List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part I

[bird_man]

I'm pretty sure our offer would be identical to Max's contract at $750k,
$1.5M between them.

To put that in to perspective, what would we think the other forward combos are on?
Jroo & Lynch -- 1.8M+
Hawkins & Jezza -- 1.8M+
Buddy & Reid -- 1.7M+
Kennedy & Darling -- 1.5M+
Naughton & Bruce --1.5M+

We needn't about Ben breaking our cap. The banker is a pro.

I doubt Ben accepts a 750k offer.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

That’s implying Sharman continues developing at the level you he showed, which is a 5 game sample size.

king is a genuine star of a forward.

a genuine star of a forward that half our supporter base wants to plonk in defence

 

[ScrappyDo]

I doubt Ben accepts a 750k offer.

Well the rate was set when they signed Max to that long term. He gets what his brother signed for EOS.

What Ben "accepts" isn't even up for discussion now.
If he ever wants to play at StKilda with his brother then he can only jump this year or sign at the GC again. He's almost missed his UFA window now if we went anywhere else as he'd be 31-32 by the time he was eligible. 2 more years at GC and that UFA window remains shut for life.

We'll never have a better chance to extract him than this year whilst he's out of the media and OOC.

 

[bird_man]

Well the rate was set when they signed Max to that long term. He gets what his brother signed for EOS.

What Ben "accepts" isn't even up for discussion now.
If he ever wants to play at StKilda with his brother then he can only jump this year or sign at the GC again. He's almost missed his UFA window now if we went anywhere else as he'd be 31-32 by the time he was eligible. 2 more years at GC and that UFA window remains shut for life.

We'll never have a better chance to extract him than this year whilst he's out of the media and OOC.

Well if you are genuinely serious about wanting him this year the price will have to be more than $750k.

Especially considering that it will likely be a long term deal taking him well into the prime of his career.

Max will be around 25 when he comes out of his most recent contract and will likely be looking for more with his next. He signed his contract as 20 year old with not a lot of footy behind him.

Other clubs will be offering Ben $1m a year on a long term deal.

I'm more that happy for the club to have a contract offer of 750k on the table because I'm not too fussed either way.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Well if you are genuinely serious about wanting him this year the price will have to be more than $750k.

Especially considering that it will likely be a long term deal taking him well into the prime of his career.

Max will be around 25 when he comes out of his most recent contract and will likely be looking for more with his next. He signed his contract as 20 year old with not a lot of footy behind him.

Other clubs will be offering Ben $1m a year on a long term deal.

I'm more that happy for the club to have a contract offer of 750k on the table because I'm not too fussed either way.

How do you propose we'd compete with the other offers then?

 

[PlayerNumber9]

How do you propose we'd compete with the other offers then?

"Ben, would you like to play with your twin brother."

It's as simple as that. If it becomes a bidding war he will end up at the druggies, or the baggers. We are actually at a disadvantage in a bidding war as we have to pay Max the same - there is no way they can be on different terms (other than because of contract timing issues). Is it possible that Max has left money on the table for Ben, as Max could easily have squeezed the club for more money.

I don't think that Ben is a priority, but if he wants to come and play for us, then who would say no? If he doesn't come at the end of the year, we simply have a full set of picks and cap space to go trading with.

 

[St Neil]

On Monday night Brendan Lade was interviewed on 3AW by Sam McClure and Gerard Healy. In a light hearted question, McClure asked Lade whether he knew that Ben King

34

Ben King

Age

25

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.5

4star

T

0.5

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.5

5star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.2

3star

G

1.0

4star

was seen socialising with brother Max and a number of other Saints players.

They all had a giggle about it, Lade played a straight bat and said that Ben was probably just having a drink with his brother, while Healy needled McClure and called him a stirrer.

I can’t find a link to the interview. But it was about 6:30pm on Monday.

It’s clearly all innocent and harmless, but it does indicate that the Suns will have a challenge to keep Ben. Only a fool would deny that there there will be some persuasive lobbying going on.

If ever Saints are going to entice Ben to come home to Moorabbin it will be this year.

 

[bird_man]

How do you propose we'd compete with the other offers then?

Offer more than $750k if we desperately want him.

Otherwise let him go, but I doubt he is that desperate to get here he'll accept a such a smaller offer to what other clubs have on the table.

 

[ScrappyDo]

"Ben, would you like to play with your twin brother."

It's as simple as that. If it becomes a bidding war he will end up at the druggies, or the baggers. We are actually at a disadvantage in a bidding war as we have to pay Max the same - there is no way they can be on different terms (other than because of contract timing issues). Is it possible that Max has left money on the table for Ben, as Max could easily have squeezed the club for more money.

I don't think that Ben is a priority, but if he wants to come and play for us, then who would say no? If he doesn't come at the end of the year, we simply have a full set of picks and cap space to go trading with.

That's what I'm trying to get through to bird_brain.
We will be offering a package that has a set $$$ amount, an opportunity to live near his mates and family, an opportunity to play with his Bro, and the chance to be part of his favorite club's 2nd premiership.
There will be some other marketing payment side benefits somewhere, but not the likes that can compete with clubs that have been trading in corruption for decades and a really really good at it.
We will not participate in a bidding war of any sort. It's just a choice Ben has to make, and as I said his time is running out fast.

 

[chris_h_11]

How will it be a recruiting failure not to give up 2 first round picks and massive amount of money for a key forward when are already strong in that.area?

Because it's such a rare feat that we have the inside running on a quality player like this. The family connection, the history as a supporter, the 2 poster boys for the club for the next decade just happen to be best mates and were born 10 mins apart. We've overpayed for mercenaries for so long now just to meet the minimum cap, one day I just want one deal that lands our way a bit (that doesnt include us giving up a future 2nd for someone playing VFL at a top club who's 'looking for opportunities'.)

This kid is 2m tall and is a very very good footballer, they don't grow on trees.

Didnt see too many Cats supporters knocking back the idea of Danger when he was touted to come home "cause they've got too many mids" - when you get the chance to sign a gun, you get it done.

It would be such a St Kilda thing to do, to let him slip.

 

[bird_man]

Because it's such a rare feat that we have the inside running on a quality player like this. The family connection, the history as a supporter, the 2 poster boys for the club for the next decade just happen to be best mates and were born 10 mins apart. We've overpayed for mercenaries for so long now just to meet the minimum cap, one day I just want one deal that lands our way a bit (that doesnt include us giving up a future 2nd for someone playing VFL at a top club who's 'looking for opportunities'.)

This kid is 2m tall and is a very very good footballer, they don't grow on trees.

Didnt see too many Cats supporters knocking back the idea of Danger when he was touted to come home "cause they've got too many mids" - when you get the chance to sign a gun, you get it done.

It would be such a St Kilda thing to do, to let him slip.

Dangerfield came to the cats when most of their mids had either finished up or were nearing the end. It's not a great example.

He was also a FA and whilst it ended up going to a trade it was a ripping deal for Geelong.

I doubt GC will go as easily on us unfortunately.

If the club were to see missing out on Ben as a massive failure they'll be using their hearts instead of their heads.

Having a brother here won't help us pay less in any trade and won't change the fact we have an average midfield and backline.

 

[bird_man]

That's what I'm trying to get through to bird_brain.
We will be offering a package that has a set $$$ amount, an opportunity to live near his mates and family, an opportunity to play with his Bro, and the chance to be part of his favorite club's 2nd premiership.
There will be some other marketing payment side benefits somewhere, but not the likes that can compete with clubs that have been trading in corruption for decades and a really really good at it.
We will not participate in a bidding war of any sort. It's just a choice Ben has to make, and as I said his time is running out fast.

Bird brain

All well and good if we just say it's 750k or nothing.

I just don't see him taking it.

And as if he wouldn't be getting extra upsides from other clubs. Do a bit of reading on what Essendon recruits have managed to get in recent times.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Because it's such a rare feat that we have the inside running on a quality player like this. The family connection, the history as a supporter, the 2 poster boys for the club for the next decade just happen to be best mates and were born 10 mins apart. We've overpayed for mercenaries for so long now just to meet the minimum cap, one day I just want one deal that lands our way a bit (that doesnt include us giving up a future 2nd for someone playing VFL at a top club who's 'looking for opportunities'.)

This kid is 2m tall and is a very very good footballer, they don't grow on trees.

Didnt see too many Cats supporters knocking back the idea of Danger when he was touted to come home "cause they've got too many mids" - when you get the chance to sign a gun, you get it done.

It would be such a St Kilda thing to do, to let him slip.

Sorry this is totally wrong.
We flat out can't match other clubs for salary, paper bags of cash, property portfolios etc, or trade value. So how you can call it a failure if Ben chooses the big money is beyond me. Also Danger did not put himself on the market. He was only ever going one place so your analogy is in fact the opposite of what Birdy is talking about.

 

[chris_h_11]

....He was only ever going one place....

This is what I expect from our recruitment team with Ben. The failure is not about the deal, it's about convincing Ben that he HAS to be at St Kilda.

 

[Strahany]

In hindsight, we were kissed on the dick when Max went down with his ACL; there is no way he would’ve lasted until our pick, otherwise.

With Ben now surrounded by Max and his (St Kilda) friends, experiencing a potential lure that he never would have otherwise had, his ACL may just be another kiss on said penis.

 

[sammm]

Bird brain

All well and good if we just say it's 750k or nothing.

I just don't see him taking it.

And as if he wouldn't be getting extra upsides from other clubs. Do a bit of reading on what Essendon recruits have managed to get in recent times.

As well. If I was Ben going bomberscarlton wouldn't be so bad. I hat saying that. Getting more than $1mill. Per year for 5 years better than the measly $750k for Saints . He will be in the same state can see his family etc

 

[StJHD]

Just out of interest...do Max and Ben share the same manager?

 

[Strahany]

Also, regarding the $$ side of things, I’m not overly worried by what other teams are able to offer.

If Ben has any interest in coming to St Kilda, the club not only has the ability to reference Max’s contract to get Ben on a lesser contract up front, but also are able to provide the reassurance of being looked after in the long run (“St Kilda family” etc.)

This all counts for nought if Ben prefers to stay north or, alternatively, be near but not that near to Max.

 

[St Neil]

In hindsight, we were kissed on the dick when Max went down with his ACL; there is no way he would’ve lasted until our pick, otherwise.

With Ben now surrounded by Max and his (St Kilda) friends, experiencing a potential lure that he never would have otherwise had, his ACL may just be another kiss on said penis.

IMO you are bang on. Maybe I’m wrong, but the timing of Ben’s ACL injury seems like fate.

This comment could age very badly, but it just seems as if it’s meant to be that Ben will join Max at the Saints. The coincidence of circumstances has seen the stars align just at the right time. Sometimes things are just meant to be.

I acknowledge that Ben could re-sign with the Suns. He could also get far more lucrative offers to join other Victorian clubs. This is undeniably true. And none of us could criticise the lad if he did either of the above.

But my hunch is that he will do neither. I don’t know why. I have no good oil. I just think the opportunity to play with his twin, close to home and family, for the club both lads adored and dreamed of representing as boys, will be irresistible.

Sometimes happiness and contentment is built on the reality of living a lifelong dream. The opportunity cost of not doing that would be a big call for anyone to make.

 

[Diehard Saint]

That's what I'm trying to get through to bird_brain.
We will be offering a package that has a set $$$ amount, an opportunity to live near his mates and family, an opportunity to play with his Bro, and the chance to be part of his favorite club's 2nd premiership.
There will be some other marketing payment side benefits somewhere, but not the likes that can compete with clubs that have been trading in corruption for decades and a really really good at it.
We will not participate in a bidding war of any sort. It's just a choice Ben has to make, and as I said his time is running out fast.

Yep.
It’ll come down to how important it is to him to play with Max.
Other clubs will offer more, no doubt. Money vs brotherly love and a childhood dream basically.
It’s not exactly as if $750k is a piddling amount for four years in the game and coming off an ACL.
I would imagine there’ll be an enticing marketing package too for the twin towers of the club. Our marketing people would be salivating at the idea.

 

[Saint_Dos]

As well. If I was Ben going bomberscarlton wouldn't be so bad. I hat saying that. Getting more than $1mill. Per year for 5 years better than the measly $750k for Saints . He will be in the same state can see his family etc

Wont be Carlton. They wont have the trade value as havent used a first rounder in the past 2 years after picking up Williams, Saad and Cerra. Need to use 1 every 3 years i think.
He is going to cost the best part of 2 first rounder depending on where they are. Or a bloody good player and a first rounder.
GC wont let him go cheap...

Hawthorn could be another interesting one as have bugger all fwd line and a fair chunk of salary cap to work with.
Same goes with North

 

[CaptainRisky]

Dangerfield came to the cats when most of their mids had either finished up or were nearing the end. It's not a great example.

He was also a FA and whilst it ended up going to a trade it was a ripping deal for Geelong.

I doubt GC will go as easily on us unfortunately.

If the club were to see missing out on Ben as a massive failure they'll be using their hearts instead of their heads.

Having a brother here won't help us pay less in any trade and won't change the fact we have an average midfield and backline.

Just like most on here and other social media pages

 

[CaptainRisky]

Yep.
It’ll come down to how important it is to him to play with Max.
Other clubs will offer more, no doubt. Money vs brotherly love and a childhood dream basically.
It’s not exactly as if $750k is a piddling amount for four years in the game and coming off an ACL.
I would imagine there’ll be an enticing marketing package too for the twin towers of the club. Our marketing people would be salivating at the idea.

Considering our marketing is average to say the least , they will need to get a wriggle on if he was to chose us

 

[CaptainRisky]

IMO you are bang on. Maybe I’m wrong, but the timing of Ben’s ACL injury seems like fate.

This comment could age very badly, but it just seems as if it’s meant to be that Ben will join Max at the Saints. The coincidence of circumstances has seen the stars align just at the right time. Sometimes things are just meant to be.

I acknowledge that Ben could re-sign with the Suns. He could also get far more lucrative offers to join other Victorian clubs. This is undeniably true. And none of us could criticise the lad if he did either of the above.

But my hunch is that he will do neither. I don’t know why. I have no good oil. I just think the opportunity to play with his twin, close to home and family, for the club both lads adored and dreamed of representing as boys, will be irresistible.

Sometimes happiness and contentment is built on the reality of living a lifelong dream. The opportunity cost of not doing that would be a big call for anyone to make.

I'm not sure that the pull to play together is as strong now as it was when they were younger as who wants to be known as the better King when they play in the same team ?
Not so easy to compare them if they are in different teams

 

[MITSUHIRATO]

Wont be Carlton. They wont have the trade value as havent used a first rounder in the past 2 years after picking up Williams, Saad and Cerra. Need to use 1 every 3 years i think.
He is going to cost the best part of 2 first rounder depending on where they are. Or a bloody good player and a first rounder.
GC wont let him go cheap...

Hawthorn could be another interesting one as have bugger all fwd line and a fair chunk of salary cap to work with.
Same goes with North

I don’t think Carlton would be making a play for King given we have his role covered with McKay and our lack of salary cap space.

The club has also been open with its intent on going to the draft this year in what’s tipped to be a KP rich crop.

With regards to being unable to trade our first rounder; We used two first rounders in both 2018 and 2019; so I think from memory that gives us some leeway with the restrictions if we were to go down that unlikely path again.