Opinion 2019 Non Crows - Watts love got to do with it? #pick1herewecome

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arrowman

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#4
Thanks Frogster.

Carried over from the 2018 thread:

Yes, that's a possibility,
But I was talking the Crows situation not big business, and they wouldn't they have to report full financials as they are also member based. Like they have in the past.
This is just speculation on my part....

So, if a private company (like the PAFC) receives government funding (e.g. for an indigenous centre or whatever it is), they have to provide financials to ASIC. But it doesn't necessarily follow that those financials are available, via ASIC, to anyone who is willing to pay the necessary fee. Because private company. I know if my personal / private business was required to report to ASIC because I received some form of government funding, I wouldn't be happy if that meant my personal / private business's financials were automatically public knowledge.

As I said, just speculation.

As for what the Crows "have to report because they are member based", I don't think that follows either. The club's members are like the customers (sorry, but it's a fair analogy in this case!) of a business. If that business is a public company, the customers can see the financials as published via whatever means - annual report or whatever. If it's a private company, not so much. Those financials have to meet some minimum standard and level of detail, but the breakdown and level of detail is to some extent at the discretion of the company.

Bottom line - in the case of the Crows and eSports / baseball, I don't think the members have any particular right under the relevant laws / regulations to see a breakdown of the financials (internally allocated costs etc) related to those ventures. As members we might have some justification in WANTING to see that information, but we don't have a right to it.

Same goes for Port and the govt grant for the indigenous centre, although in that case the information should, I would think, be easier to unpick from the published financials.
 

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#5
Thanks Frogster.

Carried over from the 2018 thread:



This is just speculation on my part....

So, if a private company (like the PAFC) receives government funding (e.g. for an indigenous centre or whatever it is), they have to provide financials to ASIC. But it doesn't necessarily follow that those financials are available, via ASIC, to anyone who is willing to pay the necessary fee. Because private company. I know if my personal / private business was required to report to ASIC because I received some form of government funding, I wouldn't be happy if that meant my personal / private business's financials were automatically public knowledge.

As I said, just speculation.

As for what the Crows "have to report because they are member based", I don't think that follows either. The club's members are like the customers (sorry, but it's a fair analogy in this case!) of a business. If that business is a public company, the customers can see the financials as published via whatever means - annual report or whatever. If it's a private company, not so much. Those financials have to meet some minimum standard and level of detail, but the breakdown and level of detail is to some extent at the discretion of the company.

Bottom line - in the case of the Crows and eSports / baseball, I don't think the members have any particular right under the relevant laws / regulations to see a breakdown of the financials (internally allocated costs etc) related to those ventures. As members we might have some justification in WANTING to see that information, but we don't have a right to it.

Same goes for Port and the govt grant for the indigenous centre, although in that case the information should, I would think, be easier to unpick from the published financials.
The Adelaide Football Club Limited & it controlling entities is a not for profit company limited by guarantee.
Which changes things. a little to what you were saying. Most sporting clubs operate the same way. However some do not, have no idea why.
Under ASIC rules Depending on if they are they are classed as a large company or a small company. Crows consolidated revenue is over $250,000 making it a Large company.
For large companies limited by guarantee – a financial report and a directors' report. must be available to all members,

Therefore I would be surprised if we do not get a full report from the Club on our AFC eSport activities.

What has caused the Problem is I mention to someone that if they did not trust the report apply to ASIC for the full report which I still believe they are entitled to at a cost. and that all Private companies must report there financials to ASIC if they receive government funding.
 

Geoffa32

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#6
I was just reading about Wanganeen saying he had nothing but his house after 16 years of AFL footy and squandering most of his earnings.

He is looking to head up an "AFLPA type" association to assist Aboriginal players.

I have no issue with this at all. As I dont have any issue with the broader AFLPA assisting players in financial education.


However. These guys all employ managers. I would have thought a key service from these managers was player (ie the clients who pay them to "manage" them) financial wellbeing education and assistance.

Surely this would involve protecting their clients from poor investments and general wasting of money.

You would think wealth protection would be a big part of these managers role?



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SaltPeter

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#7
I was just reading about Wanganeen saying he had nothing but his house after 16 years of AFL footy and squandering most of his earnings.

He is looking to head up an "AFLPA type" association to assist Aboriginal players.

I have no issue with this at all. As I dont have any issue with the broader AFLPA assisting players in financial education.


However. These guys all employ managers. I would have thought a key service from these managers was player (ie the clients who pay them to "manage" them) financial wellbeing education and assistance.

Surely this would involve protecting their clients from poor investments and general wasting of money.

You would think wealth protection would be a big part of these managers role?



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Looking at the websites of some of the player managers they do offer a variety of investment services. I imagine some players don't bother or find alternative financial planning services. I cannot imagine this would have been the norm when Wanganeen was playing though. Probably a considerable increase in players incomes since Wanganeen retired.
 

Geoffa32

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#8
Looking at the websites of some of the player managers they do offer a variety of investment services. I imagine some players don't bother or find alternative financial planning services. I cannot imagine this would have been the norm when Wanganeen was playing though. Probably a considerable increase in players incomes since Wanganeen retired.
He would have had a manager, especially late in his career when he invested in a few failed businesses. I recall he owned a gym...

But yeah they do seem to offer those services.

So basically players will pay twice (management fees and Union fees) to not take up advice that could ensure their future is financially secure.....

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arrowman

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#9
For large companies limited by guarantee – a financial report and a directors' report. must be available to all members
OK, and I believe that is what we (and the public at large) get when the club publishes its results.

Therefore I would be surprised if we do not get a full report from the Club on our AFC eSport activities
I guess we'll have to wait and see, but I'm prepared to bet we won't get the level of detail that BF posters would like. The club is obliged to publish financial statements. It is not obliged to provide financial reports / data on any particular part of its activities other than those required by law.

The fact that the club is required to publish a financial report does not imply that that report will be fully detailed to the point where the reader could work out the real cost / input / outputs of any particular aspect of the club's operations.

What has caused the Problem is I mention to someone that if they did not trust the report apply to ASIC for the full report which I still believe they are entitled to at a cost. and that all Private companies must report there financials to ASIC if they receive government funding
I don't know for sure, but I would say, as I did earlier, that
1. Whatever the club provides to ASIC may be no more than the financial statements they publish to the public at large, as part of their annual report, anyway.
2. The fact that the club receives government funding and therefore would be required to report to ASIC (where they otherwise wouldn't) (is that a fact? Let's assume it is) does not imply that the resulting reports would be any more detailed than the ones we already see.
 

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Corvus

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#13
I was just reading about Wanganeen saying he had nothing but his house after 16 years of AFL footy and squandering most of his earnings.

He is looking to head up an "AFLPA type" association to assist Aboriginal players.

I have no issue with this at all. As I dont have any issue with the broader AFLPA assisting players in financial education.


However. These guys all employ managers. I would have thought a key service from these managers was player (ie the clients who pay them to "manage" them) financial wellbeing education and assistance.

Surely this would involve protecting their clients from poor investments and general wasting of money.

You would think wealth protection would be a big part of these managers role?



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Having had a bit to do with "managers" in another industry I picked something up that was never said but implied. Personally makes my skin crawl but I think from what I have seen AFL managers must do something similar. Unfortunately it comes back to basic human nature.
A client who is skint will be hungry. Hungry to change clubs, hungry to play longer, hungry to do endorsements etc. As people earn more it is harder to keep the "client" skint but from what I have seen an enabler manager can keep anyone skint and hungry for the next $$ no matter what they earn. Hope is not true but cynical me thinks it fits the bill all too well
 
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#14
Having had a bit to do with "managers" in another industry I picked something up that was never said but implied. Personally makes my skin crawl but I think from what I have seen AFL managers must do something similar. Unfortunately it comes back to basic human nature.
A client who is skint will be hungry. Hungry to change clubs, hungry to play longer, hungry to do endorsements etc. As people earn more it is harder to keep the "client" skint but from what I have seen an enabler manager can keep anyone skint and hungry for the next $$ no matter what they earn. Hope is not true but cynical me thinks it fits the bill all too well
Football managers are kickback city. You look at what is going on with the royal commission and financial planners not putting their clients interests first due to commissions. Football managers are on another level.
 

Geoffa32

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#15
Having had a bit to do with "managers" in another industry I picked something up that was never said but implied. Personally makes my skin crawl but I think from what I have seen AFL managers must do something similar. Unfortunately it comes back to basic human nature.
A client who is skint will be hungry. Hungry to change clubs, hungry to play longer, hungry to do endorsements etc. As people earn more it is harder to keep the "client" skint but from what I have seen an enabler manager can keep anyone skint and hungry for the next $$ no matter what they earn. Hope is not true but cynical me thinks it fits the bill all too well
Yeah I can see how some managers would manipulate their clients this way.

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Donkey Magoo

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#16
I was just reading about Wanganeen saying he had nothing but his house after 16 years of AFL footy and squandering most of his earnings.

He is looking to head up an "AFLPA type" association to assist Aboriginal players.

I have no issue with this at all. As I dont have any issue with the broader AFLPA assisting players in financial education.


However. These guys all employ managers. I would have thought a key service from these managers was player (ie the clients who pay them to "manage" them) financial wellbeing education and assistance.

Surely this would involve protecting their clients from poor investments and general wasting of money.

You would think wealth protection would be a big part of these managers role?



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I once had a chat with Gary Buckenara who told me a similar story. Apparently, there were a lot of sharks and schemes around the place. Also, players weren't making anywhere near the coin that they are now.
 

Geoffa32

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#17
If Wangas was broke after his career, indictment of his manager... or him

But at least he has a grandstand named after him

(Shouldn’t have that either)
I never understood why an Essendon Brownlow medalist (and not someone like Russell Ebert) got their own grandstand at Adelaide Oval

Almost as amusing as having the Bradman and Basheer stands on opposing sides directly opposite each other.

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FR0GGY

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Thread starter #18
I was just reading about Wanganeen saying he had nothing but his house after 16 years of AFL footy and squandering most of his earnings.

He is looking to head up an "AFLPA type" association to assist Aboriginal players.

I have no issue with this at all. As I dont have any issue with the broader AFLPA assisting players in financial education.


However. These guys all employ managers. I would have thought a key service from these managers was player (ie the clients who pay them to "manage" them) financial wellbeing education and assistance.

Surely this would involve protecting their clients from poor investments and general wasting of money.

You would think wealth protection would be a big part of these managers role?



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https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...meone-you-trust.1208031/page-29#post-58750068
Post #707
(you can't seem to link to a post anymore.)
 

subaru

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#20
I was just reading about Wanganeen saying he had nothing but his house after 16 years of AFL footy and squandering most of his earnings.

He is looking to head up an "AFLPA type" association to assist Aboriginal players.

I have no issue with this at all. As I dont have any issue with the broader AFLPA assisting players in financial education.


However. These guys all employ managers. I would have thought a key service from these managers was player (ie the clients who pay them to "manage" them) financial wellbeing education and assistance.

Surely this would involve protecting their clients from poor investments and general wasting of money.

You would think wealth protection would be a big part of these managers role?



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Not starting something here but why specifically aboriginal ?

Should it matter ? Shouldn’t it be everyone ?

Well maybe I am - I didn’t think we were allowed to be racial
 

Sanders

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#22
Looking at the websites of some of the player managers they do offer a variety of investment services. I imagine some players don't bother or find alternative financial planning services. I cannot imagine this would have been the norm when Wanganeen was playing though. Probably a considerable increase in players incomes since Wanganeen retired.
I think the bigger point is not whether they were offered financial advice, but whether they took it?

Cannot imagine a situation where Wanganeed wasn’t offered all sort of advice at various times, now he regrets not taking it

Players talk, and he’d have known. Besides investments or not, what did he do with his money?
 

Sanders

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#24
In 1994 or whatever Carey was being paid $1million per season
In 1999 Kouta was being paid over $1m per season
In 1996 Lockett was offered over a million per season to join Collingwood (he didn’t)

Don’t tell me Wanganeed played in an era of lower player payments, he played in an era of rampant salary cap cheating, and at club found guilty 2 or 3 times for salary cap cheating in the 1990’s

Don’t tell me he earned less than players of today
 

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#25
OK, and I believe that is what we (and the public at large) get when the club publishes its results.


I guess we'll have to wait and see, but I'm prepared to bet we won't get the level of detail that BF posters would like. The club is obliged to publish financial statements. It is not obliged to provide financial reports / data on any particular part of its activities other than those required by law.

The fact that the club is required to publish a financial report does not imply that that report will be fully detailed to the point where the reader could work out the real cost / input / outputs of any particular aspect of the club's operations.


I don't know for sure, but I would say, as I did earlier, that
1. Whatever the club provides to ASIC may be no more than the financial statements they publish to the public at large, as part of their annual report, anyway.
2. The fact that the club receives government funding and therefore would be required to report to ASIC (where they otherwise wouldn't) (is that a fact? Let's assume it is) does not imply that the resulting reports would be any more detailed than the ones we already see.
All the Info I posted is on the ASIC web page. Under a limited grantee and being a large company the Clubs financial have to be available to the members. Either by the Club or I believe you can get a copy thru ASIC but it cost you.

Also This info is from the 2017 financial report. which in past years does not get signed of by the club until Feb,
The Financial statements are Tier 2 general purpose consolidated finical statements, which also has a reduced disclosure section,
They also mention that it is the consolidated financial statements of the Adelaide Football Club Limited and it controlled entities, as at the period end, (Oct 31)
and that these control entities include AFC eSport Pty Ltd and AFC eSport Trust.
So based on last years report I expect to see the eSport and there Media company reported in this year's financials, but do not expect to see much from the Bite as their financial situation would not be completed.

Look I am not a Financial person all I do is read the report every year front to back and back to front. and contact the finance guru if I have any problems or questions I want to answer. All this info is available on the Club website and on ASIC website for anyone willing to waste there time and look.
One thing I need to ask how many people actually read the financial and directors report supplied by the Club,

Not directed at you but I am surprised that not too many have noticed the eSport reference and some of the details in the report, it looks like people skim and don't read the details and like most reports the devil in the details. the report last year was a good 30 pages and as always has a sign of from a sign of from KPMG.

Just so others can see the Crows financial report is not a 1-page doc he is a link.
https://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AdelaideCrows/PDFs/FINC0019_2017_Financial_Report.pdf
 
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