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List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

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Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link


To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...
www.bigfooty.com www.bigfooty.com
 
Enclosed_Animal said:
For me, this is exactly the situation where you invite a player to train with the club over the summer. Is his body cooked? Does he still have the hunger? Lets put him through a pre-season and find out. If his body gets through okay, and he still has that desire to perform, he gets a contract. We will have a ample list spots to fill this year (Carlisle, Robbo, Frawley, McKernan, Hunter are surely gone. One of Kent / Lonie and one of Clav / /Joyce too. That's 7 no brainers before we even touch the Billings, Ross and Dunstan situation). So zero risk to find out if Talia is worth a list spot
Click to expand...

I reckon he'll have a few clubs enquiring about his services. I don't think we'll have the luxury of a summer try out to be honest.
 
Murraj1966 said:
I dont care if Billings won the Brownlow at his next club, the fact is he will NEVER be more than what he is at St Kilda which is an average ball user and a squib

Good decision
Click to expand...
Billings is far from a squib. Routinely runs back with the flight of the ball or flies when harm is coming his way. This narrative is rubbish.
 
D2D3 said:
Honestly if Dunston really doesn’t think that Ratts was justified to leave him out of the side earlier in the year i question his self awareness.
Click to expand...

I mostly agree with you.
I don't think luke had the credits in the bank with past performances (in the 1's or 2's) to warrant being recalled any earlier than he was.

He was very unlucky last year though that no VFL last year meant he didn't get a chance to do what he did this year- which was smash down the selectors door with big possies and goals in the VFL.

If you were in his shoes, you'd probably feel like you haven't put a foot wrong in the last 2 years, but was left on the outer for 18 months of that time.

I think the club haven't mistreated him, but can also see how luke would have a sour taste in his mouth and be ready to walk elsewhere
 
_Maximus_12 said:
Billings is far from a squib. Routinely runs back with the flight of the ball or flies when harm is coming his way. This narrative is rubbish.
Click to expand...

I'm talking less of the squibbing contests but more of the shitting himself in vital moments which he undeniably does.

I'm sorry if it wasn't true why would there be a narrative? Why would so many fans be consistently infuriated with him and why would the club be happy to let him leave for a 2nd round pick?

I don't want Jack Steele to leave but he makes mistakes. I don't want Snags to leave? I don't want Dmac to leave?

At the end of the day Billings is an on-field liability without enough redeeming features to make it worth keeping him.
 

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Murraj1966 said:
I'm talking less of the squibbing contests but more of the shitting himself in vital moments which he undeniably does.

I'm sorry if it wasn't true why would there be a narrative? Why would so many fans be consistently infuriated with him and why would the club be happy to let him leave for a 2nd round pick?

I don't want Jack Steele to leave but he makes mistakes. I don't want Snags to leave? I don't want Dmac to leave?

At the end of the day Billings is an on-field liability without enough redeeming features to make it worth keeping him.
Click to expand...

Garbage
 
Murraj1966 said:
I'm talking less of the squibbing contests but more of the shitting himself in vital moments which he undeniably does.

I'm sorry if it wasn't true why would there be a narrative? Why would so many fans be consistently infuriated with him and why would the club be happy to let him leave for a 2nd round pick?

I don't want Jack Steele to leave but he makes mistakes. I don't want Snags to leave? I don't want Dmac to leave?

At the end of the day Billings is an on-field liability without enough redeeming features to make it worth keeping him.
Click to expand...

The weakest, squibbiest player in the AFL would be tougher and harder than anyone on this forum.

Just because internet hero's call someone a squib, it doesn't make it so.
 
Murraj1966 said:
I'm talking less of the squibbing contests but more of the shitting himself in vital moments which he undeniably does.

I'm sorry if it wasn't true why would there be a narrative? Why would so many fans be consistently infuriated with him and why would the club be happy to let him leave for a 2nd round pick?

I don't want Jack Steele to leave but he makes mistakes. I don't want Snags to leave? I don't want Dmac to leave?

At the end of the day Billings is an on-field liability without enough redeeming features to make it worth keeping him.
Click to expand...
Calling Billings an on field liability will be the funniest thing I've heard today. Interestingly enough, Billings over his career has been more likely to kick the goal in a big moment than miss it. He tends to miss more when the pressure is off.

But if thats the metric you are using to calling someone a squib or on field liability, than surely you also view Marshall as one? Missed goals which would have won us the game 3-4 times over the past 2 years.
 
Winmar2Lockett said:
I don't rate stats and I certainly hold very little weight in player ratings. They kick out some horribly dubious results.

The only asterisk I'll give you is the Coaches' votes. I find that as bizarre as Seb's last B&F win to be honest. 4 weeks of good footy & he's 2nd??? Crazy.

I just honestly don't think we'll miss Dunstan with all hands back on deck.
Click to expand...


Because our midfield is so dominant? Even with him we are still a side that looks like we fit in a sort of 8th to 16th spot kind of range. We'll lose a lot of experience and depth next year and the only way we won't miss him is if a lot of players step up. So far more have stepped down than up unfortunately. Taking away quality depth even is making yourself more vulnerable to injury plunges. We lose Dunstan, Billings, Seb like people want and we probably go to 10th to 18th sort of range if we get a few injuries.

Some people like the build more than the destination I think or the club has conditioned them to keep churning and hoping we arse a Plugger or Riewoldt. Dunstan is getting coaches votes is because he's playing well. All hands on deck is not a plan that a hope. No side gets to play the same 22 players every week. Are you happy to miss finals again next year? I reckon that will be the outcome with the expected player movement and with the forum dream of culling Seb, Ross and Dunstan.
 
The_Steadier said:
I mostly agree with you.
I don't think luke had the credits in the bank with past performances (in the 1's or 2's) to warrant being recalled any earlier than he was.

He was very unlucky last year though that no VFL last year meant he didn't get a chance to do what he did this year- which was smash down the selectors door with big possies and goals in the VFL.

If you were in his shoes, you'd probably feel like you haven't put a foot wrong in the last 2 years, but was left on the outer for 18 months of that time.

I think the club haven't mistreated him, but can also see how luke would have a sour taste in his mouth and be ready to walk elsewhere
Click to expand...


Someone suggested that the club told him he wouldn't play seniors again. If true that might have pissed him off and very unprofessional if true.
 
The Punter said:
Wood will get another year. And would they really delist both Kent and Lonie?

Should we kick the tyres on Daniel Talia, considering Carlisle and Frawley are walking out the door?
Click to expand...
It's looking like a good year for dumpster diving. Rockey, Mayne, Talia, Lynch and there will be others.
It wouldn't take a lot to be better than the DFA's we took on last year and guys like Mayne and Lynch "if" fit would cover for the loss of say Seb and JB.
 
gringo2011 said:
Someone suggested that the club told him he wouldn't play seniors again. If true that might have pissed him off and very unprofessional if true.
Click to expand...

This has been discredited by Ratts himself. He explicitly said to Dunstan that there were a few ahead ogf him and to get in the team he would have to inprove, like any coach would say to a player.

Dunstan improved and got back in and has been excellent ever since.

No coach would ever say to a player that he was never playing again except unless he had done something really bad like Tex Walker for example. Why do that to a player at the beginning of the year whren you may require him? Where would the incentive to improve be? Just incredibly ignorant for anyone to suggest Ratten said that to him.
 

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Murraj1966 said:
I'm talking less of the squibbing contests but more of the shitting himself in vital moments which he undeniably does.

I'm sorry if it wasn't true why would there be a narrative? Why would so many fans be consistently infuriated with him and why would the club be happy to let him leave for a 2nd round pick?

I don't want Jack Steele to leave but he makes mistakes. I don't want Snags to leave? I don't want Dmac to leave?

At the end of the day Billings is an on-field liability without enough redeeming features to make it worth keeping him.
Click to expand...


I think a few people have started preparing mentally for him going to another club and written off everything he's ever done well. He's a very talented player who hasn't extracted every drop which is frustrating but he's also good enough to be a good player without having to dig a well. He definitely hasn't been a player who's lifted in the crunch moments but he's also meant we were a solid if unspectacular side.

I disagree with the last statement. I think he's a good player as long as he doesn't want crazy money. Should be on about $500k a year max but maybe with a B and F bonus or something to push him along.
 
Murraj1966 said:
I'm talking less of the squibbing contests but more of the shitting himself in vital moments which he undeniably does.

I'm sorry if it wasn't true why would there be a narrative? Why would so many fans be consistently infuriated with him and why would the club be happy to let him leave for a 2nd round pick?

I don't want Jack Steele to leave but he makes mistakes. I don't want Snags to leave? I don't want Dmac to leave?

At the end of the day Billings is an on-field liability without enough redeeming features to make it worth keeping him.
Click to expand...
On-field liability? How many games has he lost through his own mistakes? I can't think of any. He might not be the match winner we'd hoped for at pick 3 but he's contributed more than most of our list has since he's been at the club.
 
ScrappyDo said:
It's looking like a good year for dumpster diving. Rockey, Mayne, Talia, Lynch and there will be others.
It wouldn't take a lot to be better than the DFA's we took on last year and guys like Mayne and Lynch "if" fit would cover for the loss of say Seb and JB.
Click to expand...


None of them look too good to me. Talia is a maybe and you'd want a couple of independent medical reports. The rest are too old or not really a priority. What is Mayne even? A sort of utility defenderish/ HF Flanky kind of thing. I'd prefer DMac. Rocky if Dunny goes perhaps but he's old, you'd have to hope someone can step up in the meantime.
 
gringo2011 said:
Because our midfield is so dominant? Even with him we are still a side that looks like we fit in a sort of 8th to 16th spot kind of range. We'll lose a lot of experience and depth next year and the only way we won't miss him is if a lot of players step up. So far more have stepped down than up unfortunately. Taking away quality depth even is making yourself more vulnerable to injury plunges. We lose Dunstan, Billings, Seb like people want and we probably go to 10th to 18th sort of range if we get a few injuries.

Some people like the build more than the destination I think or the club has conditioned them to keep churning and hoping we arse a Plugger or Riewoldt. Dunstan is getting coaches votes is because he's playing well. All hands on deck is not a plan that a hope. No side gets to play the same 22 players every week. Are you happy to miss finals again next year? I reckon that will be the outcome with the expected player movement and with the forum dream of culling Seb, Ross and Dunstan.
Click to expand...
Lets say we let all 3 go we are not going to be a 10 to 18th range side, 10 th to 14th at worse and even if we keep all 3 at best an 8th to 12th side if those 3 play most games next year. I don't want us to waste 3 to 5 years being a nothing side 8th to 10th sort of thing. Be brave try and get 3 or 4 picks in the top 30 and play Clark - Coffield - Byrnes - Connelly - King - Sharman - Bytel - Paton - Marshall have Crouch - Hill - Steele - Howard - Wilklie - Membrey as your leaders. Give the young ones a chance, Billings - Ross - Dunstan have had 7 - 8 years time for freshen up. To win a flag you need a top 4 list we dont have that be brave like Port a couple of years ago.
 
gringo2011 said:
None of them look too good to me. Talia is a maybe and you'd want a couple of independent medical reports. The rest are too old or not really a priority. What is Mayne even? A sort of utility defenderish/ HF Flanky kind of thing. I'd prefer DMac. Rocky if Dunny goes perhaps but he's old, you'd have to hope someone can step up in the meantime.
Click to expand...

Are people seriously talking about Mayne? Surely not.
 

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Look, as far as Tom Lynch is concerned, I'm the guy in these parts who has argued this is a greatest list mistake of them all - drafting Ryan Gamble and playing him instead of just playing Lynch.

But with a horde of mid-sized marking forwards (Membrey, Wood and Sharman to name three), I'm a hard pass on Lynch at this stage.

Also a hard pass on Matt Crouch.

And all I'm advocating on Talia is we see what it would cost us salary wise. With Carlisle, Frawley, Joyce and Clavarino all out of contract and it being highly unlikely all remain, it's worth talking to his management at an initial stage.
 
There’s been a few comments that people would rather a young KPD take a lost spot than Talia, but why can’t we have both?

We have an abundance of Half Backers, surely we can get rid of one and have both a young KPD and Talia?

Depends how you define “young” too. If you’re drafting a KPD, they don’t come ready made and we’re desperate for someone to help Dougal.

If by young, you mean a KPD who has been on the system for a few years, but is stuck behind a few players at their current club (like Dougal), then yes that’s the option you take but how many of those guys are out there this year? Seems a lot of them, like Payne have re-signed and you’d need to pay up Draft Picks to get them. Picks we don’t have or want to use yet if you believe the Ben King hype.

Low risk, high reward with Talia, we’ve carried Frawley for a year who was already older and more beat up. I think we’ll be using the older KPD for a few years yet until we draft and develop one.
 
jwikked said:
Who isn't Jack Steele best mates with
Click to expand...
almost becoming lenny hayes clone by the end of his career if (we hope he stays till the end with us.
 
Joffaboy said:
This has been discredited by Ratts himself. He explicitly said to Dunstan that there were a few ahead ogf him and to get in the team he would have to inprove, like any coach would say to a player.

Dunstan improved and got back in and has been excellent ever since.

No coach would ever say to a player that he was never playing again except unless he had done something really bad like Tex Walker for example. Why do that to a player at the beginning of the year whren you may require him? Where would the incentive to improve be? Just incredibly ignorant for anyone to suggest Ratten said that to him.
Click to expand...
I'm still a little bit confused with what Ratten said to Dunstan in pre-season. From what I heard Ratten say, he sort of didn't fully answer the question when asked about it and spoke about the things you mention - Bytel being ahead of him etc. Steele had an interesting ong in an interview a few weeks ago where he sort of hinted at Dunstan being told he wouldn't be picked. I don't think Dunstan has been hard done by at all, but it seems like he did get a bit of a strong message. It wouldn’t surprise me if there was a slight misunderstanding/miscommunication and Ratten/Dunstan walked away with different interpretations of the conversation.
View attachment video-1628741907.mp4
 
SaintsSeptember said:
Garbage
Click to expand...
BrutThough said:
Calling Billings an on field liability will be the funniest thing I've heard today. Interestingly enough, Billings over his career has been more likely to kick the goal in a big moment than miss it. He tends to miss more when the pressure is off.

But if thats the metric you are using to calling someone a squib or on field liability, than surely you also view Marshall as one? Missed goals which would have won us the game 3-4 times over the past 2 years.
Click to expand...
gringo2011 said:
I think a few people have started preparing mentally for him going to another club and written off everything he's ever done well. He's a very talented player who hasn't extracted every drop which is frustrating but he's also good enough to be a good player without having to dig a well. He definitely hasn't been a player who's lifted in the crunch moments but he's also meant we were a solid if unspectacular side.

I disagree with the last statement. I think he's a good player as long as he doesn't want crazy money. Should be on about $500k a year max but maybe with a B and F bonus or something to push him along.
Click to expand...
_Maximus_12 said:
On-field liability? How many games has he lost through his own mistakes? I can't think of any. He might not be the match winner we'd hoped for at pick 3 but he's contributed more than most of our list has since he's been at the club.
Click to expand...

People may not agree with me, but again I'll ask the big question; Why has the club not given it their all to keep him at St Kilda?

If he was good enough why aren't we contracting him at the same value of a few years ago? Because he's regressed.
 
Murraj1966 said:
I'm talking less of the squibbing contests but more of the shitting himself in vital moments which he undeniably does.

I'm sorry if it wasn't true why would there be a narrative? Why would so many fans be consistently infuriated with him and why would the club be happy to let him leave for a 2nd round pick?

I don't want Jack Steele to leave but he makes mistakes. I don't want Snags to leave? I don't want Dmac to leave?

At the end of the day Billings is an on-field liability without enough redeeming features to make it worth keeping him.
Click to expand...
I think you’re being harsh on Jack.

From all reports it seems he’s been struggling all year with some sort of Plant Face injury to his foot 🤪

PrvbQy5.jpg
 
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