List Mgmt. 2020 List Management: Contracts, Trading, Drafting, Academy

[Shadow89]

to get you have to give

nothing is for free and no reason for Geelong to feel a sense of entitlement

Tom Lynch.

 

[Andre the Giant]

This probably means Mumford stays an extra year or two =(

Oh no....which means we won’t have a ruckman who can jump and will not win a free kick count until at least 2023!

 

[Gigantic]

Surely we don't persist with Mumford...

Bring in another experienced ruck who has more than a couple years left and start to focus on the succession plan for Flynn

 

[fridgeman]

I know it was mentioned a few years ago but maybe Preuss will look to be a 1st choice option

 

[Gigantic]

I know it was mentioned a few years ago but maybe Preuss will look to be a 1st choice option

I'd love him here but going by his decision to join Melbourne, don't think being 1st choice ruck is that high up in his list of priorities

 

[PMBangers]

I know it was mentioned a few years ago but maybe Preuss will look to be a 1st choice option

I really don't rate Preuss, don't think he's good enough at tap work or around the ground to warrant bringing him in. I'll stick by Nank/ CCJ as good options, wouldn't mind looking at Ladhams if he's still OOC, even Lynch from Collingwood I like as a guy that could fill other KPP roles with his athleticism, but Preuss I just don't see as a positive addition

 

[fridgeman]

The other interesting option would be Ports Ladhams although he is not that experienced they do have Lycett as a #1 ruck and then Marshall and Dixon can fill in and Sam Hayes as a developing youngster
Swap with Hately and draft picks swapped

 

[Giant Strides]

Wonder if Sam Jacobs jumped (i.e. realised he was shit this year) or was pushed (i.e. the club pressured him to retire)? Answer will dictate whether we're paying out any $ next year under the cap. Hopefully the former and it's nil.

But yet another year where we have to look for a ruck!

BTW, I think it's criminally irresponsible for AFL not to have announced the list size & TPP for next year. Clubs are culling players, players are moving on or re-signing, and yet clubs have no idea what the target is! Are they complete ****ing amateurs or what?

 

[fridgeman]

I think the list sizes and TPP have been informally communicated to the clubs with the AFL wanting maximum media exposure for the games and also to fill oot the bye week and my thoughts are it will be 38 + 2-4

As well as a ruck I hope the club prioritises a experienced senior assistant and not sure on options but Soloman ex Suns has been let go and not sure on others but the soft cap changes should see some looking for a new club and it could be with an option to move into a senior position depending on how things pan out in 2021

 

[Giant Strides]

With Corr leaving, do we purely rely on the draft for a young KPD and existing players (Stein, Keeffe, Idun & Buntine) for cover behind Davis and Taylor, or do we look at an interim KPD as well as a draftee?

There are not too many out there that we could look at, so it might not be worth it. Obviously, if they're avalable - they're not that good! But I'm not talking about getting someone as a first grader, rather an experienced backup player.

Jake Carlisle possibly one. He's never seemed settled at Saints, and possibly on the chopping block come end of season. I'm not a fan, and he's a bit of a dickhead from his drug video from 4/5 years ago. But could sub for Davis if he is out at a better level than Keeffe (although the latter seems very in favour with then match committee). Might cost a bit, although at 29 should not be more than Corr was costing. Might not want to come to NSW anyway.

Kyle Hartigan from Crows seems destined to depart and might be happy to come to NSW to hang oto a career. Also two years older than Corr and very much a whipping boy for Crows' fans - but incredibly similar stats to Corr and I think a similar type player. (In my view we probably didn't need to play 4 talls - Davis, Taylor or Corr and Haynes should have been the setup.) Hartigan would be cheap cover as a likely DFA.

I thought about Majak Daw also, but he's older, less experienced, and IMHO shitter than either of these so wouldn't like to consider.

Marcus Adams from Lions, ex-Bulldogs. A touch shorter at 192cms, only a touch older than Corr, & unable to get a spot in the Lions side - but that's why he's be gettable, and cheap to pay.

I thought about but wouldn't touch Harrison Macreadie from Carlton - the lure would be ex-GWS academy, but he's too injury prone.

Matt Scharenberg from Pies? The knock is his early injuries, but he seemed to get over those but can't break into the team with Darcy Moore moved down back. But showed what he can do with a decent 2018. More a third tall at 191 cms though, similar to Idun, but just would bring in greater experience.

And ... what about Jack Hombsch: ex-GWS, Port, now at Gold Coast and just a year older than Corr. He might be expendable with their current set-up, and offers broadly similar traits to Corr. IMHO we cut him too early and would have been a useful player had we kept him. Obviously he has since been cut by Port, too, so he has his limitations. But as a cheap, gettable backup I'd be willing to look at him.

Of course, we must go to the draft with whatever we get from departing players this year - Williams, Caldwell if they go and Corr should all bring in picks around that mid-first to second round - to seek a long-term KPD replacement for Davis. I'm just thinking about an interim fill-in for a few years.

Thoughts?

 

[Giant Strides]

I think the list sizes and TPP have been informally communicated to the clubs with the AFL wanting maximum media exposure for the games and also to fill oot the bye week and my thoughts are it will be 38 + 2-4

As well as a ruck I hope the club prioritises a experienced senior assistant and not sure on options but Soloman ex Suns has been let go and not sure on others but the soft cap changes should see some looking for a new club and it could be with an option to move into a senior position depending on how things pan out in 2021

That was my thought too - there surely must have been an indication to clubs to allow them to get on with their end of year business.

I've previously said 38 + 2 Cat A rookies (or 40 total list) and maybe 2 Cat B rookies (which particularly gives clubs a route for local & NGA kids, especially for northern clubs) would be my thinking.

The assistant coach clear out gives the club an opportunity to put a strong tactician next to Leon and adjust the gameplan to something more workable. If they don't, then this year's woes will play out again next year.

 

[JC100]

Hopefully we can get a An experienced ruck to come in and help Briggs/Flynn but they really need to be given an opportunity so we can see what they can do. Nankervis? M
Would have been nice to keep Corr but I don’t think it helped with the balance of the back 6 having him in the side. I think a medium sized defender like Cummings or Idun will work better alongside Davis/Taylor/Haynes.

What is most intriguing is the key forwards. We cant play all 4 and be successful. Finlayson just resigned. Riccardi is the future (and probably now), really hoping Cameron signs on cause he will enjoy playing in front of a marking FF. Does that mean HH is set to be traded? For balance I think HH and Jezza are playing for the same spot. Or was Finlayson signing a signal that Jezza is out the door (would be very disappointed in the club)

 

[PMBangers]

With Corr leaving, do we purely rely on the draft for a young KPD and existing players (Stein, Keeffe, Idun & Buntine) for cover behind Davis and Taylor, or do we look at an interim KPD as well as a draftee?

There are not too many out there that we could look at, so it might not be worth it. Obviously, if they're avalable - they're not that good! But I'm not talking about getting someone as a first grader, rather an experienced backup player.

Jake Carlisle possibly one. He's never seemed settled at Saints, and possibly on the chopping block come end of season. I'm not a fan, and he's a bit of a dickhead from his drug video from 4/5 years ago. But could sub for Davis if he is out at a better level than Keeffe (although the latter seems very in favour with then match committee). Might cost a bit, although at 29 should not be more than Corr was costing. Might not want to come to NSW anyway.

Kyle Hartigan from Crows seems destined to depart and might be happy to come to NSW to hang oto a career. Also two years older than Corr and very much a whipping boy for Crows' fans - but incredibly similar stats to Corr and I think a similar type player. (In my view we probably didn't need to play 4 talls - Davis, Taylor or Corr and Haynes should have been the setup.) Hartigan would be cheap cover as a likely DFA.

I thought about Majak Daw also, but he's older, less experienced, and IMHO shitter than either of these so wouldn't like to consider.

Marcus Adams from Lions, ex-Bulldogs. A touch shorter at 192cms, only a touch older than Corr, & unable to get a spot in the Lions side - but that's why he's be gettable, and cheap to pay.

I thought about but wouldn't touch Harrison Macreadie from Carlton - the lure would be ex-GWS academy, but he's too injury prone.

Matt Scharenberg from Pies? The knock is his early injuries, but he seemed to get over those but can't break into the team with Darcy Moore moved down back. But showed what he can do with a decent 2018. More a third tall at 191 cms though, similar to Idun, but just would bring in greater experience.

And ... what about Jack Hombsch: ex-GWS, Port, now at Gold Coast and just a year older than Corr. He might be expendable with their current set-up, and offers broadly similar traits to Corr. IMHO we cut him too early and would have been a useful player had we kept him. Obviously he has since been cut by Port, too, so he has his limitations. But as a cheap, gettable backup I'd be willing to look at him.

Of course, we must go to the draft with whatever we get from departing players this year - Williams, Caldwell if they go and Corr should all bring in picks around that mid-first to second round - to seek a long-term KPD replacement for Davis. I'm just thinking about an interim fill-in for a few years.

Thoughts?

The only name that interests me there is Carlisle, the rest I don't think would be adding anything but experience for us, which isn't necessarily a need as it stands

 

[Giant Pete]

With Corr leaving, do we purely rely on the draft for a young KPD and existing players (Stein, Keeffe, Idun & Buntine) for cover behind Davis and Taylor, or do we look at an interim KPD as well as a draftee?

There are not too many out there that we could look at, so it might not be worth it. Obviously, if they're avalable - they're not that good! But I'm not talking about getting someone as a first grader, rather an experienced backup player.

Jake Carlisle possibly one. He's never seemed settled at Saints, and possibly on the chopping block come end of season. I'm not a fan, and he's a bit of a dickhead from his drug video from 4/5 years ago. But could sub for Davis if he is out at a better level than Keeffe (although the latter seems very in favour with then match committee). Might cost a bit, although at 29 should not be more than Corr was costing. Might not want to come to NSW anyway.

Kyle Hartigan from Crows seems destined to depart and might be happy to come to NSW to hang oto a career. Also two years older than Corr and very much a whipping boy for Crows' fans - but incredibly similar stats to Corr and I think a similar type player. (In my view we probably didn't need to play 4 talls - Davis, Taylor or Corr and Haynes should have been the setup.) Hartigan would be cheap cover as a likely DFA.

I thought about Majak Daw also, but he's older, less experienced, and IMHO shitter than either of these so wouldn't like to consider.

Marcus Adams from Lions, ex-Bulldogs. A touch shorter at 192cms, only a touch older than Corr, & unable to get a spot in the Lions side - but that's why he's be gettable, and cheap to pay.

I thought about but wouldn't touch Harrison Macreadie from Carlton - the lure would be ex-GWS academy, but he's too injury prone.

Matt Scharenberg from Pies? The knock is his early injuries, but he seemed to get over those but can't break into the team with Darcy Moore moved down back. But showed what he can do with a decent 2018. More a third tall at 191 cms though, similar to Idun, but just would bring in greater experience.

And ... what about Jack Hombsch: ex-GWS, Port, now at Gold Coast and just a year older than Corr. He might be expendable with their current set-up, and offers broadly similar traits to Corr. IMHO we cut him too early and would have been a useful player had we kept him. Obviously he has since been cut by Port, too, so he has his limitations. But as a cheap, gettable backup I'd be willing to look at him.

Of course, we must go to the draft with whatever we get from departing players this year - Williams, Caldwell if they go and Corr should all bring in picks around that mid-first to second round - to seek a long-term KPD replacement for Davis. I'm just thinking about an interim fill-in for a few years.

Thoughts?

Non of those are much good I reckon. We would be way better turning Himmelberg into a defender. He knows our systems and is a good kick.

 

[Giant Strides]

Hopefully we can get a An experienced ruck to come in and help Briggs/Flynn but they really need to be given an opportunity so we can see what they can do. Nankervis? M
Would have been nice to keep Corr but I don’t think it helped with the balance of the back 6 having him in the side. I think a medium sized defender like Cummings or Idun will work better alongside Davis/Taylor/Haynes.

What is most intriguing is the key forwards. We cant play all 4 and be successful. Finlayson just resigned. Riccardi is the future (and probably now), really hoping Cameron signs on cause he will enjoy playing in front of a marking FF. Does that mean HH is set to be traded? For balance I think HH and Jezza are playing for the same spot. Or was Finlayson signing a signal that Jezza is out the door (would be very disappointed in the club)

I think that (providing we keep Jezza) the normal forward setup should be Cameron - Riccardi - HH/Finlayson. The last two playing for the same spot; hopefully we signed ToJ on extremely cheaply (that he didn't want to leave NSW). That fourth forward is then the spare in case of injuries; Jack Buckley the second spare. I wouldn't mind if we picked up a young KPF to see how he develops. 6 would be enough given the likely list/TPP reductions - which probably puts Sproule out the door I'm afraid.

Agree on the set-up in defence, drop to a standard 2 KPD plus Haynes the interceptor. Davis & Taylor the standard KPD setup. In the long term, if Idun can come on, he's the ideal '7th defender'. i.e. 3 talls including Haynes, 3 medium/small runners, and someone like Idun who can play small or tall as required, and run out of defence and has good footskills. But he's got a way to improve to become a regular, based on last night's showing.

 

[Colonial]

Wonder who we will look at through the Academy?

 

[Giant Strides]

Non of those are much good I reckon. We would be way better turning Himmelberg into a defender. He knows our systems and is a good kick.

If they were too good they wouldn't be available! I would have made the same suggestion about HH as you: until the last half of this season - how he's approached tall contests has not inspired me. Buckley more likely to be turned into a defender, hence a previous post of mine (after last week's game) along those lines.

I'm just unconvinced by Keeffe, Stein, Idun and Buntine as credible backups - especially over an extended period as occurred this year - and think a couple on that list might be better than what we've got at the moment. Backups yes, but able to slot into a spot for an extended period of injury/unavailability, while we develop a draftee or two for the long term.

 

[Giant Strides]

Wonder who we will look at through the Academy?

View attachment 965229

Fahey & Stening are next year's draft.

I think we don't take anyone this year. Josh Green the only faint possibility - think that only occurs if there's a Cat B spot open and we do it more to keep Tom happy and in hope that Josh might develop.

 

[fridgeman]

I would be worried about those that didnt play a senior game this year in Buntine, Sproule, Shipley but again it depends on the list size changes and how many picks they want to take to the draft and I actually think with the reserves playing v VFL teams it will give the coaches a better idea of the potential of the listed players and academy players and also it will be important to keep some experienced players around to coach onfield
I would like Buckley to play as a KPD and Sproule to play forward and Shipley will be lucky to stay on the list and it could depend on how many draft picks they want to bring in and any DFA's

 

[Giant Strides]

I would be worried about those that didnt play a senior game this year in Buntine, Sproule, Shipley but again it depends on the list size changes and how many picks they want to take to the draft and I actually think with the reserves playing v VFL teams it will give the coaches a better idea of the potential of the listed players and academy players and also it will be important to keep some experienced players around to coach onfield
I would like Buckley to play as a KPD and Sproule to play forward and Shipley will be lucky to stay on the list and it could depend on how many draft picks they want to bring in and any DFA's

I'd go the other way. I think Buntine is fine - only because he's contracted to next year - unless another club was to want him for depth (very doubtful, especially with list reduction likely). Time for hm to go next year then IMHO.

Sproule I think is likely to go - hasn't really developed into a goal-kicking forward: with Riccardi emerging I expect he'll go and we'll look to take another developmental KPF this year (there's a few available in the draft).

Shipley I think is safe - again because he's contracted until next year, and also because if we lose most of Williams, Caldwell, Hately & possibly O'Halloran then we shouldn't be cutting another midfielder. He's cheap and he's local - and we're losing a few locals so let's not make it deeper.

 

[fridgeman]

I'd go the other way. I think Buntine is fine - only because he's contracted to next year - unless another club was to want him for depth (very doubtful, especially with list reduction likely). Time for hm to go next year then IMHO.

Sproule I think is likely to go - hasn't really developed into a goal-kicking forward: with Riccardi emerging I expect he'll go and we'll look to take another developmental KPF this year (there's a few available in the draft).

Shipley I think is safe - again because he's contracted until next year, and also because if we lose most of Williams, Caldwell, Hately & possibly O'Halloran then we shouldn't be cutting another midfielder. He's cheap and he's local - and we're losing a few locals so let's not make it deeper.

I didnt know Buntine was contracted for next year and I cant see him having any interest from another club and not playing this year would indicate he doesnt fit with the coaches plans with Buckley and Keefe preferred and I would like him to stick around the club but I am not sure on what his plans would be for post footy and maybe an academy role/reserves player would suit him

The decision on Sproule I think will depend on what happens with the other KPPs , who stays (Stein, Buntine?) and also plans for HH (Defender?) and Buckley (Defender?)

Shipley I would want to stay but again I cant see him featuring in future plans for the senior team if he didnt make the team this year but with him playing as a defender they may keep him to see if he can develop in a new role

 

[dlanod]

100% agree with this. The problem is that he's contracted - for another 2 years. But this season he's been out of the Lions' preferred line (dlanod can probably explain why), so if we essentially promise him that Shaw role - at which I think he'd be fantastic - then it would help us. Shaw's best was fantastic for us - look at his AA years, plus his little cameos the last two years - it's just the slow degradation of skills such that his current normal output isn't enough.

dlanod definitley our best incite, but for a guy thats shown as much as Witherden, at his age, a future second I'd be pretty happy departing with for him, hell if we get Band 2 or 3 for Corr I'm happy shipping that off

Re: Witherden, the main issue was Birchall coming in. All three of Rich, Birchall and Witherden are the prototype of long good kickers that are average-ish defensively. Birchall is slightly better defensively (though that's not saying much these days) but is a lot smarter with his kicks out of the back half. Witherden actually played well when he came in in Rich and Birchall's absences but he tries to do too much with his kicking, and the way the Lions set up that can mean the ball goes straight back over his head for goals. FWIW Shaw is still better defensively than any of those three.

There's rumours he might look to move, given he was best 22 last year and isn't now, but Birchall is not a long term solution so I'd definitely rather he remains a Lion longer term.

Marcus Adams from Lions, ex-Bulldogs. A touch shorter at 192cms, only a touch older than Corr, & unable to get a spot in the Lions side - but that's why he's be gettable, and cheap to pay.

That's because he's injured. Always. The Lions target those kinds of players on the cheap (McCarthy, Adams, Birchall, now Cockatoo) and then hope to get them on the park, because they've got one of the best medical staff in the comp. Adams has been a bust on the front, unlike the others. He's been straight into the team whenever fit but he's literally missed the entire year and half of last year due to injury.

 

[PMBangers]

Re: Witherden, the main issue was Birchall coming in. All three of Rich, Birchall and Witherden are the prototype of long good kickers that are average-ish defensively. Birchall is slightly better defensively (though that's not saying much these days) but is a lot smarter with his kicks out of the back half. Witherden actually played well when he came in in Rich and Birchall's absences but he tries to do too much with his kicking, and the way the Lions set up that can mean the ball goes straight back over his head for goals. FWIW Shaw is still better defensively than any of those three.

There's rumours he might look to move, given he was best 22 last year and isn't now, but Birchall is not a long term solution so I'd definitely rather he remains a Lion longer term.

Would the opportunity present itself for an Answerth/ Starcevich to look for a move then if Witherden is seen as the Birchall replacement? Obviously just theory crafting but those 3 are all guys I'd be interested in bringing to GWS

 

[dlanod]

Would the opportunity present itself for an Answerth/ Starcevich to look for a move then if Witherden is seen as the Birchall replacement? Obviously just theory crafting but those 3 are all guys I'd be interested in bringing to GWS

It's always possible depending on the player and the offer involved. They're both locked in best 22 at the moment which makes anything difficult.

 

[Giant Strides]

That's because he's injured. Always. The Lions target those kinds of players on the cheap (McCarthy, Adams, Birchall, now Cockatoo) and then hope to get them on the park, because they've got one of the best medical staff in the comp. Adams has been a bust on the front, unlike the others. He's been straight into the team whenever fit but he's literally missed the entire year and half of last year due to injury.

Scratch Adams from the list then - GWS are not going to be his medical saviours!

 

[Pres]

I don't think you can afford to take any risks with the ruck situation after today's news.

Need to sign Mumford immediately to a 2 year deal before other clubs come knocking.