2017 Rising Star Discussion

[JUSTWORK]

So what you're saying is, he's a pretty strong guy?

Give him the Brownlow!

 

[cryptor]

So what...? That's one guy and his parrots opinion. The AFL player ranking stat is just as cherry picked as any other in here about Burton or McGrath. As he said, "you can cut the numbers anyway you like" and if they'd cut them using Champion Data ranking points then he's way behind Burton and McGrath - as is the prevailing individual opinion.

 

[Vindicater]

So what...? That's one guy and his parrots opinion. The AFL player ranking stat is just as cherry picked as any other in here about Burton or McGrath. As he said, "you can cut the numbers anyway you like" and if they'd cut them using Champion Data ranking points then he's way behind Burton and McGrath - as is the prevailing individual opinion.

Where do you get the champion data ranking points?

 

[Holy Rioli]

So what...? That's one guy and his parrots opinion. The AFL player ranking stat is just as cherry picked as any other in here about Burton or McGrath. As he said, "you can cut the numbers anyway you like" and if they'd cut them using Champion Data ranking points then he's way behind Burton and McGrath - as is the prevailing individual opinion.

That same ranking system gave Dangerfield his lowest score in over a year for a single match against the Hawks on the weekend.

 

[Holy Rioli]

For those relying on the AFL player ratings.

 

[bradburygold]

View attachment 393852

For those relying on the AFL player ratings.

Those ranking also had key defenders (and forwards) which hurts burton who does that role 50% of the time. More relevant is the "relative rating" where he is tops.


Also I may have missed it but is burton not in the votes above??

 

[bradburygold]

Burton didn't play in any of those premiership sides, he wasn't even drafted by the time you won your last one. Ridiculous statement that has nothing to do with burtons chances of the rising star

Playing as a mid with lots of help (SPP) is a lot easier than playing defence for what has looked at times like the worst team in the comp this year. Is that relevant?

 

[Holy Rioli]

Those ranking also had key defenders (and forwards) which hurts burton who does that role 50% of the time. More relevant is the "relative rating" where he is tops.


Also I may have missed it but is burton not in the votes above??

He is, hanging out with his mate from the match Tom Hawkins down the bottom.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Player ratings system also has Aaron Hall in the AA team for this year....

Don't pay any attention to it.

 

[cryptor]

Where do you get the champion data ranking points?

Herald Sun prints them in their stats table. They are also used as Supercoach points.

Each ranking system has a different methodology. And no one system is perfect. You have to be aware of how points are awarded and the limitations of that method.

For example, lockdown defenders and taggers can have huge influence on the outcome of a game but they rarely score well in these ranking systems. It's also flawed when it comes to comparing players in different positions.

They can also fail to distinguish between a clever bouncing handball that opens up a scoring opportunity (which is recorded as a clanger due to not getting there on the full) and a hospital handball that gets to a teammate on the full but ends up in a stoppage or turnover (recorded as an effective disposal).

Stats should support an analysis, not be the basis of one.

 

[Burtman]

you mean like Dustin Martin is ?

I like spp, he's a gun, just don't think dont arguing people should be used as a reason for winning the rising star. I think it's down to him and burton.

 

[Vindicater]

Herald Sun prints them in their stats table. They are also used as Supercoach points.

Each ranking system has a different methodology. And no one system is perfect. You have to be aware of how points are awarded and the limitations of that method.

For example, lockdown defenders and taggers can have huge influence on the outcome of a game but they rarely score well in these ranking systems. It's also flawed when it comes to comparing players in different positions.

They can also fail to distinguish between a clever bouncing handball that opens up a scoring opportunity (which is recorded as a clanger due to not getting there on the full) and a hospital handball that gets to a teammate on the full but ends up in a stoppage or turnover (recorded as an effective disposal).

Stats should support an analysis, not be the basis of one.

Agreed 100%

Just wanted to know where to find them

 

[JUSTWORK]

I like spp, he's a gun, just don't think dont arguing people should be used as a reason for winning the rising star. I think it's down to him and burton.

I do agree to it being a two horse race between those two ! But there certainly a lot more to him then that, being a first pick inside mid in a top 4 team who is 3rd in the comp for contested posetions says a lot ! He's arguably having more of an impact then any first year player ever has.

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

I do agree to it being a two horse race between those two ! But there certainly a lot more to him then that, being a first pick inside mid in a top 4 team who is 3rd in the comp for contested posetions says a lot ! He's arguably having more of an impact then any first year player ever has.

Gee laying it on a bit thick there. More impact than any first year player ever?

What does it matter if he's in a team that is 3rd for contested possession? How does playing alongside strong contested players make him any better?

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I do agree to it being a two horse race between those two ! But there certainly a lot more to him then that, being a first pick inside mid in a top 4 team who is 3rd in the comp for contested posetions says a lot ! He's arguably having more of an impact then any first year player ever has.

Impact? Judd and Selwood have him covered.

 

[HairyO]

and how many players ragdoll Burgouyne ?

In a practice match?

No idea.

But since when did practice matches count for anything other than having a bit of a kick and a run?

 

[JUSTWORK]

Gee laying it on a bit thick there. More impact than any first year player ever?

What does it matter if he's in a team that is 3rd for contested possession? How does playing alongside strong contested players make him any better?

I said arguably, so the two you've comes up with are Judd (arguably the second best mid of the past 15 years only behind Abblett) and selwood one of the best Mids currently playing.

Looking at their stats, compared with Judd SPP is ahead in disposals 15 V 18.2 and on par with goals 1 V 0.9 and ahead in tackles 2.9 V 4.2 (doesnt mention broken takles, SPP is only behind Martin for broken takles this year)

and Selwood is ahead by 1 disposal but only got 1/3 as many goals.

So id say to say one of the best first year players is very fair.

 

[TerryWallet]

I said arguably, so the two you've comes up with are Judd (arguably the second best mid of the past 15 years only behind Abblett) and selwood one of the best Mids currently playing.

Looking at their stats, compared with Judd SPP is ahead in disposals 15 V 18.2 and on par with goals 1 V 0.9 and ahead in tackles 2.9 V 4.2 (doesnt mention broken takles, SPP is only behind Martin for broken takles this year)

and Selwood is ahead by 1 disposal but only got 1/3 as many goals.

So id say to say one of the best first year players is very fair.

Very solid argument right there.

I heard Ollie Wines speaking the other night and he was asked about SPP considering that he also had a very good 1st year as a similar type player. Now we've all seen umpteen players do the false modesty routine in public interviews over the years, but Ollie's instinctive and succinct answer that wtte "SPP's year puts mine in the shade a bit" seemed genuine and was a bit eye opening.

I reckon he has been going under the radar a bit in Vic.

He is mighty impressive. Physically dominant already and a quality player. Not just a scrapper. I've seen him kick goals that only quality players kick.

 

[JUSTWORK]

Very solid argument right there.

I heard Ollie Wines speaking the other night and he was asked about SPP considering that he also had a very good 1st year as a similar type player. Now we've all seen umpteen players do the false modesty routine in public interviews over the years, but Ollie's instinctive and succinct answer that wtte "SPP's year puts mine in the shade a bit" seemed genuine and was a bit eye opening.

I reckon he has been going under the radar a bit in Vic.

He is mighty impressive. Physically dominant already and a quality player. Not just a scrapper. I've seen him kick goals that only quality players kick.

Spot on, watch his 3 goals from round one. Hard to believe that its a guy playing his first game !

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

I said arguably, so the two you've comes up with are Judd (arguably the second best mid of the past 15 years only behind Abblett) and selwood one of the best Mids currently playing.

Looking at their stats, compared with Judd SPP is ahead in disposals 15 V 18.2 and on par with goals 1 V 0.9 and ahead in tackles 2.9 V 4.2 (doesnt mention broken takles, SPP is only behind Martin for broken takles this year)

and Selwood is ahead by 1 disposal but only got 1/3 as many goals.

So id say to say one of the best first year players is very fair.

You said "he's arguably having more of an impact than any other first year player ever" - a very different statement than he's one of the best.

He's arguably not even having more of an impact than the other 2017 RS nominees (i.e. Burton has been holding our defense together and would most likely be top 5 in our B&F).

 

[JUSTWORK]

You said "he's arguably having more of an impact than any other first year player ever" - a very different statement than he's one of the best.

He's arguably not even having more of an impact than the other 2017 RS nominees (i.e. Burton has been holding our defense together and would most likely be top 5 in our B&F).

one of the best first year / more of an impact then any first year player is basically saying the same thing....Its also worth noting Burton isnt a first year player either, he's a second year player.

Im not arguing Burton isn't a gun as he clearly is, just saying SPP is a more deserving rising star winner.

 

[Baird]

This is who i'd vote 5-1

5. Burton
4. Powell-Pepper
3. McGrath
2. Marchbank
1. Curnow

 

[james Dean]

If I were voting;

5- McGrath
4 - Burton
3 - SPP
2 - Hipwood
1 - Curnow

 

[Beer n Skittles]

5. Powell-Pepper
4. Burton
3. McGrath
2. Marchbank
1. Curnow

 

[Adz2332]

This years rising star is a cracker!