2020 Pakistan tour of England (3 Tests, 3 T20Is)

[VirgilHilts]

Top order blown away and a long-ish tail to come, so it's not looking good. The one bright spot has been Ollie Pope who has batted extremely well under pressure.

 

[Seedsfan]

Pakistan have the makings of a very good side have been impressed with the batting

 

[PhatBoy]

Another failure for Archer who continues to underwhelm with only 3 wickets for the innings

 

[corbies]

Given this is basically the same side maybe Australia played quite well when they absolutely smashed Pakistan last summer rather than the opposition being minnows who should never return to our shores?

Maybe Warner can be given the little bit of credit he deserves for making 335 runs in 1 innings against them?

 

[PhatBoy]

Given this is basically the same side maybe Australia played quite well when the absolutely smashed Pakistan last summer rather than the opposition being minnows who should never return to our shores?

Maybe Warner can be given the little bit of credit he deserves for making 335 runs in 1 innings against them?

agree in principal but a couple of riders on that - Pakistan traditionally DO play ok in England for some reason, and have not won a test in Australia for something like 30 years-plus. And to be honest have only looked like winning 1 in that time.
In theory I’d have thought australian conditions agree with them better than English ones but that certainly hasn’t been borne out by results

 

[corbies]

agree in principal but a couple of riders on that - Pakistan traditionally DO play ok in England for some reason, and have not won a test in Australia for something like 30 years-plus. And to be honest have only looked like winning 1 in that time.
In theory I’d have thought australian conditions agree with them better than English ones but that certainly hasn’t been borne out by results

Could be because Australia are actually quite good in Australia rather than Pakistan are s**t. Just a thought.

 

[frankrizzo]

Yeah it's weird when people dismiss the way australia and India can just crush sides at home by acting like eveybody does it at home, look at the last summer pakistan and nz were made to look like club sides but england don't dominate at home in the manner over that many tests against similar quality sides.

Last summer was actually an amazing performance against two decent test sides who are rarely dominated like that.

 

[Seedsfan]

Yeah it's weird when people dismiss the way australia and India can just crush sides at home by acting like eveybody does it at home, look at the last summer pakistan and nz were made to look like club sides but england don't dominate at home in the manner over that many tests against similar quality sides.

Last summer was actually an amazing performance against two decent test sides who are rarely dominated like that.

Look there is a bit of truth to that.

I think the difference is in Australia and India the conditions suit the home team more

What I mean by that is, Australian wickets are generally batsmen friendly wickets. Touring sides come undone due to not adjusting to the extra pace and bounce.

India again are batsmen friendly wickets, foreign sides struggle adjusting to the low bounce and spin.

England is more bowling friendly conditions while foreign batsmen can struggle with the seam and swing if you bowl well you can keep yourself in the contest

 

[PhatBoy]

Don’t underestimate the psychological hold australia has over a lot of sides from when they were at their peak.

I think while India have never had dominant sides like Australia had, they too still benefit from that stigma of ‘ok it’s going to turn from ball one and average spinners are going to look like Jim Laker so we have to be extra vigilant’ and it weighs heavily on visiting sides. Most of today’s players have grown up with England being extra s**t and then decent but not unbeatable and I think that helps them mentally knowing that visiting teams can go there and do ok

 

[Gethelred]

I think - when it comes to last summer - what Pakistan are good at is negated by the Kookaburra and the relatively flat decks. They're swing and seam bowlers, not really bang it in types; Abbas is a big mover off the seam. They also couldn't get their bowlers settled. NZ had less of a reason, but they had injuries to their front line attack, and they rely a lot on swing to take their wickets. Their batsman were truly awful, but that's psychology.

For some reason, ever since Vettori retired they simply haven't had what it takes to beat Australia except very very rarely. Even when they're strong, they find ways to lose games they should win. Add to that the fact that Australia at present has pretty close to its strongest attack across the board as it has ever had - while Australia has had better bowlers, they haven't had a frontline spinner and 3-5 quicks of the quality of Cummins, Starc, Hazelwood, Behrendorf, etc. - and you see why perhaps Australia is so dominant at home. We make runs at home we don't elsewhere, and we take wickets everywhere.

 

[Pykie]

Rory Burns. * me.


That's the 3rd or 4th absolutely horrific dismissal for their summer.

As good a temperament as he's shown in test cricket so far, that's a Peter Handscombe "will never work in test cricket" technique.


Moving so far across the line of the ball, was legitimately all over the place it looked like some sort of parody of trying to play cricket.


Nasser quick to break apart any Australian technique, yet no comment on the absolute butchery Burns has committed at the crease the last month.



This England side is going to get annihilated down here, make no mistake, 4 or 5-0 on the cards given they are still rolling out Broad and Anderson from home tests. Woakes is an English seam bowler unsuited to down here.

They should thank their stars for Archer, as he's the only one that poses any real threat down here, although he's yet to play on many flat pitches.

 

[corbies]

Don’t underestimate the psychological hold australia has over a lot of sides from when they were at their peak.

I think while India have never had dominant sides like Australia had, they too still benefit from that stigma of ‘ok it’s going to turn from ball one and average spinners are going to look like Jim Laker so we have to be extra vigilant’ and it weighs heavily on visiting sides. Most of today’s players have grown up with England being extra sh*t and then decent but not unbeatable and I think that helps them mentally knowing that visiting teams can go there and do ok

I'll remember how much of a role psychology plays next time we're discussing sledging (haha just playin' PB).

On the topic of giving credit where it's due how impressive was Shan Masoods innings? By my reckoning that's the first century by an overseas opener in England in the 1st innings of the match since Chris Rogers in 2015. In that time only Rogers (once) and Warner (twice) have even passed 50 as an overseas opener in the 1st innings of a match.

It's a testament to the stranglehold the new ball combo of Broad and Anderson (and sometimes Woakes) have had that in the last 5 years, overseas openers have averaged 23.8 in England. It elevates Masoods innings even further.

 

[PhatBoy]

I'll remember how much of a role psychology plays next time we're discussing sledging (haha just playin' PB).

On the topic of giving credit where it's due how impressive was Shan Masoods innings? By my reckoning that's the first century by an overseas opener in England in the 1st innings of the match since Chris Rogers in 2015. In that time only Rogers (once) and Warner (twice) have even passed 50 as an overseas opener in the 1st innings of a match.

It's a testament to the stranglehold the new ball combo of Broad and Anderson (and sometimes Woakes) have had that in the last 5 years, overseas openers have averaged 23.8 in England. It elevates Masoods innings even further.

kraigg brathwaite hit one in the first innings at Leeds in 2017.

very very good knock though

 

[Seedsfan]

kraigg brathwaite hit one in the first innings at Leeds in 2017.

very very good knock though

KL Rahul 2018

 

[corbies]

kraigg brathwaite hit one in the first innings at Leeds in 2017.

very very good knock though

KL Rahul 2018

I carefully worded it as first innings of the match . Those were in the 2nd innings of the match but first innings of the team.

It's more an indication of how often teams have collapsed having to bat on day 1 under the pressure of Broad and Anderson.

 

[Gethelred]

Yasir is bowling well.

 

[MJG14]

Broad is the one who worries me.

 

[Seedsfan]

Jos Buttler when does he get dropped, I think they counted 4 missed chances in the bowling innings and he is not making runs

 

[Shiv]

Love seeing the England players struggling against spin. Paki fielders are shouting in urdu/Hindi/broken English. ******* loving it.

 

[Shiv]

Hahahaha what a drop.

 

[010203]

Jos Buttler when does he get dropped, I think they counted 4 missed chances in the bowling innings and he is not making runs

When Ed Smith realises Buttler is an excellent white ball cricketer and that's it.

 

[Seedsfan]

When Ed Smith realises Buttler is an excellent white ball cricketer and that's it.

He is just not up to it. It’s laughable that they bat him 6 to get 5 bowlers in. No way he is good enough to bat in the top 6 in test cricket

 

[Blue Arrow]

Broad looks like he is getting his batting together again. Buttlers keeping has been rubbish this match, hopefully they keep him in the team until the next Ashes.

 

[The Passenger]

Jos Buttler when does he get dropped, I think they counted 4 missed chances in the bowling innings and he is not making runs

He is just not a test cricketer plain and simple. He's had nearly 50 tests and still hasn't produced with the bat, and has only ever been a good enough keeper for the 50 over format. He has weaknesses everywhere that just don't get exposed in the shorter format - moving ball, short ball and so on and so forth. Same as Aaron Finch. Just outside off stump in the slot - yeah he will smash the s**t out of it. Again, same as Aaron Finch.

I think maybe the English thought given enough time he'd bring his short form game to test cricket in the way Andrew Symonds did for a bit, but it just hasn't happened and the chances of it happening now are pretty slim (potential egg on face here, but I just don't see it happening). To make matters worse his confidence with the red ball must be shot to pieces. I assume there is an English cricket forum equivalent to this - they must be tearing their hair out.

Not sure what happened to Ben Foakes - I think he may have got injured, but surely he is back around the scene? It's been 18 months since his last test. Took him five tests to achieve the single test century Buttler has done in one and I haven't seen much of Foakes keeping but he appears to at least be competent.

I know Stokes not bowling backed them into a bit of a corner for this test but in English conditions you should back your top 4 bowlers to do a decent enough job with only a bit of support from an all rounder. Batting wise you then have Buttler who is OK (just) at #7 and Woakes or Bess are good #8's. Now they've got a weak 6/7/8 combination and it's not like their top five have been covering themselves in glory over the last few years, although they have improved a decent amount in recent times it must be said and I think Pope is the genuine real deal - Root, Stokes, Pope is potentially a very good middle order for years to come (unfortunately).

I'm usually pretty lenient on cricket selectors because I think for the most part the guys who will regularly win matches are automatic selections and the selections people criticise and squabble over are 50/50 calls on players who over time will only have minimal to medium grade impact (which is why they are 50/50 calls in the first place)... But the English selection and team structure for a long time has been bizarre to me. Scarily I don't think they have utilised the full potential of Ben Stokes either.

 

[Seedsfan]

Broad looks like he is getting his batting together again. Buttlers keeping has been rubbish this match, hopefully they keep him in the team until the next Ashes.

Yeah when teams bowl spin to him he is fine. He is still a coward crank it up and he will s**t himself