitering type player available in that years draft, not to mention could you imagine going through a year like this, with the knowledge that we didn't even have our 1st round pick.

 

[Dramoth]

What future is that?? With no leadership in the middle we will be Melbourne like for 4-5 years instead -2-3 .... I don't understand your point.

The guys that we are looking at bringing in all have leadership qualities. Cripps will be the next captain of the club I reckon!

 

[Red Bull]

Like the idea of getting two or three 1st rounders in, but under no circumstances should we be considering trading away our future 1st.
Keeping our future 1st is like having insurance, if things go really bad, due to reasons like injuries, form, development, at least we get access to the real high end talent available, we've already seen it back fire on clubs that were much better placed to be trading there future 1st.
We also need to keep in mind, that if we trade away our future 1st, we could very well be trading away the number one pick, imagine if there was a Weitering type player available in that years draft, not to mention could you imagine going through a year like this, with the knowledge that we didn't even have our 1st round pick.

At some stage the days of sitting at the bottom have to stop , we can't continue with the mindset of oh , what if we have a s**t year again .
The club has to back itself in to start the climb and if we were to attack this year's draft/trade period we would have plenty of talent to see us out of the bottom section of the ladder .
Things change quickly in footy and our club would be bursting with talent and enthusiasm whilst a glance at the likes of Hawthorn and a few others suggest they may well be headed in the other direction .

 

[thylacine60]

one more poster suggests things change quickly after a 20 year drought and I will deadset spew up

 

[Jimmae]

I think this should quiet the folks who ask for Rowe to be dropped every few weeks after 1 or 2 mistakes

It's going to sound like I have it in for Rowe here, but he was a forward/ruck for 2013, so not sure why he's included in that tally.

Then there's the much murkier argument about how many goals each bloke prevents due to intercepts and by setting up attacks; Rance sits a level above him in that regard.

 

[Old navy]

At some stage the days of sitting at the bottom have to stop , we can't continue with the mindset of oh , what if we have a s**t year again .
The club has to back itself in to start the climb and if we were to attack this year's draft/trade period we would have plenty of talent to see us out of the bottom section of the ladder .
Things change quickly in footy and our club would be bursting with talent and enthusiasm whilst a glance at the likes of Hawthorn and a few others suggest they may well be headed in the other direction .

At some stage, yes, we may be able to consider trading a future 1st, but based on what we've seen so far, we are realistically 2 to 3 years away from potentially being in a position like that.
The way the footy gods have treated us these last 20 years, if we traded our future 1st, without doubt we would lose the number one pick.
It's sad that I know this will happen

 

[Red Bull]

At some stage, yes, we may be able to consider trading a future 1st, but based on what we've seen so far, we are realistically 2 to 3 years away from potentially being in a position like that.
They way the footy gods have treated us these last 20 years, if we traded our future 1st, without doubt we would lose the number one pick.
It's sad that I know this will happen

Defeatist attitude Old navy .
The last 20 years have had nothing to do with any silly gods notions , we've brought it on ourselves .
Things changed 2 years ago , although results aren't immediately obvious , we're on our way !

 

[Pafloyul]

Defeatist attitude Old navy .
The last 20 years have had nothing to do with any silly gods notions , we've brought it on ourselves .
Things changed 2 years ago , although results aren't immediately obvious , we're on our way !

You are right, we brought it on ourselves, so lets not start doing the same kinds of things that got us there in the first place because old habits are easy to step back in to. Having said that, trading next year's first round draft pick sounds better than trading this year's, at this stage. That's if it has to come to that.

If this year's standouts are as good as they seem to be, there is less change for there to be the same kind of talent two years in a row. SOS and the other bloke should have an inkling of what might be available next year.

 

[La Dispute]

The club should encourage Simmo to have a crack elsewhere. Let him go to a contending club for more than likely the last year of his career.

Although he's always got the club's best interest at heart, if he doesn't request a trade at the end of the year, he'll never experience finals footy again, let alone potentially winning a premiership.

 

[HBF]

The club should encourage Simmo to have a crack elsewhere. Let him go to a contending club for more than likely the last year of his career.

Although he's always got the club's best interest at heart, if he doesn't request a trade at the end of the year, he'll never experience finals footy again, let alone potentially winning a premiership.

He might also want to be a one club player.

 

[La Dispute]

He might also want to be a one club player.

That's the safe option for him.

I'd prefer he went elsewhere and chased some success.

 

[DangerousD]

Why do you say that? It's quite possible if Crows won't come to the party.

Having seen what SOS has done in the last 2 trade periods I firmly believe he won't just go to the draft with 4-5 picks.
Adelaide might not come for Gibbs, Port might (doubtful), if that's the case I can see SOS low balling Cas or Kruz in the same way we did Tuohy.

 

[Smegger]

Having seen what SOS has done in the last 2 trade periods I firmly believe he won't just go to the draft with 4-5 picks.
Adelaide might not come for Gibbs, Port might (doubtful), if that's the case I can see SOS low balling Cas or Kruz in the same way we did Tuohy.

Know what you mean, there's bound to be some more hurt factor coming by letting some players go. Didn't Barass70 say something about Kreuzer staying?
No doubt SOS will look at all available scenarios and weigh it up for the future of the club over individuals.