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List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

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Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link


To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...
www.bigfooty.com www.bigfooty.com
 
CaptainRisky said:
I would be very surprised if the big schlong was still there at a Rookie pick , he has been talked up a fair bit lately
Click to expand...


ESPN has him right up the top end of the power ratings. His season has been outstanding and he'll get taken in the 20s to 30s I reckon. A few teams will be wondering how he didn't get picked up in the midseason draft. Maybe he put 2 year contract terms up or something.
 
gringo2011 said:
ESPN has him right up the top end of the power ratings. His season has been outstanding and he'll get taken in the 20s to 30s I reckon. A few teams will be wondering how he didn't get picked up in the midseason draft. Maybe he put 2 year contract terms up or something.
Click to expand...
We should have taken him ,,,,,, feck
 
tomjoad said:
I agree with pretty much all you've said. These guys (maybe not Dunstan so much) have been riding the club for years. Paid handsomely for being ever so slightly above average. In fairness I think Ross and this year's version of Dunstan have tried to get the best out of themselves (Membrey, despite his deficiencies is another whom I admire for this) Billings on the other hand could have pushed himself to be better, and the fact that he didn't & hasn't speaks volumes about him. There was no incentive for him, cushy and safe in the knowledge that he didn't have to try because our list was so poor. A guy with his ability should've been leading the way. It will be a rude awakening for him if he does leave...he will not find life easy.
None of them will...but at least the other two will give it a crack.
Click to expand...
Not their fault that the system requires clubs to spend exactly the same amount irrespective of level of talent within the club.

But you're right - an influx of talent is leading to a realignment of contracts. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
 
stavro#4 said:
I think Caroline wilson may have been on the money and to be fair to her. She generally is - people don’t like acknowledging it because it generally is her breaking news that isn’t great to hear.

however I disagree with you on bottoming out. Free agency has completely changed the landscape. Example Finish second bottom and think you are getting the second best kid and 1 of 2 only elite players? Nope bottom club lets an ageing star walk and you get screwed.

I like to look at it factually. If all 3 left and we got 3 second rounders. What did we losing playing wise?
Experience ✅
Talent ❌ (only 1/3 is highly talented)

Dunstan had another purple patch and probably hurt us towards the end.
Billings has given us minimal for 18 months
Ross is the whipping boy of a lot of posters.

we also get say 1.5-1.7m in cap space back.
So we are left with an Arsenal and currency to make deals if we choose.
Click to expand...


As long as you can replace the losses it's fine but the downside of free agency is that FAs don't come to shit sides. If we finish bottom 6 the players aren't rushing in the door unless we are paying like we are paying Hill. That model isn't sustainable, we have to lose these guys that are solid for players of similar quality on bigger money. That 1.5 to 1.7 will get us 2 players of a similar standard to Hill.
 

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stavro#4 said:
I think Caroline wilson may have been on the money and to be fair to her. She generally is - people don’t like acknowledging it because it generally is her breaking news that isn’t great to hear.

however I disagree with you on bottoming out. Free agency has completely changed the landscape. Example Finish second bottom and think you are getting the second best kid and 1 of 2 only elite players? Nope bottom club lets an ageing star walk and you get screwed.

I like to look at it factually. If all 3 left and we got 3 second rounders. What did we losing playing wise?
Experience ✅
Talent ❌ (only 1/3 is highly talented)

Dunstan had another purple patch and probably hurt us towards the end.
Billings has given us minimal for 18 months
Ross is the whipping boy of a lot of posters.

we also get say 1.5-1.7m in cap space back.
So we are left with an Arsenal and currency to make deals if we choose.
Click to expand...
Excepts having all that cap space is meaningless if no one wants to come to you.

There were no good Free Agents left this year to replace them, and as we have learnt before, being a rabble at the bottom of the ladder doesn't attract free agents either. We need to keep at least 1 but ideally 2 of them so we have some depth to our list and some seniors players who can play every week.

A 2nd round pick for Billings is a crap return. Dunstan and Ross most likely would get us 3rd round compo picks, which aren't very useful to trade in good players and players from that area of the draft are very speculative. So we would be losing a lot more than we would be getting in.
 
gringo2011 said:
As long as you can replace the losses it's fine but the downside of free agency is that FAs don't come to sh*t sides. If we finish bottom 6 the players aren't rushing in the door unless we are paying like we are paying Hill. That model isn't sustainable, we have to lose these guys that are solid for players of similar quality on bigger money. That 1.5 to 1.7 will get us 2 players of a similar standard to Hill.
Click to expand...
Or maybe you cut the overpaid fat and reinvest in better quality and youth.

You can’t fault any of Libba recruitment aside from the jury stilll being out on Allison.
 
BrutThough said:
Excepts having all that cap space is meaningless if no one wants to come to you.

There were no good Free Agents left this year to replace them, and as we have learnt before, being a rabble at the bottom of the ladder doesn't attract free agents either. We need to keep at least 1 but ideally 2 of them so we have some depth to our list and some seniors players who can play every week.

A 2nd round pick for Billings is a crap return. Dunstan and Ross most likely would get us 3rd round compo picks, which aren't very useful to trade in good players and players from that area of the draft are very speculative. So we would be losing a lot more than we would be getting in.
Click to expand...
You don’t need to spend that money this year.
recontract Steele and structure a major chunk next year. Your in the same position and targeting Bing and whatever else you want next year.

your issue is you are completely inflexible. You think players go out so they must be replaced immediately with the same or better quality. Maybe we stand still next season and get more games into the core. Then we launch in 2023.

maybe we replace Dunstan and Ross with slight improvements and a fit list has us in the 8 next year.

either way - you are given options that we don’t have because of the 2019 off season.
 
stavro#4 said:
Or maybe you cut the overpaid fat and reinvest in better quality and youth.

You can’t fault any of Libba recruitment aside from the jury stilll being out on Allison.
Click to expand...


Libba has got a heap of promising kids but then we saw that under Richo, kids come in look like they'll be stars but end up average battlers when they don't take that next step. Part of that is having enough senior talent around them to bring them through quickly. GC suffer from that, you can see all the talent in their side but they need a core of 25+ players taking the heat off the kids so that they can run around gaining confidence.

Comparing us to GCs list we are not even in the same stratosphere for young talent, they have a about 15 promising kids that are looking like they have higher ceilings than our lot. It's looking like we are weakening our list and hoping for kids to come on which is a very risky strategy. I'm happy if you take out Dunstan and replace him with Luke Parker but if it's to save a bit of cash and restock with kids it's a very dangerous strategy.

We seem to be determined to replace every listed player that were here when Lethlean arrived 3 years ago. Culturally it might be a bad one.
 
gringo2011 said:
I disagree with this, Billings and Ross were easily in our top 5 players for a long time. You can argue about how good they are compared to the rest of the competition but they earned their wages. Both were paid well on actual output. Dunstan was unable to contribute to the side because of a lack of skill and fitness and was well paid on potential and because we had to pay someone. Same with DMac. Both have come good this year but neither was a good investment in wages until now.

Losing Billings but keeping Hill seems insane. I think Hill is a downgrade on Billings and he's getting paid like a superstar. It's been a really poor trade so far even with Hill playing his best footy for us in the second half of the season. Billings would look at the trade and rightly think he was worth his wage.

Ross probably feels undervalued, being asked to move further and further from the midfield and doing the team thing. If he wants to be a true outside mid he probably has to move. He's probably someone we'll see at another club and see what he actually contributed. You don't win multiple B and F awards and poll Brownlow votes if you are sh*t.

Despite Dunstan being a poor investment until now he is contributing on a similar level to Crouch so you would think something like 20% less than Crouch would be a fair wage for an extra inside mid. He improves the midfield and makes it function better as a whole.
Click to expand...

Fair enough...I actually don't want to lose Ross, but I've resigned myself to at least one or two of them going. I think Ross has managed to get the best out of himself in the years they've been at the club. Dunstan has been good this year since breaking into the team, I just can't see a future for him though other than depth which I doubt he'll go for.
Billings I just can't get on board with...his time at the club has been a huge disappointment. I just don't think he pushes himself, and it's too late to convince me otherwise. If it was up to me I'd package him & Hill as a "Buy One Get One Free" (except that we'd have to pay his wages, so we're stuck with him unfortunately) Hills last game & attitude after the match made my blood boil, it undid his last month of above average games. I'd love to know what the other players think of him, because his free ride from the coaches would have to be having an effect.
 
stavro#4 said:
You don’t need to spend that money this year.
recontract Steele and structure a major chunk next year. Your in the same position and targeting Bing and whatever else you want next year.

your issue is you are completely inflexible. You think players go out so they must be replaced immediately with the same or better quality. Maybe we stand still next season and get more games into the core. Then we launch in 2023.

maybe we replace Dunstan and Ross with slight improvements and a fit list has us in the 8 next year.

either way - you are given options that we don’t have because of the 2019 off season.
Click to expand...


So start to put huge money into a few players again so that we can keep the cycle going? You do have to replace players with players if you want to stay in challenge mode. If we miss finals next year I don't think the club has gauged just how pissed off the fans will be. They were promising something while heading in a different direction. The board might not see out the year if we are uncompetitive again.
 

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www.afl.com.au

After 13 seasons and three clubs, it's the end of the road for journeyman

St Kilda's Shaun McKernan has told teammates his playing days are over
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au

"Co-captain Jarryn Geary is closing in on a fresh one-year deal."

:oops:

Love gears but… it's time to move on, make him a coach if we need his leadership around the club.
 
stavro#4 said:
You don’t need to spend that money this year.
recontract Steele and structure a major chunk next year. Your in the same position and targeting Bing and whatever else you want next year.

your issue is you are completely inflexible. You think players go out so they must be replaced immediately with the same or better quality. Maybe we stand still next season and get more games into the core. Then we launch in 2023.

maybe we replace Dunstan and Ross with slight improvements and a fit list has us in the 8 next year.

either way - you are given options that we don’t have because of the 2019 off season.
Click to expand...
Considering the President came out mid season and said 2022 is the year we are planning on properly challenging, the expectation is we don't blow up the list and decided to be uncompetitive again for a few years with the hope that a superstar is going to suddenly want to join us.

There is a complete lack of acceptance that good teams have a lot of average players in them. Every player in the list doesn't have to be a star. This idea of shipping off anyone who has some flaws for crap returns is going to improve us is a funny one. Replacing good senior players with crap picks doesnt help anyone or improve the club. Having no senior players for these speculative, late draft picks to learn from isnt going to help anyone.
 
gringo2011 said:
So start to put huge money into a few players again so that we can keep the cycle going? You do have to replace players with players if you want to stay in challenge mode. If we miss finals next year I don't think the club has gauged just how pissed off the fans will be. They were promising something while heading in a different direction. The board might not see out the year if we are uncompetitive again.
Click to expand...
Are you seriously trying to say Steele isn’t worth the money???

Look at the damage max has done in the last 6 weeks - playing injured. Imagine having Ben to go with that.

that’s the roll of the dice I’ll take. I’ll take one step back next year to launch right into the top 4 conversation with both kings.
 
kernelT said:
It feels like we say this every 5 years or so TBH… remember this young core - Wright, White, Murdoch, Saunders, Billings, Acres, Dunstan, Templeton, McCartin, Goddard, DMac, Lonie, Sinclair?
Click to expand...
Oh stop it , your making me sick :p
 
kernelT said:
www.afl.com.au

After 13 seasons and three clubs, it's the end of the road for journeyman

St Kilda's Shaun McKernan has told teammates his playing days are over
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au

"Co-captain Jarryn Geary is closing in on a fresh one-year deal."

:oops:

Love gears but… it's time to move on, make him a coach if we need his leadership around the club.
Click to expand...
That's would be why he got a 1 year deal. Stays on the playing list, would have some type of coaching/mentor role but it's paid in the salary cap rather than from the reduced soft cap.
 

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kernelT said:
It feels like we say this every 5 years or so TBH… remember this young core - Wright, White, Murdoch, Saunders, Billings, Acres, Dunstan, Templeton, McCartin, Goddard, DMac, Lonie, Sinclair?
Click to expand...


To be fair when you look at Gold Coast's youth it's a different level to Wright, Murdoch, Saunders and Templeton.
 
BrutThough said:
Considering the President came out mid season and said 2022 is the year we are planning on properly challenging, the expectation is we don't blow up the list and decided to be uncompetitive again for a few years with the hope that a superstar is going to suddenly want to join us.

There is a complete lack of acceptance that good teams have a lot of average players in them. Every player in the list doesn't have to be a star. This idea of shipping off anyone who has some flaws for crap returns is going to improve us is a funny one. Replacing good senior players with crap picks doesnt help anyone or improve the club. Having no senior players for these speculative, late draft picks to learn from isnt going to help anyone.
Click to expand...
The same club that president is in charge of was talking top 4 8 months ago.

things happen. Things change.

if Dunstan goes you probably complain that the replacement is Matt Crouch or Brodie

the key thing is not reducing our options because we cut fat.
Billings and Dunstan are over paid fat. Ross craps on both with what he has achieved here and is the forum whipping boy. If Ross left most wouldn’t bat an eye lid.
 
stavro#4 said:
Are you seriously trying to say Steele isn’t worth the money???

Look at the damage max has done in the last 6 weeks - playing injured. Imagine having Ben to go with that.

that’s the roll of the dice I’ll take. I’ll take one step back next year to launch right into the top 4 conversation with both kings.
Click to expand...
Yeah , better than falling into the 8 and getting rolled thinking we will be better next year and it turns out like this year , Simple facts we are not good enough ATM , something has to change
 
BrutThough said:
That's would be why he got a 1 year deal. Stays on the playing list, would have some type of coaching/mentor role but it's paid in the salary cap rather than from the reduced soft cap.
Click to expand...
So instead of rolling the dice and taking a player like Schlensog in the MSD this year, we keep a list spot open for Gears?

Boo.
 
stavro#4 said:
Are you seriously trying to say Steele isn’t worth the money???

Look at the damage max has done in the last 6 weeks - playing injured. Imagine having Ben to go with that.

that’s the roll of the dice I’ll take. I’ll take one step back next year to launch right into the top 4 conversation with both kings.
Click to expand...


Steele is worth the money but we finally start to readjust wage expectations like a professional club then immediately unravel it. Seems like history repeating. Richmond can go out and get Lynch after a premiership and Geelong can chase a $1 million forward after playing off in a GF. They aren't overpaying to do that.
 
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