Mega Thread 2018 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread

[Lach72]

Is it the players or the S&C guys?

I dunno. I know I’m ******* sick of it. We’re having to constantly plug holes in the list because they’re constantly damn injured.

Logue Switkowski and North have barley managed 10 games this year between them. Logue could’ve been close to 30 games now getting the experience to replace Johnson. Instead he’s injured twice and then has a season ending operation for a foot problem that somehow wasn’t picked up before we drafted him or in the year after.

Weber looks like a complete gronk. His results are ******* atrocious

 

[nurries]

I dunno. I know I’m ******* sick of it. We’re having to constantly plug holes in the list because they’re constantly damn injured.

Logue Switkowski and North have barley managed 10 games this year between them. Logue could’ve been close to 30 games now getting the experience to replace Johnson. Instead he’s injured twice and then has a season ending operation for a foot problem that somehow wasn’t picked up before we drafted him or in the year after.

Weber looks like a complete gronk. His results are ******* atrocious

Agree Weber and his team is a disease

 

[Van_Dyke]

Guarantee you Balla gets reported in his last game.

I’m still disappointed we didn’t give Dawson a farewell game last year for that exact reason

 

[TheMcManusNose]

I dunno. I know I’m ******* sick of it. We’re having to constantly plug holes in the list because they’re constantly damn injured.

Logue Switkowski and North have barley managed 10 games this year between them. Logue could’ve been close to 30 games now getting the experience to replace Johnson. Instead he’s injured twice and then has a season ending operation for a foot problem that somehow wasn’t picked up before we drafted him or in the year after.

Weber looks like a complete gronk. His results are ******* atrocious

Switkowski has pinged hammies. We don't have a chronic hammy problem like Adelaide did to start the year. I fail to see how that is foreseeable.

Ditto the Logue issue. You don't scan or investigate every inch of these kids, that'd be irresponsible and throw up more issues than it solves. Until it presents you probably don't know the issue exists. Frustrating, sure, but I don't see it as being anyone's fault.

 

[Lach72]

Switkowski has pinged hammies. We don't have a chronic hammy problem like Adelaide did to start the year. I fail to see how that is foreseeable.

Ditto the Logue issue. You don't scan or investigate every inch of these kids, that'd be irresponsible and throw up more issues than it solves. Until it presents you probably don't know the issue exists. Frustrating, sure, but I don't see it as being anyone's fault.

Sure. Must be just magic we’re constantly injured


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[Kram]

Maybe it's just me I find it hard to make an assessment being neither a medical professional or at the club.

 

[theGav56]

Any Club's injury record should be assessed against the other clubs. You need to benchmark, not work from anecdotes.

 

[Lach72]

Maybe it's just me I find it hard to make an assessment being neither a medical professional or at the club.

Sure. Ross on re other hand isn’t.
One of his mantras when he arrived was “fit and available”. We’ve had * all of that


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[Joao]

Any Club's injury record should be assessed against the other clubs. You need to benchmark, not work from anecdotes.

Yes and even that needs proper analysis.

 

[Unique Name]

2016 - Top of the injury ladder


2017 - Top 4 of the injury ladder



2018 - Can't find a ladder of the season yet but I'd hazard a guess we'd be up there again.

 

[Paracleet]

2016 - Top of the injury ladder
View attachment 535940

2017 - Top 4 of the injury ladder
View attachment 535941


2018 - Can't find a ladder of the season yet but I'd hazard a guess we'd be up there again.

That's comparing two different things. 2016 is ranking points lost whereas the 2017 one is raw games missed.
2017 I think we were well down the list for injuries to 'best 22' players. This page says 10th https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/th...s/news-story/051c4db537baeb15305ac5b9e0af75ac

 

[dockerfemme]

That's comparing two different things. 2016 is ranking points lost whereas the 2017 one is raw games missed.
2017 I think we were well down the list for injuries to 'best 22' players. This page says 10th https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/th...s/news-story/051c4db537baeb15305ac5b9e0af75ac

The 2016 ladder shows us as first for ranking points lost, third for total games lost.

It is hard to determine exactly what the 2017 ladder shows, provided by Unique Name. The link you provided is dated July 2017 so only evaluates about 2/3 of the season. It shows us as 2nd for total games lost, but 10th when ranking points are taken into account. This could be because our players are not worth high ranking points, or because injuries were to lower ranked players.

The information provided by you and Unique Name certainly suggests that in 2016 and 2017 we were in the worst quartile for having a fit and available list.

 

[dominguez]

For a 26 year old it's just a huge price to pay i.e. 1 of - Lukosius, Walsh, King x2, Rankine, Bailey Smith, Rozee, Hill or Bailey Williams. Hill and Smith certainly gone by 14.

Keep the pick.

Many of those guys will be gone by pick 7 any way so we are not giving up Lukosius etc.

It depends on where the club think Hill will go. Missed games through suspension and certainly isn't a sure thing to go top 10. If we can downgrade our pick for someone who is in our best 22 and still draft Hill it is a win-win.

 

[Taylor]

In 2017 the average lost games through injury was 141.3, through 37.8 incidences of injury.

Roughly 4% of injury was knee, 0.56% being ACL.

Now you'll see how a sample size so small as an AFL club isn't going to produce very reliable raw stats based off total games missed as a metric for injury comparison between clubs.

An ACL injury can end the season, 22 potential games missed, 0.53% of injury should account for 0.75 games missed - but it can result in 2,933% greater than that.

That creates such a massive distortion.
I'd advise against using it.

 

[kp junior]

Many of those guys will be gone by pick 7 any way so we are not giving up Lukosius etc.

About 6 of them will be gone


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[dominguez]

About 6 of them will be gone


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Maybe more.

 

[Swan Districts Kid]

Plus injury stats like those graphs don't take into account the walking wounded - guys we have to play compromised because they've missed preseasons/missed sections of the season/carrying lingering injuries eg Hill Bros, Alex Pearce, Sean Darcy, etc.

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[Monument Hills]

as humans, we love simple answers (often black and white) to complex problems. Unfortunately, that is naive.

Injuries are going to occur to athletes who: play in a contact sport with 35 other players running in both directions, train with 43 other players during the week, push their bodies in a gym, twist and turn and fall on slippery grass with or without 80+ kg bodies falling on them, get pushed off balance before they land in marking contests, with 60+kg 18yos playing on 100+kg 30yos, bodies still growing in height, 40km/h+ collisions (learn some physics before criticizing that one). That's a recipe for injuries. There's no way to say otherwise.

Why do some teams have longer inj lists than others? Luck, average age of their players is higher but not too high, some players protect themselves more than others,some teams control the ball better so less contested possessions (e.g. the accurate kicking of Hawthorn), some players naturally just don't break down as often as others (I was one of those), teams delist injury prone players quicker, plus many more factors. Even the PEDs Essendon took affected them - even though it allowed them to train and run harder for longer, they had more hamstring injuries towards the end of that year than have ever been seen in one team.

All teams have injuries or players playing sore/hurt. Ask Buddy how he is going?

This constant looking for individual scapegoats when all along we were told we have turned over the list, we are playing the kids, they will take time to learn the game at this level and for their bodies to adjust, they will be inconsistent, much of our 22 each week has hardly played together before. We knew at the start of the year that would mean we would probably lose more than we won. Did anyone honestly think we'd be pushing into the top 8? We were smashing teams like our current team back in 2013 and 2015 with no remorse. So when we are losing these games we expected (with rational minds) we would lose, what's with all the bleating and woe is me talk when we do. Because we look like crap. Yes, you do look average when you lose. As I said, we made many teams look average with no game plans when we were dominating teams 2013-15.

If it's affecting your mental state too much at the moment, turn the footy off and do some gardening or hang out with your family and come back to it next year. I saw one melt yesterday talking about the culture of the club and how bad it is now. Well how about the culture of the supporters. We had one sh5t year in 2016. Then in the two years later we have turned over most of the list even attracting good players back to Perth. But OMG, how come we're not good already? Geez, you would think as supporters we had a bit more backbone when it came to going through the tough times after our history. Though I will state that it doesn't help when the local media are constantly negative towards all things Freo all of the time, true or made up - after a while I think many of us start to believe all that is being written.

rant/

 

[Ysaye]

as humans, we love simple answers (often black and white) to complex problems. Unfortunately, that is naive.

Injuries are going to occur to athletes who: play in a contact sport with 35 other players running in both directions, train with 43 other players during the week, push their bodies in a gym, twist and turn and fall on slippery grass with or without 80+ kg bodies falling on them, get pushed off balance before they land in marking contests, with 60+kg 18yos playing on 100+kg 30yos, bodies still growing in height, 40km/h+ collisions (learn some physics before criticizing that one). That's a recipe for injuries. There's no way to say otherwise.

Why do some teams have longer inj lists than others? Luck, average age of their players is higher but not too high, some players protect themselves more than others,some teams control the ball better so less contested possessions (e.g. the accurate kicking of Hawthorn), some players naturally just don't break down as often as others (I was one of those), teams delist injury prone players quicker, plus many more factors. Even the PEDs Essendon took affected them - even though it allowed them to train and run harder for longer, they had more hamstring injuries towards the end of that year than have ever been seen in one team.

All teams have injuries or players playing sore/hurt. Ask Buddy how he is going?

This constant looking for individual scapegoats when all along we were told we have turned over the list, we are playing the kids, they will take time to learn the game at this level and for their bodies to adjust, they will be inconsistent, much of our 22 each week has hardly played together before. We knew at the start of the year that would mean we would probably lose more than we won. Did anyone honestly think we'd be pushing into the top 8? We were smashing teams like our current team back in 2013 and 2015 with no remorse. So when we are losing these games we expected (with rational minds) we would lose, what's with all the bleating and woe is me talk when we do. Because we look like crap. Yes, you do look average when you lose. As I said, we made many teams look average with no game plans when we were dominating teams 2013-15.

If it's affecting your mental state too much at the moment, turn the footy off and do some gardening or hang out with your family and come back to it next year. I saw one melt yesterday talking about the culture of the club and how bad it is now. Well how about the culture of the supporters. We had one sh5t year in 2016. Then in the two years later we have turned over most of the list even attracting good players back to Perth. But OMG, how come we're not good already? Geez, you would think as supporters we had a bit more backbone when it came to going through the tough times after our history. Though I will state that it doesn't help when the local media are constantly negative towards all things Freo all of the time, true or made up - after a while I think many of us start to believe all that is being written.

rant/

I nominate this for post of the year.

 

[Unique Name]

as humans, we love simple answers (often black and white) to complex problems. Unfortunately, that is naive.

Injuries are going to occur to athletes who: play in a contact sport with 35 other players running in both directions, train with 43 other players during the week, push their bodies in a gym, twist and turn and fall on slippery grass with or without 80+ kg bodies falling on them, get pushed off balance before they land in marking contests, with 60+kg 18yos playing on 100+kg 30yos, bodies still growing in height, 40km/h+ collisions (learn some physics before criticizing that one). That's a recipe for injuries. There's no way to say otherwise.

So basically you're putting alot of our injuries down to luck, something we have little control over. That's sounds awfully like a simple answer to me.

In all employees you will find a range of abilities. Some will be good at their job, some great, some not so good. Generally the best are paid the most. Is it possible to manage an injury poorly? Is it possible to misdiagnose? From the outside we just don't know where Weber is in that range. Forgot one second about comparing against other clubs, have injuries been one part of our issues over the last few seasons? Then our injury management/prevention program and those in charge need to be under review. Weber is the top dog of our S&C team and it's his neck that should be on the line.

Multiple things have gone wrong over the past few years and it's lead us to a third straight year in the bottom 6, their isn't a single scapegoat. From my armchair, our injuries (prevention and management) are worse than the AFL average and it's something that can be improved upon. This isn't the thread to discuss every issue so I'll leave my other gripes for another time.

Curious though, do you think anything needs to change? Or is it simply that the boys need to get another two preseasons under their belts and we'll be pushing the top 4? Are you happy for the status quo to continue?

 

[Paracleet]

So basically you're putting alot of our injuries down to luck, something we have little control over. That's sounds awfully like a simple answer to me.

It's also probably true. All things being equal injuries are likely to be distributed along a normal curve with some clubs being lucky and others unlucky with most in the middle. Now this doesn't mean you don't have a bad strength and conditioning team, but this can only be judged by outside expert review; not results since luck is likely to bury the signal.
This calling for Webbers head is classic results over process stuff.

 

[Unique Name]

It's also probably true. All things being equal injuries are likely to be distributed along a normal curve with some clubs being lucky and others unlucky with most in the middle. Now this doesn't mean you don't have a bad strength and conditioning team, but this can only be judged by outside expert review; not results since luck is likely to bury the signal.
This calling for Webbers head is classic results over process stuff.

But all things being equal would be a massive assumption. My point was that I don't believe that our S&C team are equal to their counterparts and should be under review.

Zero way to prove anything without the inside word though.

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

Sorry people, Tucker is worth a fourth round pick and Sheridan, a sixth round pick.

No point trading Tucker.

If Darcy Tucker gets picked in the remaining games he plays his 50th with us in the Collingwood game. Why would we trade a 21 year old 50 game player who has played those games in 3 years so he is a player we would want to retain even if just for his resilience and future development potential.

 

[wild side]

If Darcy Tucker gets picked in the remaining games he plays his 50th with us in the Collingwood game. Why would we trade a 21 year old 50 game player who has played those games in 3 years so he is a player we would want to retain even if just for his resilience and future development potential.

Tucker will stay!!

 

[theGav56]

Curious though, do you think anything needs to change? Or is it simply that the boys need to get another two preseasons under their belts and we'll be pushing the top 4?

No matter what I think this is the biggest part of the puzzle in our quest for a premiership. Where the most improvement will come from.

But I also hope that every potential thing that can improve us is explored. Top to bottom, and not just now, but ongoing.