Training 2020 Pre-Season

[The_Snake26]

Carlisle by the looks has been in all the preseason training so if he plays to his best we are going to have a very good side , I'm also looking at big things from Webster and Roberton which makes it 3 class backmen coming straight into our best 22.
Having a Josh Battle running around in the forward line is going to be huge , I just feel having Battle , King and Membery as our 3 talls will make us far better than last year - with Gresham setting his best time trail since he has been at the club could well trigger the side on to big things just year with Hill , Jones , Hannebery , Billings , Ross , Hunter Clark.

Geary - Howard - Wilkie
Webster - Carlisle - Roberton

Geary for mine is horses for courses. If we’re playing a team with an elite small forward then he gets a game otherwise i hope he gets pushed down the order hopefully by Coffield or Paton. he’s a great shut down player but doesn’t offer much more.
We’re not a finals bound side while he’s getting games.
Otherwise i think that backline looks pretty good. wilkie, Howard and Webster to play the shutdown roles, Carlisle to play the interceptor, the other 2 to provide the run

 

[SaintsSeptember]

You have lost the plot. If you miss having 6 or 7 best 22 players for a year and then they play the following, of course you will improve. What universe are you living in.

IKR ,
Imagine if we'd lost Montagna , Hayes, Reiwoldt, DalSanto ,Gram and Fisher in 2009.

Who would have even played?

 

[plugger66]

You have lost the plot. If you miss having 6 or 7 best 22 players for a year and then they play the following, of course you will improve. What universe are you living in.

You are completely missing the point. Last year people said we would improve this year because we could never have injuries like last year. They were right. They were worse this year. That is my point. You say we will improve because so and so are back from injury but what a better player or players are injured. As I said you are falling for the trap others fell for last year. I’m from earth so this universe. I said the same last year and like you did now copped abuse but was proven right in the long run. Par for course. Its sometimes boring being right all the time.

 

[aussierulesrules]

I'm not sure why you are getting so upset to be honest. I don't see us jumping up the ladder unless our players improve. I don't think that's a huge stretch either. Carlton lost plenty of games under a few goals, we won a lot of our close ones for instance. They also lost players to injury and were much better under Teague. They should expect finals on that.

Melbourne and Essendon are better than their ladder position, Dogs look better with Bruce, Brisbane might struggle to make the same impact if injury hits, North Melbourne aren't the shitbox people thought, basically there are probably only a few clubs unlikely to improve from last year, there is no reason we can't shoot up the ladder just as much as any other team. That said we need to get improvement first.

I think we still lack star quality and our best players are inexperienced or injury prone. If everything falls our way we could do a Brisbane for sure but likely outcome is we get injuries, we take time to gel and haven't got as easy draw as last season. To me around 8 to 10 wins looks right unless we have drastic improvement. That's going through the fixture and giving us every win against Carlton, North, Dees, Sydney, Freo and Adelaide in Melbourne etc. Obviously we are unlikely to win all of those but also likely to pick up a couple of unlikely ones.

2021 is when we should have games under the youth side of Clark, Battle, King etc. To me that looks like when we are a realistic potential finals side that could actually give it a shake. Hopefully I'm like a Jewish kid at Christmas and after 9 years of running down the stairs and hoping for presents, I get a nice surprise next year.

How was I getting upset?

I merely asked you a question initially of whether you were predicting 2020 to be one of the only years ever where no teams take an unexpected dive down the ladder- usually due to a bad, unforeseen injury run- and you said you weren't willing to call that any would.

I took from that that you probably weren't willing to call it because you weren't able to see which that or those teams would be, so I simply followed up with a post trying to get clarity on whether that was why you weren't willing to call it, or whether you genuinely are predicting that this will be one of the only years where no teams drop off- and as such a team like us could improve a fair bit, yet still not climb the ladder.

Clarity I haven't gotten at all, as you've completely avoided the question in your response! But that's fine, if you don't want to answer it, I'm not fussed. Maybe this will indeed be a year where no team drops off or gets decimated by injury.

FWIW Essendon (8th this year) look a potential candidate to have a bad year though. Was an article about them in the paper this week talking about how much of their list is not in full training at the moment. Said that they only have 23 in "really good nick" and that most of them are not best 22.

Teams that have bad summers like that (like Melbourne last year) are prime candidates to have a bad year on the injury front and to take a dive, in my experience.

We on the other hand seem to be in very good nick overall, touch wood, which is one of the reasons I personally would think there's every chance we will improve significantly.

It would be one thing if all those who missed most or all of last year were still struggling with injury now (like say Daniher is at Essendon), but in no particular order:

-Carlisle seems like he's in full training (and has apparently been told to pull his finger out).

-Robbo is in full training.

-Webster is or at least was going so well that he came top 10 in the time trial and is presumably in full training.

-Bytel had joined training before the end of last season and was so fit by the start of preseason that he too came top 10 in the TT. Sounds like he's flying.

-Max likewise sounds like he's in full training and has been since the start of preseason.

So of the 7 who missed most or all of last season with injury, it seems like 5 have been in full training since day 1 of preseason, which is nothing but a good thing, if true. And gives them every chance of having much more of an impact for us next season.

Of the other two, obviously Hanners mishap was unfortunate, but at least it's unrelated to his previous issues and he's back running now. Has 3 months to get fit and finished last season well. Gears I'm unsure about. May or may not be in full training.

So yes, we may have a terrible injury run again, but at this stage things seem to be looking about as good as you would reasonably hope for- touch wood- so there's every chance we'll generally be fielding a stronger team than we did for most of this year.

Which would IMO be likely to make us a better team, and that's before we get to the recent additions from other clubs and then any natural improvement that it's reasonable to expect from the young ones who will have another preseason under their belts. Guys like Gresham, Clark, Battle, Coffield and maybe even Roma. Who just happen to be the most talented group on our list.

IF we get natural improvement overall from that group, have a better injury run and add the 5 we traded in, an awful lot would have to wrong elsewhere for us to not be a significantly better team, I would have thought.

As for your other points, for one I don't necessarily agree that our draw will be harder.

In particular because we have 3 extra games at home, and are every chance of being a much harder team to play there, due to it being a quick ground, and us likely to be a significantly quicker side.

7 of our 9 wins this year were there, so having 3 extra games there looks like a huge bonus, from where I'm sitting.

 

[aussierulesrules]

You have lost the plot. If you miss having 6 or 7 best 22 players for a year and then they play the following, of course you will improve. What universe are you living in.

You might need to explain the meaning of the word "if". Some here clearly have no understanding whatsoever of the meaning of the word and the fact it implies a hypothetical, THAT MAY NOT HAPPEN!

 

[plugger66]

You might need to explain the meaning of the word "if". Some here clearly have no understanding whatsoever of the meaning of the word and the fact it implies a hypothetical.

Is there a stat on the word if. Pretty much everything we say is if on here. It will limit the conversation to nil if we take it literally. That’s a stat of zero posts.

 

[CursingFijian]

You might need to explain the meaning of the word "if". Some here clearly have no understanding whatsoever of the meaning of the word and the fact it implies a hypothetical.

I’m a big fan of the neural diversity on this forum. It helps me see different issues from all sides. I don’t feel the need to convert P66 or prove my opinion better than his. I can hit the subscribe button or not.

Like Gringo though I have a preferred emotional position. His is to be guardedly realistic. I just like to be optimistic. That provides me the chemical cocktail I prefer to have sloshing around between my ears.

 

[gringo2011]

How was I getting upset?

I merely asked you a question initially of whether you were predicting 2020 to be one of the only years ever where no teams take an unexpected dive down the ladder- usually due to a bad, unforeseen injury run- and you said you weren't willing to call that any would.

I took from that that you probably weren't willing to call it because you weren't able to see which that or those teams would be, so I simply followed up with a post trying to get clarity on whether that was why you weren't willing to call it, or whether you genuinely are predicting that this will be one of the only years where no teams drop off- and as such a team like us could improve a fair bit, yet still not climb the ladder.

Clarity I haven't gotten at all, as you've completely avoided the question in your response! But that's fine, if you don't want to answer it, I'm not fussed. Maybe this will indeed be a year where no team drops off or gets decimated by injury.

FWIW Essendon (8th this year) look a potential candidate to have a bad year though. Was an article about them in the paper this week talking about how much of their list is not in full training at the moment. Said that they only have 23 in "really good nick" and that most of them are not best 22.

Teams that have bad summers like that (like Melbourne last year) are prime candidates to have a bad year on the injury front and to take a dive, in my experience.

We on the other hand seem to be in very good nick overall, touch wood, which is one of the reasons I personally would think there's every chance we will improve significantly.

It would be one thing if all those who missed most or all of last year were still struggling with injury now (like say Daniher is at Essendon), but in no particular order:

-Carlisle seems like he's in full training (and has apparently been told to pull his finger out).

-Robbo is in full training.

-Webster is or at least was going so well that he came top 10 in the time trial and is presumably in full training.

-Bytel had joined training before the end of last season and was so fit by the start of preseason that he too came top 10 in the TT. Sounds like he's flying.

-Max likewise sounds like he's in full training and has been since the start of preseason.

So of the 7 who missed most or all of last season with injury, it seems like 5 have been in full training since day 1 of preseason, which is nothing but a good thing, if true. And gives them every chance of having much more of an impact for us next season.

Of the other two, obviously Hanners mishap was unfortunate, but at least it's unrelated to his previous issues and he's back running now. Has 3 months to get fit and finished last season well. Gears I'm unsure about. May or may not be in full training.

So yes, we may have a terrible injury run again, but at this stage things seem to be looking about as good as you would reasonably hope for- touch wood- so there's every chance we'll generally be fielding a stronger team than we did for most of this year.

Which would IMO be likely to make us a better team, and that's before we get to the recent additions from other clubs and then any natural improvement that it's reasonable to expect from the young ones who will have another preseason under their belts. Guys like Gresham, Clark, Battle, Coffield and maybe even Roma. Who just happen to be the most talented group on our list.

IF we get natural improvement overall from that group, have a better injury run and add the 5 we traded in, an awful lot would have to wrong elsewhere for us to not be a significantly better team, I would have thought.

As for your other points, for one I don't necessarily agree that our draw will be harder.

In particular because we have 3 extra games at home, and are every chance of being a much harder team to play there, due to it being a quick ground, and us likely to be a significantly quicker side.

7 of our 9 wins this year were there, so having 3 extra games there looks like a huge bonus, from where I'm sitting.

So you are saying if everything goes right next year we are likely to improve? I don't think that's any different to what I said only that I think most likely scenario based on the fixture is that we have a similar finish to 2019. The draw is harder and we lost players who were in our best players. We have gained some that might make a difference as well but we don't know the impact they'll make.

There is a very good chance we improve but just as good chance that we don't in short. Of course some teams will improve and some will drop away. I don't think there are masses of top 8 sides that are likely to drop away. WCE, Richmond, Collingwood, Cats, Giants look like locks for top 8 unless something drastic happens. Brissy, Essendon and the Dogs look the most vulnerable for a drop away. Lions had dream injury run and lose Hodge but are a good side, Essendon as you say have injury but are an underperformed for their list quality and the Dogs are still a bit youth heavy but again improve with needs based trading.

The vulnerable teams to me are Port, Adelaide, North, Sydney and Freo, all look like they could drop off hard. I expect Carlton to improve and GC to be a better side. Sydney and Port probably the best of the next though. We still look around the level of teams in the mid table though to me. We could do a Brisbane or Melbourne and make a dream run at finals with a clean injury run but it's not likely and I don't think we would then be in an era of sustained success.

Go through the fixture and pick games that we will be likely to win. At the moment I had us beating sides like Carlton twice and Melbourne twice. Either of them improving means we then have to take a scalp of a side that was good this year. Yes some can drop away but equally sides can improve. I would have had us beating Brisbane at Marvel by heaps this year.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

You are completely missing the point. Last year people said we would improve this year because we could never have injuries like last year. They were right. They were worse this year. That is my point. You say we will improve because so and so are back from injury but what a better player or players are injured. As I said you are falling for the trap others fell for last year. I’m from earth so this universe. I said the same last year and like you did now copped abuse but was proven right in the long run. Par for course. Its sometimes boring being right all the time.

OK Plugger. But if we get that level of injury we won't go far.
When is the last time someone won a premiership with more than 5 of their best players missing?

So good , you were right.
But if you consider we'll always have that level of injury we are screwed anyway.

 

[prophetic1]

I will give the tip. Being realistic takes more courage on here than jumping on the bandwagon. Also I can you another tip. Being realistic isn’t about wanting to be right. It’s about being truthful to yourself.

I could come on here and say bytel will be a champion. No one is going to say you were wrong if he ends up as an ordinary player because this is a saints site. No pleasure in telling someone how wrong they were if it effects the saints. If though you say bytel will be a very ordinary player because you really believe and he ends up a star you will cop it on here for having no idea and you are negative w***er.

YEP...you already convinced me that our midfield lacks the grunt we need...and as you say we live in hope that we have the raw material...bytel hanners byrnes and as you say jury is out ................we couldn't buy one if we wanted wwell not one like we all wanted ....my personAL DREAM IS A selwood type but i dont even know if thats correct..i just love the hard nut that he has always been..

 

[gringo2011]

Looks like Whitfield signed up with GWS until he needs a Zimmer frame. Might need to find another target.

 

[prophetic1]

Looks like Whitfield signed up with GWS until he needs a Zimmer frame. Might need to find another target.

i had to look up what a zimmer frame was..but it gave me a chuckle...

 

[Premium]

How was I getting upset?

I merely asked you a question initially of whether you were predicting 2020 to be one of the only years ever where no teams take an unexpected dive down the ladder- usually due to a bad, unforeseen injury run- and you said you weren't willing to call that any would.

I took from that that you probably weren't willing to call it because you weren't able to see which that or those teams would be, so I simply followed up with a post trying to get clarity on whether that was why you weren't willing to call it, or whether you genuinely are predicting that this will be one of the only years where no teams drop off- and as such a team like us could improve a fair bit, yet still not climb the ladder.

Clarity I haven't gotten at all, as you've completely avoided the question in your response! But that's fine, if you don't want to answer it, I'm not fussed. Maybe this will indeed be a year where no team drops off or gets decimated by injury.

FWIW Essendon (8th this year) look a potential candidate to have a bad year though. Was an article about them in the paper this week talking about how much of their list is not in full training at the moment. Said that they only have 23 in "really good nick" and that most of them are not best 22.

Teams that have bad summers like that (like Melbourne last year) are prime candidates to have a bad year on the injury front and to take a dive, in my experience.

We on the other hand seem to be in very good nick overall, touch wood, which is one of the reasons I personally would think there's every chance we will improve significantly.

It would be one thing if all those who missed most or all of last year were still struggling with injury now (like say Daniher is at Essendon), but in no particular order:

-Carlisle seems like he's in full training (and has apparently been told to pull his finger out).

-Robbo is in full training.

-Webster is or at least was going so well that he came top 10 in the time trial and is presumably in full training.

-Bytel had joined training before the end of last season and was so fit by the start of preseason that he too came top 10 in the TT. Sounds like he's flying.

-Max likewise sounds like he's in full training and has been since the start of preseason.

So of the 7 who missed most or all of last season with injury, it seems like 5 have been in full training since day 1 of preseason, which is nothing but a good thing, if true. And gives them every chance of having much more of an impact for us next season.

Of the other two, obviously Hanners mishap was unfortunate, but at least it's unrelated to his previous issues and he's back running now. Has 3 months to get fit and finished last season well. Gears I'm unsure about. May or may not be in full training.

So yes, we may have a terrible injury run again, but at this stage things seem to be looking about as good as you would reasonably hope for- touch wood- so there's every chance we'll generally be fielding a stronger team than we did for most of this year.

Which would IMO be likely to make us a better team, and that's before we get to the recent additions from other clubs and then any natural improvement that it's reasonable to expect from the young ones who will have another preseason under their belts. Guys like Gresham, Clark, Battle, Coffield and maybe even Roma. Who just happen to be the most talented group on our list.

IF we get natural improvement overall from that group, have a better injury run and add the 5 we traded in, an awful lot would have to wrong elsewhere for us to not be a significantly better team, I would have thought.

As for your other points, for one I don't necessarily agree that our draw will be harder.

In particular because we have 3 extra games at home, and are every chance of being a much harder team to play there, due to it being a quick ground, and us likely to be a significantly quicker side.

7 of our 9 wins this year were there, so having 3 extra games there looks like a huge bonus, from where I'm sitting.

Aussie we have basically gain 10 class players to our squad if you look at who we had available last year and who we are bringing into the team.
and I'm not even including 2 players that I would bet will be playing this year in Max King and Bytel.
Carlisle
Hannerbery
Roberton
Webster
Austin
Hill
Ryder
Howard
Butler
Jones
Abbott

We lost Steven which is a big set back and Bruce and Newnes robs the team of experience , however if you look at what they produced in 2019 I'm not going to lose sleep of them.

The most exciting thing for me is we have players who could easily take a massive step this year , guy's like Battle , Gresham , Hunter Clark and Howard , Jones , Hill will give us more use of the ball.

If everything clicks we can be top 4 side - having a A -grade back line with Carlisle , Roberton , Webster , Howard and now with Hannebery fit with Gresham with a bigger tank , a improving Hunter Clark and a natural ball accumulator in Zac Jones and of course Brad Hill , Billings and Ross.
There are many unknowns - will Max King have a impact , can Marshall continue his form from last year, we will not know till the season starts , but I know one thing we are looking better on and off the field than we have for many years.

 

[sunny3193]

I want to talk about Battle.
Because he has been sadly overlooked in this thread.
Because he has some startling attribute.
And because I actually think he might become our most important player.

If Carlisle has pulled his finger out and Howard justifies the trade hype and cost, there’s the two preferred key backs.
And if Marshall and Ryder are rotating on field, and King also justifies the draft hype and cost, there’s the two key preferred forwards.
So where does Battle sit?
Is he best 22, or best 25?
Which group is he training with?
Where does the club see him fit within the team structure?
Where does the club see him long term?
Is he surplus?
Do we trade him for a Josh Kelly type?

Me?
I‘d love to see him develop into that key swing man/utility role that BJ filled because I reckon he would be damn good at it. Competition elite good.

 

[prophetic1]

I’m a big fan of the neural diversity on this forum. It helps me see different issues from all sides. I don’t feel the need to convert P66 or prove my opinion better than his. I can hit the subscribe button or not.

Like Gringo though I have a preferred emotional position. His is to be guardedly realistic. I just like to be optimistic. That provides me the chemical cocktail I prefer to have sloshing around between my ears.

i too support that perspective ''e pluribus unum'' ...IN DIVERSITY THERE BECOMES A SINGULAR VOICE OF SOLIDARITY...WE ALL LOVE THE SAINTS. WE do however enjoy the trash that we give each other from time to time ...YES???
In addition to that i feel it necessary to say that unlike the actual team we don't get to know much at all about each others private lives and probably a good thing too...nonetheless it makes it hard to know when somebody just doesnt need trash or doesnt find it easy to cope with any attitude on a given day because of what they have been experiencing..

so it is really necessary to feel comfortable for anyone of us to say "ease up fellas" " i,ve had s**t happen dont wanna go into it but a little leeway please".....makes it really safe then...cos we just dont know the s**t that people experience and in a way we are a team and that little understanding goes a long way....otherwise everyone;s fair game fun and appreciated.....obviously all qualified by the rider...IMO.

 

[DarkSaint]

You are completely missing the point. Last year people said we would improve this year because we could never have injuries like last year. They were right. They were worse this year. That is my point. You say we will improve because so and so are back from injury but what a better player or players are injured. As I said you are falling for the trap others fell for last year. I’m from earth so this universe. I said the same last year and like you did now copped abuse but was proven right in the long run. Par for course. Its sometimes boring being right all the time.

THIS YEAR we have added 5 players in the off season that are arguably best 22. IF we still have the same injuries as you say we will still improve if by your thinking everything stays the same. We will no longer have to see players like McKenzie/Joyce/Langlands/Young etc be starting 22 because Hill/Ryder/Jones/butler/Howard WILL be playing instead of them and are all better players.

I don't get how you can't see that.

 

[Premium]

Looks like Whitfield signed up with GWS until he needs a Zimmer frame. Might need to find another target.

By the time we find a big fish a few of our tiddlers might have grown to be whales
Gresham , Hunter Clark , Coffield , Bytel - any of this guys could become A grade mids and that is not mentioning Marshall , Battle , King , Howard all have the ability to become A grade.

 

[Premium]

THIS YEAR we have added 5 players in the off season that are arguably best 22. IF we still have the same injuries as you say we will still improve if by your thinking everything stays the same. We will no longer have to see players like McKenzie/Joyce/Langlands/Young etc be starting 22 because Hill/Ryder/Jones/butler/Howard WILL be playing instead of them and are all better players.

I don't get how you can't see that.

It's Plugger

 

[plugger66]

Looks like Whitfield signed up with GWS until he needs a Zimmer frame. Might need to find another target.

Was always happening

 

[plugger66]

THIS YEAR we have added 5 players in the off season that are arguably best 22. IF we still have the same injuries as you say we will still improve if by your thinking everything stays the same. We will no longer have to see players like McKenzie/Joyce/Langlands/Young etc be starting 22 because Hill/Ryder/Jones/butler/Howard WILL be playing instead of them and are all better players.

I don't get how you can't see that.

I didn’t say everything stays the same. All I said last year and this year is I don’t rate injuries as a reason to improve or also get worse. Obviously you haven’t seen what I’ve said a few times lately and that was the reason we could improve is 3 of our recruits, different coaches, different game plan and maybe the fixture but we don’t know how that will end up yet.

 

[plugger66]

It's Plugger

Yep so what that mean? It’s premmo. Don’t what it means just following your lead

 

[The Punter]

IKR ,
Imagine if we'd lost Montagna , Hayes, Reiwoldt, DalSanto ,Gram and Fisher in 2009.

Who would have even played?

AFL Tables - Hawthorn v St Kilda - Sat, 8-Aug-2009 2:10 PM - Match Stats

afltables.com

 

[prophetic1]

WHATEVER the improvement in the Seniors one thing that can't be disputed and that is SANDY WILL BE RUBBING THEIR HANDS WITH GLEE BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO BE BETTER with the additions and less injuries...SO that would mean it would have a positive knock on effect in our Seniors wouldn't it??

 

[BrutThough]

I want to talk about Battle.
Because he has been sadly overlooked in this thread.
Because he has some startling attribute.
And because I actually think he might become our most important player.

If Carlisle has pulled his finger out and Howard justifies the trade hype and cost, there’s the two preferred key backs.
And if Marshall and Ryder are rotating on field, and King also justifies the draft hype and cost, there’s the two key preferred forwards.
So where does Battle sit?
Is he best 22, or best 25?
Which group is he training with?
Where does the club see him fit within the team structure?
Where does the club see him long term?
Is he surplus?
Do we trade him for a Josh Kelly type?

Me?
I‘d love to see him develop into that key swing man/utility role that BJ filled because I reckon he would be damn good at it. Competition elite good.

Battle is the type of player you just find a spot for. Doesnt matter what end of the ground, he just needs to play.

 

[prophetic1]

I didn’t say everything stays the same. All I said last year and this year is I don’t rate injuries as a reason to improve or also get worse. Obviously you haven’t seen what I’ve said a few times lately and that was the reason we could improve is 3 of our recruits, different coaches, different game plan and maybe the fixture but we don’t know how that will end up yet.

its a bit like , "Dont ever run on a mis field" saying we improve cos of no injuries? There is a certain cautionary sense to it.