Remove this Banner Ad

List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link


To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...
www.bigfooty.com www.bigfooty.com
 
Murraj1966 said:
People may not agree with me, but again I'll ask the big question; Why has the club not given it their all to keep him at St Kilda?

If he was good enough why aren't we contracting him at the same value of a few years ago? Because he's regressed.
Click to expand...

Moreso that he was overpaid after having a great season in 2019 and we had to spend the coin on someone.
 
gringo2011 said:
What is Mayne even?
Click to expand...
hSJqsBl.gif
 

Log in to remove this Banner Ad

borderbarry said:
Talk about A Grade Saints without mentioning Wilkie? If he does a job on Hawkins like he did on Buddy last week, a lot of you experts are going to look silly.
Click to expand...
He's not in the mix for one of the best defenders in the competition. He's a good reliable lockdown player and a nice kick, but he doesn't take the number one tall most weeks and he isn't an elite interceptor. Weitering, Andrews, May, Moore, Taylor are probably the main number one KPDs in the comp. Wilkie doesn't fit into that category. He's more of a second/third tall. Stewart, Lever, Grimes, Doedee are the pick of the bunch in this role. Wilkie is 38th in the league for intercept marks.

This isn't at all meant as a knock on him. He is a really reliable player and an important part of our team.
 
gringo2011 said:
Because our midfield is so dominant? Even with him we are still a side that looks like we fit in a sort of 8th to 16th spot kind of range. We'll lose a lot of experience and depth next year and the only way we won't miss him is if a lot of players step up. So far more have stepped down than up unfortunately. Taking away quality depth even is making yourself more vulnerable to injury plunges. We lose Dunstan, Billings, Seb like people want and we probably go to 10th to 18th sort of range if we get a few injuries.

Some people like the build more than the destination I think or the club has conditioned them to keep churning and hoping we arse a Plugger or Riewoldt. Dunstan is getting coaches votes is because he's playing well. All hands on deck is not a plan that a hope. No side gets to play the same 22 players every week. Are you happy to miss finals again next year? I reckon that will be the outcome with the expected player movement and with the forum dream of culling Seb, Ross and Dunstan.
Click to expand...

Our midfield has been missing key players on and off throughout the entire season and is not a dominant midfield even with all hands on deck. We desperately need a few of the young blokes to go from promising to consistently good and then to consistently very good. You make a good point that we're not good enough with him in the side... so do we keep giving him games or give Bytel a proper go to develop into a better player? You're forgetting that our younger guys are now into their 2nd, 3rd or 4th years... they're not babies anymore... we need to start relying on them as players who can stand up and play their role. Holding them back for the likes of Dunstan, who we know what we'll get, is counter productive IMO. I know I'm hard on him but I've seen these false dawns too many times.

I suppose it comes down to whether you consider Dunstan as depth or as an absolute lock for best 22 in 12 months time when we're pushing top 4. IMO he would only be staying on as a depth player... is that enough for him? That's doubtful. So we get what we can for him & hope Libba pulls another gem from the 2nd round.

As for Seb & Billings, well I think they are unfairly maligned. I was Seb's greatest critic after his last B&F win but he's had 2 pretty good years in a new role. Hopefully younger players go past him but he can stay as a back up. With JB I think it comes down to what we can get in return... an end of 1st rounder is the right price IMO. If it's after that then I prefer we keep him.

While there's no guarantee the injury gods will smile on us next year, you can't make list management decisions on 'what if we get a shitload of injuries'. You decide who stays and who goes on what is going to help the list win a bloody flag.

My personal opinion is that making Jack Bytel & co hardened, experienced senior players will get us closer to that than putting our trust in Luke Dunstan.
 
I’d say our A Grade players are Crouch, Marshall, Gresham, Hill and potentially King and Sinclair next year.

Steele is elite, top 5 mid in the game easily. Arguably the best two way mid.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Would rather play Byrnes over billings and get him up to 50 games as quick as possible and save 200k, reminds me a little of stuv in his early days.

Billings is a link man and he hasn't even been able to do that lately.

Unfortunately for whatever reason be it coaching or lack of confidence billings has never become the player we thought he could be. His first 50 games were pretty exciting, I honestly thought we finally drafted a beauty.

But I feel like he has declined in his last 50 games, dosent win 1 on 1s, dosent win his own ball, dosent defend well, goes up for the contested mark but always drops them, dosent kick goals under pressure and the few goals he does kick these days come from a quick turn over and he just happens to be in the right place at the right time by accident. Can't break lines because he doesn't have any speed.

I believe a fresh start for both billings and the club is the best thing, it might turn his career around and it'll give us the opportunity to play some of under 22 kids more regularly. But if billings does stay I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up playing more in the 2s and becoming the back up for injuries.

On DUB-LX2 using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
In terms of players that project to be really elite players for their position, I think Highmore really doesn't have to improve very much to get there. Since his game against Adelaide where he established himself at the level, he's averaging 3.6 intercept marks and 8.2 overall intercepts a game. Obviously, you can't just transfer that into a whole season like this, but if he could, it would place him fourth in the comp for both intercept marks and overall intercepts. That's really promising and I expect he will be right up there next year for intercepting defenders if he can play a full season.
 
Murraj1966 said:
People may not agree with me, but again I'll ask the big question; Why has the club not given it their all to keep him at St Kilda?

If he was good enough why aren't we contracting him at the same value of a few years ago? Because he's regressed.
Click to expand...
Because we have paid other players significant money and can no longer afford to pay him a substantial amount without it being poor list management. We're currently paying Hanners and Hill significant money, both who have done far less than Billings over the last 2 season's.
If we lose him, we lose him, but he's not the squib or liability you're making him out to be
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Murraj1966 said:
I'm talking less of the squibbing contests but more of the shitting himself in vital moments which he undeniably does.

I'm sorry if it wasn't true why would there be a narrative? Why would so many fans be consistently infuriated with him and why would the club be happy to let him leave for a 2nd round pick?

I don't want Jack Steele to leave but he makes mistakes. I don't want Snags to leave? I don't want Dmac to leave?

At the end of the day Billings is an on-field liability without enough redeeming features to make it worth keeping him.
Click to expand...
Everybody on this Forum wanted DMac gone before this season
 
Murraj1966 said:
That still doesn't answer the question of why the club is letting him go?
Click to expand...

Apart from clickbait article who says Saints are letting him go? He has been offered his worth to us. If he accepts our offer we haven't let him go. If he decides to leave under FA we can match.

Only then if we don't match will we be letting him go.
 
Murraj1966 said:
That still doesn't answer the question of why the club is letting him go?

Surely if there was negotiating wiggle room the club would get to a fair point regardless of earlier contracts but news reports indicate the club is happy to let him leave?
Click to expand...

Who says they’re letting him go? They’ve offered him a contract, but he is within his rights to look around. I think he’ll stay.

I think anyone calling him or any AFL player a squib is just pathetic, frankly.
 
Joffaboy said:
Don't tell me journo's are dart throwing about trades? Surely that never happens.

Out of the two would rather keep Billings. Can cover Dunstan with Bytel.

After R5 if someone said we would get a R3 or even a R2 for Dunstan we would have said ' where do we sign'?
Click to expand...
I'm the opposite. Rather keep Dunstan and ship out Billings. We'll get more for Billings. I don't think either of them will take us anywhere.
 
gringo2011 said:
Who are your A graders?
Click to expand...
Dont know, eveyone thought Dunny and DMAC would get delisted at the beginning of the year, Sinc's was just a GOP, Butler was the next Milne, and Sharman was the bloke assaulting the White House on Jan 6th. The only Connelly was Bill or Roh and Battle would tear it apart this year, along with a Hanners who ran the best 3klm time trial at the club. Higgins was just a small forward

How anyone can gauge who will be an Agrade going forward is anyones guess. To me King, Steele, Marshall are dead set A grade, Butler and Higgins at their best, and if Gres and Clark come back fit, could be but who knows.
 

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Joffaboy said:
Dont know, eveyone thought Dunny and DMAC would get delisted at the beginning of the year, Sinc's was just a GOP, Butler was the next Milne, and Sharman was the bloke assaulting the White House on Jan 6th. The only Connelly was Bill or Roh and Battle would tear it apart this year, along with a Hanners who ran the best 3klm time trial at the club. Higgins was just a small forward

How anyone can gauge who will be an Agrade going forward is anyones guess. To me King, Steele, Marshall are dead set A grade, Butler and Higgins at their best, and if Gres and Clark come back fit, could be but who knows.
Click to expand...
not everyone's convinced on Dmac and Dunstan but Sinclair is the ultimate example. There isn't a person here who would doubt his place in our side and his value to the best 22 if you asked. Though he was one of those people we thought we'd outgrown once Richo had left. He had that article celebrating him finally getting a game with Ratts after a few months.
 
This club is doing nothing good with Battle.

We should trade him for the Weed.
The blokes a bit of a squibb but is a taller KPP & does have some talent to work with.
 
Last edited:
Billings not playing for the rest of the season would give him ample time with his management to get his contract sorted and if it's not done by next week I fully expect him to go.
Use his compensation to pick up Riccardi or Brander.
 
I may as well add my two cents in ....

I rate Billings and would be happy to keep him.....but.....in terms of our structure, what he brings to the team and what he has to offer in the future, even at a 2nd round compo pick, the added flexibility that gives us in draft and trade may be too good to pass up. The same goes for Dunstan, Ross and Battle.

I'm not advocating that we jettison all four, but do think it wouldn't be too big a loss if we were to trade two.
 
Ducky Tie said:
He says here that he was told he wouldn't play. He doesn't use the word 'again', but it's not unreasonable to assume that is what he means.
View attachment 1203681
Click to expand...
you heard of broken telephone. Steele might not have heard Correctly. Dunstan may not have told Steele the truth. People just don't know what is the actual truth.
 
Winmar2Lockett said:
Our midfield has been missing key players on and off throughout the entire season and is not a dominant midfield even with all hands on deck. We desperately need a few of the young blokes to go from promising to consistently good and then to consistently very good. You make a good point that we're not good enough with him in the side... so do we keep giving him games or give Bytel a proper go to develop into a better player? You're forgetting that our younger guys are now into their 2nd, 3rd or 4th years... they're not babies anymore... we need to start relying on them as players who can stand up and play their role. Holding them back for the likes of Dunstan, who we know what we'll get, is counter productive IMO. I know I'm hard on him but I've seen these false dawns too many times.

I suppose it comes down to whether you consider Dunstan as depth or as an absolute lock for best 22 in 12 months time when we're pushing top 4. IMO he would only be staying on as a depth player... is that enough for him? That's doubtful. So we get what we can for him & hope Libba pulls another gem from the 2nd round.

As for Seb & Billings, well I think they are unfairly maligned. I was Seb's greatest critic after his last B&F win but he's had 2 pretty good years in a new role. Hopefully younger players go past him but he can stay as a back up. With JB I think it comes down to what we can get in return... an end of 1st rounder is the right price IMO. If it's after that then I prefer we keep him.

While there's no guarantee the injury gods will smile on us next year, you can't make list management decisions on 'what if we get a shitload of injuries'. You decide who stays and who goes on what is going to help the list win a bloody flag.

My personal opinion is that making Jack Bytel & co hardened, experienced senior players will get us closer to that than putting our trust in Luke Dunstan.
Click to expand...


I reckon Dunstan is best 22, every year we hope, apart from last year we are disappointed. We have moved on 3/4 of the list in 3 years. That's a full rebuild if we push out what's left. We purge when things aren't immediate but keep the average ring-ins who are no better to justify their recruitment. At some point they have to do some hard work instead of hoping to get some more cast offs to create magic and subvert the normal rebuild model. We will be young and inexperienced next year, cutting away at that is a bad idea. If we lose a few of our best 10 players every year eventually we will either arse some development or hit the skids again and have to do it the hard way.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Remove this Banner Ad

Similar threads

Fehring
List Mgmt. 2025 Trade Thread
2 3 4
Replies
93
Views
10K
goodie23
goodie23
Hubnester
  • Locked
List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV
399 400 401 402 403
Replies
10K
Views
450K
Saintos The ITK
Saintos The ITK
Hubnester
  • Locked
List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part 3
386 387 388 389 390
Replies
10K
Views
423K
Chief
Chief
Hubnester
List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part V
217 218 219 220 221
Replies
6K
Views
254K
StCicatriz
StCicatriz
Tommy Wigs
  • Locked
List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion - part 2
583 584 585 586 587
Replies
15K
Views
611K
Gavinmitchell11
G
Hubnester
Rumour Rumours & Confirmed - Trades, Free Agency & Draft [NO DISCUSSION]
2
Replies
37
Views
9K
StFly
StFly
SainterinSydney
List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.3
149 150 151 152 153
Replies
4K
Views
193K
Mr Platinum
Mr Platinum

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Back
Top