List Mgmt. 2020 Trade and List Management Thread III

[Luke72]

I wonder where Rama is in all this? He was pretty vocal when he thought he had us over a barrel, surely he should be talking up Brown now to try and earn his managers pay. Pick 35!?! C’mon Rama you POS. I suspect Brown has already sacked him.

 

[Luke72]

Would we consider the following?

NM: Future 1st, Future 2nd
GE: Higgins, Future 2nd

No

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Would we consider the following?

NM: Future 1st, Future 2nd
GE: Higgins, Future 2nd

I'd do it but I don't think they would. It's not far from what we're trying to get done now, is it?

 

[Luke72]

I'd do it but I don't think they would. It's not far from what we're trying to get done now, is it?

Assuming we get the spoon and they win we give them Higgins and 19 for 18 and 36. It’s a no from me.

 

[tiltraise]

Assuming we get the spoon and they win we give them Higgins and 19 for 18 and 36. It’s a no from me.

Yeah its not a huge upgrade but we could finish a few positions higher or the Cats a few positions lower.

Also possible some EO1R FA compo picks could push the gap out a little thus some insurance there.

 

[The Dingrel]

Imagine a trading world where it wasn't a requirement to try to "fleece" the opposition.

Yeah in my view there players have too much power in getting to their desired club, which results in a lack of competitive bidding. That said I doubt we'll ever see an American style of player trading.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Assuming we get the spoon and they win we give them Higgins and 19 for 18 and 36. It’s a no from me.

Yeah, that's worse case scenario but I'm not making either of those assumptions. If there are 8 places between us on the ladder or less, it's better than the current deal, but of course it's a gamble.

 

[dus]

If we dont win the flag who the hell cares who wins.

I do.

I have different levels of hatred towards different teams.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

I do.

I have different levels of hatred towards different teams.

Same. I’d hate to see Dangerfield win a flag. His Ego is the size of the moon

 

[The Dingrel]

You take it with a grain of salt but common theme across all commentary on this is that we f’ed it up with that statement. Right or wrong, there’s a perception that we will not take Brown back and the club’s done fu** all to dispel that view. A future second round would be a dismal result for North, and sets a sh*t tone for Brady’s first big move at the club. If we want to play tough negotiators, we should be prepared to walk Brown to the PSD unless Brayshaw is part of the trade.

The question for me then, is if thats the case why aren't there any other suitors?

 

[R00StaR]

Not sure if its been discussed, but the following article on Free Agency i found a surprise. As usually with these things im expecting something that creates feeder clubs but to my surprise they might just be onto something clean and reasonable.

How Silvagni and Rendell would fix free agency

“I don’t care how many clubs you’ve been to..."

www.sen.com.au

• make free agency nine years (on a list)
• no compo and they can go wherever they want
• qualify after nine years in the system (doesnt have to be all at one club)
• limit the amount of free agents to the top clubs
• The bottom 10 clubs, they could be entitled to a free agent every year

 

[The Dingrel]

Out of interest, I had a bit of a look at our age profile this year and compared it to Richmond. I've always been interested in doing some QA on AFL lists, viewing them as an exercise in portfolio management and try to derive quant based rules, just never had the time. Hardly statistically significant in any way but just some observations. I find it quite interesting that Richmond have have 9 players aged 23-27, 10 aged 27-31, and 2 over 31 (that means half their list is still under 23 and considered to be developing). Average age is 24 and Median 23.5. What I find quite intuitively appealing, is those older guys are the mainstay of the senior team (as you'd imagine), but plenty of younger kids are getting games still. The question is how good those kids are, as they should be relatively late draft picks, and Richmond's ability to develop them. So what I really find interesting is to identify an age at which if a player isn't automatic best 22 he should be exited. It is pretty clear at richmond, there's virtually zero players 23 or older who wouldn't be an automatic start in their best 22. Looking at our list (prior to delistings in 2020) however, quite a few things stand out. 1/ our average age is older, 2) We had 20 players over 26 and not all would be certain best 22 starters. Result of holding on too long and recruiting average mature age players from other clubs. The bright point is that we had 13 players under 22. Also looking at the age profile of players left on the list, there's plenty of make or break years in 2021, and likely to be significant further list turnover next year. Looking at it in this light, the club is on the right track finally, add some more high end picks this year and next year along with our current young group, and I think we're well placed for success 2022 and beyond. The media like to portray that as a shambles. Couldn't be further from the truth, it will take a bit of time but its the only way forward.

 

[Luke72]

The question for me then, is if thats the case why aren't there any other suitors?

What gets me is with Brown and Higgins we have one player who wanted to stay and one who wanted the best for the club but our bargaining power is weak while any number of clubs have players requesting to get out who are worth a heap. Orazio and Daniher have basically sat out the last two years sulking as they don’t want to be there and are still worth first round picks?!? FMD!

 

[Kanga Glory]

It bit more like it for brown multiple picks, don’t like the trade pick 2 talk






Sent from my iPad

 

[jaspers_barber]

The evidence is compelling.

There was a rumour last year that Tom rang Brad Green

Brad Green

Age

44

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.3

4star

HB

5.9

4star

M

5.2

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

7.2

2star

K

5.8

3star

HB

1.4

2star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.0

1star

G

1.4

5star

to ask if it was true that his wife was dying, as Tom wanted to be the first to report it. He can't be normal.

EDIT: see this thread, not confirmed, and text not a call (p.4) https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/is-there-a-worse-journalist-than-tom-browne.1216922/


Still can't confirm or deny the goats preference.

And there’s also allegations he fronted up uninvited to Dulcie Kennedy’s funeral for stories with Hawthorn players as well.
He’s really not a correct human...

 

[The Anvil]

It's sh*t and I'm personally offended. It should be shorter and I'm not wrong

Suspect if you’re personally offended by that comment then BigFooty is a dangerous place to hangs out.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Tas]

Would we consider the following?

NM: Future 1st, Future 2nd
GE: Higgins, Future 2nd

We need picks in this draft.

 

[The Anvil]

I was really disappointed in the Brown decision early on, now I am really apathetic to it.

Time to get excited about what some of these kids can bring. Brown is no longer a North Melbourne player, so what will be will be.

Day 1 of the news on BB I never would have thought the fan base would have moved on so quickly. Brady really has won the war on opinions that matter (the fan base).


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Tas]

Melbourne has a shit draft hand, Brady should be focusing on doing a three way trade with GWS with Brown, Preuss and something better than Melbourne has. GWS have not valued lower end picks, they will get a bucket of first round picks for their exiting players.

 

[shimaburnsgrieg]

It bit more like it for brown multiple picks, don’t like the trade pick 2 talk



View attachment 1007568


Sent from my iPad

Both as expected

. Brown - second rounder and a sweetener to us which will 'value' BBB in the mid to high teens

. Pick 2 - we will move it as long as the deal is compelling - this means a Gold Coast rumoured deal - their first this year (5) and next year (assumed 4-7) AND either a player or a second rounder (22-25).

 

[The Anvil]

Melbourne has a sh*t draft hand, Brady should be focusing on doing a three way trade with GWS with Brown, Preuss and something better than Melbourne has. GWS have not valued lower end picks, they will get a bucket of first round picks for their exiting players.

Three way would be good but they also have young players, Brayshaw for Brown would work enough for me.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[The Y Factor]

Brady and team will know who they want and where in the draft they are expected to go so trading pick two , while sounding drastic, means little unless you know our plans and needs.

If we have a pool of 5-10 players that we would love to get 2 or three of then swapping 2 makes sense. Comben, Larkey and Xerri appear to have the faith of the coaches that they are the real deal so I'm happy to trust BRady and team to deliver the plan.

Fantastic reading the effort going towards getting value for Higgo and Brown too - no guarantees but awesome intent and work.

If we end up with several second rounders then it'll be great for live trading.

My biggest concern is Anderson - keen to see him locked in!! If that falls through, worst case we get a 1st rounder and I guess its Dom Tyson

21

Dom Tyson

Age

32

Ht

186cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.3

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

12.0

5star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.5

5star

CL

3.8

5star

No current season stats available

D

14.0

4star

K

5.0

2star

HB

9.0

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

CL

2.4

5star

's time to step up and prove himself.

Interesting few days coming up.

Feel like we are in good hands.

 

[justroyal]

If we have a pool of 5-10 players that we would love to get 2 or three of then swapping 2 makes sense. Comben, Larkey and Xerri appear to have the faith of the coaches that they are the real deal so I'm happy to trust BRady and team to deliver the plan.

I get the sentiment, but they collaboratively have what? 30 games between them all?

 

[Tas]

Out of interest, I had a bit of a look at our age profile this year and compared it to Richmond. I've always been interested in doing some QA on AFL lists, viewing them as an exercise in portfolio management and try to derive quant based rules, just never had the time. Hardly statistically significant in any way but just some observations. I find it quite interesting that Richmond have have 9 players aged 23-27, 10 aged 27-31, and 2 over 31 (that means half their list is still under 23 and considered to be developing). Average age is 24 and Median 23.5. What I find quite intuitively appealing, is those older guys are the mainstay of the senior team (as you'd imagine), but plenty of younger kids are getting games still. The question is how good those kids are, as they should be relatively late draft picks, and Richmond's ability to develop them. So what I really find interesting is to identify an age at which if a player isn't automatic best 22 he should be exited. It is pretty clear at richmond, there's virtually zero players 23 or older who wouldn't be an automatic start in their best 22. Looking at our list (prior to delistings in 2020) however, quite a few things stand out. 1/ our average age is older, 2) We had 20 players over 26 and not all would be certain best 22 starters. Result of holding on too long and recruiting average mature age players from other clubs. The bright point is that we had 13 players under 22. Also looking at the age profile of players left on the list, there's plenty of make or break years in 2021, and likely to be significant further list turnover next year. Looking at it in this light, the club is on the right track finally, add some more high end picks this year and next year along with our current young group, and I think we're well placed for success 2022 and beyond. The media like to portray that as a shambles. Couldn't be further from the truth, it will take a bit of time but its the only way forward.

Richmond has good mature players, then they have kids. Their major weakness is if you can pressure them and restrict the flow and it becomes more of a contested grind then it doesn't suit their players, I guess it is why they have generally had a pretty poor record against us. When we had Swallow, Cunnington and Jacobs in the middle it was just too much grunt. When we were able to shut down their half back they just couldn't move the ball quick enough.

That being said, it is extremely difficult to win a flag with defensive footy.

Richmond has recruited and developed well, they get kids that have attributes that would work well in their system and quite often these skills aren't highly rated, we generally rate more complete footballers, Richmond focus on a few traits they can't teach/develop and then develop what they are missing. it is a complete system of football, if the senior players don't produce, their kids aren't going to carry the team. If the pressure isn't there then individually they have way less talent than say GWS' kids. The problem for GWS is that Cameron, Greene, Whitfield, Coniglio, Kelly, Taranto, etc haven't been performing consistently or to a high enough standard as Richmond core has.

When you look at our side, who is a very good player and who has played consistently?
Goldstein, Cunnington, Tarrant... I would have said Brown is the only other senior player prior to this year. That highlights why we are were we are, that is too small a group.

Our style of stoppage football though is a lot harder for young kids to come in and play, players that went down hurt from our midfield group: Simpkin, Thomas, Taylor, Mahony and Walker. When you look at their physique they aren't going to survive a war of attrition, guys like Swallow, Harris and Adams broke down for us well before they got old. Jacobs did as well. It isn't an easy way to play the game. We need to be able to get results with less expenditure of effort because we can't sustain the level of energy required for us to get results last year and it took us way too long to be able to get young kids to contribute consistently to our system.

 

[Shinboner1]

Both as expected

. Brown - second rounder and a sweetener to us which will 'value' BBB in the mid to high teens

. Pick 2 - we will move it as long as the deal is compelling - this means a Gold Coast rumoured deal - their first this year (5) and next year (assumed 4-7) AND either a player or a second rounder (22-25).

GC likely to pick up either hollands or philips and I dont know if I could deal with losing either and watching them dominate alongside rowell for years.
We'd really have to get the maximum deal for it to be worth imo.