Play Nice 2019 Non AFL Admin, Crowds, Ratings, Participation etc thread

[Gigantor]

While that might be your opinion, it is clear that the people who matter (ie the advertisers) do if they're willing to put more advertising dollars into combined regionals than they are into Melbourne.

Actually, it's pretty clear that's not the case.

 

[TigerTime_89]

If we can't compare AFL and NRL TV Ratings, can we have a seperate thread?

 

[abcde12345]

Actually, it's pretty clear that's not the case.

LINK

That shows the advertising revenue as provided by channel 7, 9 and 10 for each region. If you have contradicting data from a reputable source then I would encourage you to provide it so I can factor it in for the future. Based on these figures though (supplied by KPMG), it is clear that what I am saying is the case, unless you are arguing that 355 is bigger than 390?

Again, if you can provide some actual sources for your information it would be helpful for me.

 

[abcde12345]

Lets hope the AFL cheerleaders can stop flagellating long enough to understand, in some cases better understand the implications of this sector.

Surprised you didnt attribute a number of your conclusions, The raw numbers are what the TV industry base use when bidding for the media rights.

I agree that it is pointless for people to claim everything the AFL does is great and vice versa for everything else.

I'd say that there are some way more relevant factors to TV stations than raw numbers though. Particularly advertising minutes per broadcast, demographic of viewers, brand reputation and conversion rates.

Balanced discussion is definitely the aim though.

 

[jatz14]

LINK

That shows the advertising revenue as provided by channel 7, 9 and 10 for each region. If you have contradicting data from a reputable source then I would encourage you to provide it so I can factor it in for the future. Based on these figures though (supplied by KPMG), it is clear that what I am saying is the case, unless you are arguing that 355 is bigger than 390?

Again, if you can provide some actual sources for your information it would be helpful for me.

Your own figures show your interpretation as misleading.

First, Melbourne is a market. Regional is not, especially when lumping together every region in Australia.

Melbourne accounts for about 7 in every 8 dollars in Vic. In WA, Perth accounts for more than 9 in every 10.

If you aggregate every region into 1 number, and then treat it like it's a market, then the number is impressive.


Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[abcde12345]

Your own figures show your interpretation as misleading.

First, Melbourne is a market. Regional is not, especially when lumping together every region in Australia.

Melbourne accounts for about 7 in every 8 dollars in Vic. In WA, Perth accounts for more than 9 in every 10.

If you aggregate every region into 1 number, and then treat it like it's a market, then the number is impressive.


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Agreed. I mentioned that in an earlier post.

But this isn't what I was discussing. One poster was claiming that noone cares about regional figures. I was using the aggregated regional advertising revenue as a metric to show that this isn't an opinion the advertisers share.

I think regional figures should be taken with a grain of salt, however, due to a variety of issues, particularly the double counting in the NRL markets. But if that much money is being spent across the regional markets, then the regional ratings should be factored into the TV ratings in my opinion. Fair enough?

It's just a shame that the regional measures are so flawed...

 

[Professor Knowall]

If we can't compare AFL and NRL TV Ratings, can we have a seperate thread?

We don't need a separate thread. This thread is the perfect, appropriate place for such comparisons to be made.

 

[TigerTime_89]

We don't need a separate thread. This thread is the perfect, appropriate place for such comparisons to be made.

I agree. Other seem not to like it however.

 

[Professor Knowall]

I agree. Other seem not to like it however.

Yeah, haha, perhaps one in particular, but this remains the right thread for comparisons.

 

[NoobPie]

I think we should keep regionals out of the comparisons though, given their unreliability.

And we should convert average ratings into hours to best ensure a like for like comparison when aggregating multiple matches

 

[abcde12345]

I think we should keep regionals out of the comparisons though, given their unreliability.

And we should convert average ratings into hours to best ensure a like for like comparison when aggregating multiple matches

Regionals have been pretty even anyway so far this year. Slight favour to the NRL, but they have the double counting advantage too so I don't think it's really adding a great deal.

Rating minutes would probably be valuable. With all the talk about lower scores affecting advertising revenue, maybe actual advertising time by average ratings would be an insightful metric too.

 

[NoobPie]

NRL foxtel ratings down compared to the first saturday of the AFL season last year (which was round 3 compared to round 2 this year)

254K, 211K and 165K this year compared with 282K 247K and 175K last year

1.26M viewer hours this year down from 1.408M last year - 12% drop

Purely as a benchmark, the AFL's foxtel viewer hours yesterday were about 2.1M...which was up at least 38%. Note, this excludes perhaps 2.5M extra view hours watching on FTA (assuming the regionals and two games in Adelaide each got over 100k averages)

 

[Rabman]

NRL foxtel ratings down compared to the first saturday of the AFL season last year (which was round 3 compared to round 2 this year)

254K, 211K and 165K this year compared with 282K 247K and 175K last year

1.26M viewer hours this year down from 1.408M last year - 12% drop

Purely as a benchmark, the AFL's foxtel viewer hours yesterday were about 2.1M...which was up at least 38%. Note, this excludes perhaps 2.5M extra view hours watching on FTA (assuming the regionals and two games in Adelaide each got over 100k averages)

Wonder how much of an impact the NSW election had on the numbers.

 

[The_Wookie]

RUGBY LEAGUE ON 9NOW

• Round 2 Rugby League programming on 9Now had 3.6 million LIVE VPM minutes streamed.
• This is up 101% year-on-year compared to Round 2 in 2018
• Stream starts are up 95% year-on-year compared to Round 2 in 2018

source: Nine Publicity.

 

[Our Game]

3.6 million LIVE VPM minutes streamed. = about 60,000 hours viewing

AFL Matches one Match ave say 1,200,000 x 1.5 - 2 hours per viewer = 1,800,000 2,400,000 hours viewing

 

[NoobPie]

3.6 million LIVE VPM minutes streamed. = about 60,000 hours viewing

AFL Matches one Match ave say 1,200,000 x 1.5 - 2 hours per viewer = 1,800,000 2,400,000 hours viewing

closer to 3.6M hours of viewing actually

The OZtam VPM ratings actually highlight the limitations of average ratings figures given the game length of AFL and NRL matches

So this is the top 10 live streamed programs from participating media companies for last week. The Crows Hawks game got the most streaming minutes of all the sporting events for the week and was the second highest in terms of stream starts. Despite this, because of the larger denominator, it ended up with a lower VPM rating than 4 of the 5 NRL stand alone foxtel games. The Raiders v Storm game was actually only a 100 minute program meaning it ended up with the same rounded VPM rating despite having less than 2/3rds of the viewer minutes...

 

[Our Game]

closer to 3.6M hours of viewing actually

The OZtam VPM ratings actually highlight the limitations of average ratings figures given the game length of AFL and NRL matches

I was being conservative not to upset all the NRL luvvies on here Of course it would be closer to 3.million hours.

 

[Kwality]

WHAT is rugby union doing:
https://thewest.com.au/sport/rugby-...-teams-from-japan-south-africa-ng-b881148605z

At least Twiggy is not letting Japan down.

 

[Kwality]

https://www.regionaltam.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/2019-Maps-Postcodes.pdf

Might help the cheerleader set.

 

[abcde12345]

https://www.regionaltam.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/2019-Maps-Postcodes.pdf

Might help the cheerleader set.

As I outlined last week I don't think it will have that effect. That map combined with the OZTAM maps clearly show a huge amount of overlap in the rugby states compared to the AFL states (including omission of several AFL states).

I think the regional market is important considering the advertiser investment into it, but the RegionalTAM figures are extremely misleading and heavily favour the NRL through double counting in their strong markets.

 

[Kwality]

Not sure how the Northern NSW region could be double counted & last time I looked it was larger than both the Perth & Adelaide markets. Obviously
Northern NSW is NRL territory.

 

[abcde12345]

Not sure how the Northern NSW region could be double counted & last time I looked it was larger than both the Perth & Adelaide markets. Obviously
Northern NSW is NRL territory.

The North NSW region includes 26 postcode areas from Gold Coast and Tweed that are included in the Brisbane Metro figures. This double counts roughly 700,000 people according to ABS 2016 census figures which for reference is roughly a third of the NNSW population according to RegionalTAM. So the double counting is definitely very significant.

Specifically, the double counted figures are as follows:

Region	Double Counted Population	Double Counted Households
NNSW	694,681	300,973
QLD	299,104	132,514
Victoria	38,998	16,585

For reference: I do agree that regionals are important due to the significant size of the market. However, the RegionalTAM figures when used in combination with the metro figures are extremely flawed, particularly in favour of the NRL. The way to combat this would be if the breakdown was accessible, and to discount the figures by each regions relevant error (32% for NNSW, 16% for QLD and 3% for Victoria).

 

[Kwality]

The North NSW region includes 26 postcode areas from Gold Coast and Tweed that are included in the Brisbane Metro figures. This double counts roughly 700,000 people according to ABS 2016 census figures which for reference is roughly a third of the NNSW population according to RegionalTAM. So the double counting is definitely very significant.

Specifically, the double counted figures are as follows:

Region	Double Counted Population	Double Counted Households
NNSW	694,681	300,973
QLD	299,104	132,514
Victoria	38,998	16,585

For reference: I do agree that regionals are important due to the significant size of the market. However, the RegionalTAM figures when used in combination with the metro figures are extremely flawed, particularly in favour of the NRL. The way to combat this would be if the breakdown was accessible, and to discount the figures by each regions relevant error (32% for NNSW, 16% for QLD and 3% for Victoria).

Very interesting observation, e.g what are the Brisbane figures that include the double counted representative of in code terms versus the same approach to the effect the double counting has on the regional figures.

Guess any data on advertising might shed some light.

I refer only to NNSW because it is a material region on the national landscape.

 

[abcde12345]

Very interesting observation, e.g what are the Brisbane figures that include the double counted representative of in code terms versus the same approach to the effect the double counting has on the regional figures.

Guess any data on advertising might shed some light.

I refer only to NNSW because it is a material region on the national landscape.

It's hard to know anything too specific because of the general nature of the TV ratings system. The most specific I can really think it would get would be in terms of the list of double counted post codes, which for NNSW are as follows: 4209, 4210, 4211, 4212, 4213, 4214, 4215, 4216, 4217, 4218, 4219, 4220, 4221, 4222, 4223, 4224, 4225, 4226, 4227, 4228, 4230, 2258, 2259, 2261, 2262, 2263. This represents the Gold Coast and some Tweed suburbs which are counted in both the NNSW figures and the Brisbane figures.

In terms of advertising data, the most recent figures I can find are those from the half year ending Jun 2016. However these figures do not line up with the OZTAM and RegionalTAM regions, which again makes it hard to use these to extrapolate a significant amount of information.

LINK

From this, it can be seen that the NSW market is valued at $174m and the QLD market is valued at $89m, while Brisbane is worth $241m.

I just went onto WIN TV's website. It includes Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast as region options - suggesting they are included in the regional figures, not Brisbane, in terms of advertising $. Gold Coast has the same programming as Coffs, Newcastle and Port Macquarie, but different programming to Sunshine Coast, so I would imagine based on this it may be included in the NSW figures. Based on a further look the programming seems to be based around the RegionalTAM borders for the East Coast, so I would theorize that the income from each state is also based on these borders.

This therefore means, technically keeping in line with the advertising revenue, the Brisbane figures should be discounted by a reasonably high percentage, and the Melbourne figures should be discounted by a very small percentage.

 

[Kwality]

Regional figures dollars are cumulative dont isolate NNSW.