List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part II

George · Aug 24, 2021

Continued in Part III

List Mgmt. - 2021 Trade Thread - Part III

We are onto Part 3.

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Delisted;
Oscar Clavarino
Sam Alabakis

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Dylan Roberton
Shaun McKernan
James Frawley

Current Players Out of Contract;
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link

To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...

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Restricted and Unrestricted Free Agency Window
Friday October 1 – Friday October 8

Trade Period
Players: Monday October 4 – Wednesday October 13
Picks: Monday October 4 – tbc (approx. Friday November 19)

List Lodgement 1
tbc (approx. Thursday October 28)

Delisted Free Agency Window 1
tbc (approx. Friday October 29 - Monday November 8)

List Lodgement 2 (Final date for primary list delistings)
tbc (approx. Tuesday November 9)

Delisted Free Agency Window 2
tbc (approx. Wednesday November 10 - Friday November 19)

Saintbloke · Aug 25, 2021

Younger mids should be the priority, no more old blokes

gringo2011 · Aug 25, 2021

BrutThough said:
In 4 years time when King is hitting 24-25, our current midfield types will all be hitting 30. We need to start bringing through some younger mids, not committing long term to even older ones.

I don't mind that. I remember losing a final to the Hawks and GT train, Haves, Peckett types all coming to the end and thinking that was out chance gone. Lyon put in a layer of journeymen around the kids who learnt their craft from the older guys that were retiring and soared. The ideal is finals harden them for a few years before they go full challenge mode. If a banged up old wily bastard can get him self up for one last crack it might actually be good. We have very few old payers after this year.

bird_man · Aug 25, 2021

aussierulesrules said:
Yeah that’s why we need to start contending ASAP. We don’t have 4 years to wait until Max is 24/25yo!

Steele will be 26yo next year. Jones and Billings 27, Crouch 28, Ross and Hill 29yo.

These guys are in their prime years right now. Right now. As are Marshall, Howard, Gresham, Membrey, Sinclair and Wilkie. A big chunk of our team.

And if his end to this season is anything to go by, Max is going to be ready to rip the comp a new one by as soon as next season, so our time to look to start contending is right now.

We have far too many guys in their prime years now to wait around for 4-5 years, especially when Max was already killing it by the end of this season.

And the thing about getting Parker is that he wouldn’t cost us any picks, so if we get him we’ve still got our valuable first rounder to grab a young mid, as I said earlier.

So grabbing Parker doesn’t stop us doing that.

It allows us to get the best of both worlds. A guy we can plug in immediately, who’s A-grade and helps us potentially contend immediately, and the fact he doesn’t cost us any picks leaves us with our first rounder, to grab the best available kid in the draft.

Given that getting Parker wouldn’t stop us grabbing one or more of these young kids in the draft implies that you are suggesting we trade for one or more of them, but who?

Which young gun mids are up for grabs that won’t cost us that first pick, or that won’t cost us the picks we’ve presumably got tucked away in case Bing nominates us next year?

Unless you’ve got a magic wand on you, I’m not seeing too many of them floating around!

But if Dunstan and or Ross leave we will get FA compo picks.

Bringing in Parker would mean we wouldn't, so essentially he would be costing picks as well as a very healthy contract to get him here.

CaptainRisky · Aug 25, 2021

Freo5 said:
If so it’s a big yes from me

Neither of you couldn't have watch the YouTube clip i posted

Hell will freeze over first

Joffaboy · Aug 25, 2021

gringo2011 said:
I don't mind that. I remember losing a final to the Hawks and GT train, Haves, Peckett types all coming to the end and thinking that was out chance gone. Lyon put in a layer of journeymen around the kids who learnt their craft from the older guys that were retiring and soared. The ideal is finals harden them for a few years before they go full challenge mode. If a banged up old wily bastard can get him self up for one last crack it might actually be good. We have very few old payers after this year.

I agree, however we as a supporter group may be very wary after being burned by the Hanners failure. Sure different players and different fitness levels but another Sydney mid, that would be three in four years.

Agreed that Parker is a pretty good bloody mid though.

ScrappyDo · Aug 25, 2021

BrutThough said:
Geelong added them for bargain contracts, not big money on a long term contract which is a big difference here.

Overall our age prior will drop, but the age of our starting midfield is already much older than up forward or down back. We need to start bringing in some younger mids so we have a strong midfield for when King reaches his prime.

Geelong operate outside the cap. You really shouldn't be using them to support your point.

gringo2011 · Aug 25, 2021

bird_man said:
I'd like to see us put more effort into developing midfielders. I'm not sure bringing in a aging mid is the answer.

Play Hunter Clark in the midfield where he has shown he can be a quality player.

Bytel has all the tools to become a gun if he can find more footy.

The top 10 of this year's draft is full of promising mids.

Bringing Parker in for the twilight of his career would push these guys back in the pecking order.

There are spots up for grabs and they haven't taken them. At some point you stop waiting and fill the gaps. I don't buy that Clark has been good as a mid. He doesn't chase and looks unfit. Bytel had his chances and didn't get productive enough. Byrnes is in the best 22 because he's performing at the level expected. Guys like Crouch aren't so good that a kid couldn't push them out of a spot. If we lose Ross perhaps a guy like Crouch could play his more wing/ HBF spot. That gives a prime midfield spot to Bytel or a new kid who has demanded a spot. Clark will be in his 5th season next year. He's probably at that make or break point where he will either step up or remain a good solid player.

Bytel at least has inexperience on his side.

aussierulesrules · Aug 25, 2021

gringo2011 said:
We look an outside mid down to me. We have a lot of guys who play in close but not much on the outside. Especially with Hill down back and potentially losing Billings.

I agree that we definitely need to look for some more outside class/speed/skill/run, but hopefully that’s what we could get with our first pick in the draft.

I’m not sure there are too many who fit that bill floating around on the market from other clubs, and I’m sure we all remember how much we had to pay and give up for Hill, and he’s not even that good, so the draft is probably our best bet there, and as I said just before, getting Parker wouldn’t affect who we could draft, in any way.

It also looks very likely that Billings is staying, which I’m happy enough with.

But while we have plenty who can go inside, we’ve been monstered there too many times this year to think that we couldn’t do with Parker in a big way.

Especially as his addition could free up Steele and Gresh to play forward a lot more, which I think Ratts wants.

I’m also not sure we can really rely too much on Crouch long term, while Jones also has his body issues and so does Gresh.

To me, getting Parker this year, a gun with our first in the draft, our NGA guys, a guy like Talia for FB, and then Bing next year would be an awesome overall outcome and could put us in genuine contention from next season onwards.

Joffaboy · Aug 25, 2021

gringo2011 said:
There are spots up for grabs and they haven't taken them. At some point you stop waiting and fill the gaps. I don't buy that Clark has been good as a mid. He doesn't chase and looks unfit. Bytel had his chances and didn't get productive enough. Byrnes is in the best 22 because he's performing at the level expected. Guys like Crouch aren't so good that a kid couldn't push them out of a spot. If we lose Ross perhaps a guy like Crouch could play his more wing/ HBF spot. That gives a prime midfield spot to Bytel or a new kid who has demanded a spot. Clark will be in his 5th season next year. He's probably at that make or break point where he will either step up or remain a good solid player.

Bytel at least has inexperience on his side.

Bytel last game 17 possessions (not enough), 8 tackles (I think) and 2 goals. Get two more possessions a qtr and that is an above average mid.

Thought after DMAC and Dunstans were written off in their 7th season, that you would be wary on writing off Clark after 4 seasons? make or break? Don't think so.

If a starting 22 mid is brought in, up to the likes of Bytel et al to break into the team. I only wanted to him to have a go at it like Byrnes has had. If he is not good enough, so be it, but he needs to be given the opportunity and last game showed really encouraging signs.

But as you rightly point out, he needs to lift his productivity and clearances. he was bumped off the ball a few times on Sunday so needs to put on a bit of bulk as well.

Dard Ball Get · Aug 25, 2021

Roughly what money are Ross and Dunstan on atm?

GeTrain · Aug 25, 2021

I don't get the talk about Parker. Yeah he's a very good player but his age profile doesn't fit ours. And we'd be tying up 2-3 mil of cap into a bloke that's going to be 30. If it was a 2 year deal I'd be for it, but not 4 years.

Strahany · Aug 25, 2021

Considering Parker is an unrestricted free agent, we don't necessarily have to be paying big money. If he wants a longer term deal and will accept a lower salary, then I'd be happy to consider; otherwise, it's a no. Bringing him in (at all) will eat up compensation picks from Dunstan/Ross/Billings, so I wouldn't want to be burning salary, too, on an ageing player. Plus, I believe a lower salary would trigger a lower value compensation pick for Sydney, and therefore reduce the deduction of value of our compensation pick(s).

SaintsSeptember · Aug 25, 2021

aussierulesrules said:
Yeah that’s why we need to start contending ASAP. We don’t have 4 years to wait until Max is 24/25yo!

Steele will be 26yo next year. Jones and Billings 27, Crouch 28, Ross and Hill 29yo.

These guys are in their prime years right now. Right now. And if his end to this season is anything to go by, Max is going to be ready to rip the comp a new one by as soon as next season, so our time to look to start contending is right now.

We have too many guys in their prime years now to wait around for 4-5 years, especially when Max was already killing it by the end of this season.

And the thing about getting Parker is that he wouldn’t cost us any picks, so if we get him we’ve still got our valuable first rounder to grab a young mid, as I said earlier.

So grabbing Parker doesn’t stop us doing that.

It allows us to get the best of both worlds. A guy we can plug in immediately who’s A-grade and helps us potentially contend immediately, and the fact he doesn’t cost us any picks leaves us with our first rounder to grab the best available kid in the draft.

Given that getting Parker wouldn’t stop us grabbing one or more of these young kids in the draft implies that you are suggesting we trade for one or more of them but who?

Which young gun mids are up for grabs that won’t cost us that first pick, or that won’t cost us the picks we’ve presumably got tucked away in case Bing nominates us next year?

Unless you’ve got a magic wand on you, I’m not seeing too many of them floating around!

Best thing you can do is draft an average of two young keepers every year, and trade to fill the gaps.
We've had too many dry years in the past.

2006: 2 Armitage - 13 years. Geary-15 years
2007: 1 Steven 12 years.
2008: 0
2009: 0
2010: 0
2011: 2 Ross 10 years Webster 10 years.
2012: 0
2013: 2 Billings 8 years , Dunstan 8 years
2014: 3? McKenzie , Lonie? , Sinclair ( FACT - we haven't drafted anyone better than Lonie for his role in 7 years ).
2015: 1 Gresham 6 years.
2016: Maximum of 3 ( Long, Battle, Marshall ).
2017: Maximum of 4 ( Clark, Coffield, Paton, Clavarino )
2018: Maximum of 3.

So even counting the likes of Lonie and McKenzie, who are disputably nothing more than depth. We only drafted 9 "keepers" in a decade.
At that rate it would take us 24 years to draft 22 players. No wonder we have so many traded in players.
So when we trad a draft pick for a 25 year old, we probably only get a few years from them.

We laugh at old man Murphy still playing for Carlton. We really aren't in a position to laugh. Joel Selwood still playing at the Cats.
Most of them have a spread of players in between. New ones come in and replace the retirees.

At least the last few drafts have looked good. I'm not seeing donuts there.

LongParker · Aug 25, 2021

Joffaboy said:
Bytel last game 17 possessions (not enough), 8 tackles (I think) and 2 goals. Get two more possessions a qtr and that is an above average mid.

Thought after DMAC and Dunstans were written off in their 7th season, that you would be wary on writing off Clark after 4 seasons? make or break? Don't think so.

If a starting 22 mid is brought in, up to the likes of Bytel et al to break into the team. I only wanted to him to have a go at it like Byrnes has had. If he is not good enough, so be it, but he needs to be given the opportunity and last game showed really encouraging signs.

But as you rightly point out, he needs to lift his productivity and clearances. he was bumped off the ball a few times on Sunday so needs to put on a bit of bulk as well.

Let's not forget Gresh

GeTrain · Aug 25, 2021

You also have to realise getting Parker in free agency gets rid of any compensation we'd get from Ross and Dunstan. Meaning getting Windhager and Owens becomes harder

hangdog · Aug 25, 2021

aussierulesrules said:
I agree that we definitely need to look for some more outside class/speed/skill/run, but hopefully that’s what we could get with our first pick in the draft.

I’m not sure there are too many who fit that bill floating around on the market from other clubs, and I’m sure we all remember how much we had to pay and give up for Hill, and he’s not even that good, so the draft is probably our best bet there, and as I said just before, getting Parker wouldn’t affect who we could draft, in any way.

Jordan Clark from Geelong. Getting no game time at the Cats and looks like Max Holmes has jumped him in recent weeks. OOC next season.

Winmar2Lockett · Aug 25, 2021

Mowman said:
Parker missed 1 game in 5 years I thought I heard during the game the other day

Hanners had missed 6 games in 5 years

aussierulesrules said:
Yeah that’s why we need to start contending ASAP. We don’t have 4 years to wait until Max is 24/25yo!

Steele will be 26yo next year. Jones and Billings 27, Crouch 28, Ross and Hill 29yo.

These guys are in their prime years right now. Right now. As are Marshall, Howard, Gresham, Membrey, Sinclair, Wilkie and Butler. All 25yo or older next year. A big-assed chunk of our team.

And if his end to this season is anything to go by, Max is going to be ready to rip the comp a new one by as soon as next season, so our time to look to start contending is right now.

We have far too many guys in their prime years now to wait around for 4-5 years, especially when Max was already killing it by the end of this season.

And the thing about getting Parker is that he wouldn’t cost us any picks, so if we get him we’ve still got our valuable first rounder to grab a young mid, as I said earlier.

So grabbing Parker doesn’t stop us doing that.

It allows us to get the best of both worlds. A guy we can plug in immediately, who’s A-grade and helps us potentially contend immediately, and the fact he doesn’t cost us any picks leaves us with our first rounder, to grab the best available kid in the draft.

Given that getting Parker wouldn’t stop us grabbing one or more of these young kids in the draft implies that you are suggesting we trade for one or more of them, but who?

Which young gun mids are up for grabs that won’t cost us that first pick, or that won’t cost us the picks we’ve presumably got tucked away in case Bing nominates us next year?

Unless you’ve got a magic wand on you, I’m not seeing too many of them floating around!

You've convinced me.

#parkertrain2021

St Neil · Aug 25, 2021

Gavinmitchell11 said:
the other one I’ve heard is Rhylee West

14

Rhylee West

Age
25

Ht

183cm

Wt
82kg

Pos.
Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D
12.3

3

K
5.7

2

HB
6.7

4

M
2.5

3

T
1.5

3

G
0.5

3

D
12.0

3

K
6.0

2

HB
6.0

3

M
2.7

3

T
2.0

3

G
0.3

3

D
13.0

4

K
5.6

3

HB
7.4

5

M
2.2

3

T
1.4

4

G
0.6

3

. That could be to any of a few clubs though.

Big yes from me. Can play. The kid is rotting on the vine at the Bulldogs.

Yes from me for Parker as well. Can’t believe the Swans would let him go though. Not that it matters, but wasn’t he a Saints supporter as a kid?

Winmar2Lockett · Aug 25, 2021

CaptainRisky said:
Its more than just leadership that causes a loss , if leadership was the sole cause of how a team played some teams should never be beaten
Lets just say we have different ideas on this and we move on , Im not one to go back and forth all day , we see that enough on here

Its less about never being beaten and more about not seeing total capitulations so often.

BigMonty · Aug 25, 2021

In our glory years there were many games where we had Lennie Roo even BJ that would just say come on lads this shit stops now.... its our turn and they would single-handedly turn the stk ship around.

That's what wins flags...well almost..

I see it in Steele and Dougie and Ryder. Occasionally with Marshall...that's it.

Parker has those traits and he had ripped us a new one on many occasions. If our coaches reckon we need that leadership by on field example then we go for him and burn the compo for Dunstan and Ross bring then so be it.

Otherwise we really need some extra outside run and spread. We get back next year Gresham and Clarke I fear are both special but not on the spread and are very offensively minded.

Billings is not the Parker type either. Bytel Connelly and Byrnes need more bit player development roles for at least another 2 years before stepping up to the next level. Anyone we draft are in the same boat.

A fit Hannas over the last two years would have definitely helped with that hard over the ball commitment and our other expensive recruit Hill well enough said.

Having Parker I believe this year would have stopped those blow outs early in the year and probably have had us playing next week, despite our injuries and the hard draw.

So I reckon it's a yes from me. He could even take Battle under his wing and teach him to be a marking forward with patches on the ball and also show what hardness really is.

Still allows us frd pick and some later bargains.

On SM-G977B using BigFooty.com mobile app

CaptainRisky · Aug 25, 2021

Winmar2Lockett said:
Its less about never being beaten and more about not seeing total capitulations so often.

Its coaching as well , having a plan when things get pear shaped

kernelT · Aug 25, 2021

aussierulesrules said:
Yeah that’s why we need to start contending ASAP. We don’t have 4 years to wait until Max is 24/25yo!

Steele will be 26yo next year. Jones and Billings 27, Crouch 28, Ross and Hill 29yo.

These guys are in their prime years right now. Right now. As are Marshall, Howard, Gresham, Membrey, Sinclair, Wilkie and Butler. All 25yo or older next year. A big-assed chunk of our team.

And if his end to this season is anything to go by, Max is going to be ready to rip the comp a new one by as soon as next season, so our time to look to start contending is right now.

We have far too many guys in their prime years now to wait around for 4-5 years, especially when Max was already killing it by the end of this season.

And the thing about getting Parker is that he wouldn’t cost us any picks, so if we get him we’ve still got our valuable first rounder to grab a young mid, as I said earlier.

So grabbing Parker doesn’t stop us doing that.

It allows us to get the best of both worlds. A guy we can plug in immediately, who’s A-grade and helps us potentially contend immediately, and the fact he doesn’t cost us any picks leaves us with our first rounder, to grab the best available kid in the draft.

Given that getting Parker wouldn’t stop us grabbing one or more of these young kids in the draft implies that you are suggesting we trade for one or more of them, but who?

Which young gun mids are up for grabs that won’t cost us that first pick, or that won’t cost us the picks we’ve presumably got tucked away in case Bing nominates us next year?

Unless you’ve got a magic wand on you, I’m not seeing too many of them floating around!

Parker aside, I don't think we can afford to plan a tilt for 4-5 years time… we've really messed up our recent recruiting if that is the plan.

The other thing worth noting is the comp doesn't seem to be particularly strong at the moment so with a decent draw and injury run there's no reason we're not competitive with the current list… a couple more key pieces and we should be up to our eyeballs, whilst also hitting the draft for young talent.

MOLTEN GANGLANDS · Aug 25, 2021

parker's a gun but would prefer to plan for the long term window. Adding parker alongside crouch/jones/hanners etc means for guys like Byrnes, Bytel, Sonsie (here's hopin), Clark, even Gresh getting a look into the midfield becomes that much harder. Either we back our talent/recruiters in or we go the short term fix.. prefer to back ourselves in and fail than grab parker and fail.

Moorabbin Ghost · Aug 25, 2021

Mowman said:
I would rather Parker the next 4 years then Dunstan and Ross the next four years

Id rather Parker the next 10 years than Ross for 1 year.

aussierulesrules · Aug 25, 2021

bird_man said:
I'd like to see us put more effort into developing midfielders. I'm not sure bringing in a aging mid is the answer.

Play Hunter Clark in the midfield where he has shown he can be a quality player.

Bytel has all the tools to become a gun if he can find more footy.

The top 10 of this year's draft is full of promising mids.

Bringing Parker in for the twilight of his career would push these guys back in the pecking order.

For mine I’d want more of a reason to not bring in a genuine gun of the comp and club captain, who’s played in a premiership, who could help us win a flag in the next 3 years, and who wouldn’t cost us any picks (except maybe a compo pick).

Again I think we need to look to contend immediately (especially as there doesn’t seem to be a Brisbane/Geelong/Hawthorn/Richmond type dynasty team out there, for the time being) and waiting around for young guys to develop into hopefully being as good as Parker already is isn’t necessarily our best play. Especially with such a big chunk of our team in that 25-29yo age bracket next year and in the prime of their careers right now.

I also think it’s fraught with danger hoping that Crouch’s body holds up for long campaigns going forward, and both he and Jones have been found wanting against really good midfields this year, so for mine, if Parker is available and willing to sign f4 years- and passes a thorough medical- it would be a relative no-brainer.

It would give us options up the wazoo for rotating all the guys you mentioned and the others in the midfield through the middle, wings, HBF, HFF, inside 50 and on the bench.

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