List Mgmt. 2023 Draft/Trade/FA thread

[Scythe]

Seems a good time to pin this:


OOC players:

• Michael Hibberd (retired)
• Deakyn Smith (delisted)
• Andy Moniz-Wakefield
• Jake Melksham (delisted, will be re-drafted as a rookie)
• Luke Dunstan (retired)
• James Jordon (signed with Sydney as a Free Agent)
• Kye Turner (delisted)

Traded out:

• James Harmes (Bulldogs)
• Brodie Grundy (Sydney)

Traded in:

• Tom Fullarton (Brisbane)
• Jack Billings (St Kilda)
• Shane McAdam (Adelaide)

Drafted:

• Caleb Windsor (Pick 7)
• Koltyn Tholstrup (Pick 13)
• Kynan Brown (Rookie)

 

[Bluelegs]

For us to get Reid we’d have to find another top 10 pick to give West Coast along with Freo’s pick.

Wrangling GC’s first round pick (say pick 8) by giving them Freo’s second and our second to match their Academy bids, and any other 2023 picks we get from trades (given we’ve already lost our third and fourth rounders), plus our 2024 first, might be an option. Then send Freo’s first plus GC’s first to West Coast for pick 1 and maybe something coming back.

Not really worth it when there’s probably someone just as good as Reid who’ll be available at Freo’s pick. George Wardlaw from 2022 comes to mind.

Would have been so much easier if Jackson had just gone to West Coast sigh

Our two second rounders are worth less in points than Gold Coasts first. Would have to trade our first and second and keep the Freo picks.

That gives us two top ten picks and an early second to entice West Coast. Probably dont take even that. We certainly won't get anything back.

 

[schmuttt]

Eagles apparently have a WA guy they want who will go top 5, would mean we'd need to stump up a pick in that range to entice them to trade #1. Even then they probably don't as they can't guarantee their guy will be there at pick 4-5.

 

[omit]

Eagles apparently have a WA guy they want who will go top 5, would mean we'd need to stump up a pick in that range to entice them to trade #1. Even then they probably don't as they can't guarantee their guy will be there at pick 4-5.

I don't see the eagles trading that far down the draft. If they are keen on another top 5 player then its more likely they swap their future first, or package their second rounder and a player

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Good discussion on rucks, pointless position to invest in, waste of money

 

[Crusty Demon]

Midfielders and forwards please.

 

[TheBoss]

I have zero faith in our list management. We will probably get Jack Silvagni

3

Jack Silvagni

Age

28

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.9

4star

MG

176.9

3star

D

5.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.3

1star

M

1.7

2star

T

0.7

1star

MG

91.0

2star

D

9.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.8

5star

MG

131.4

3star

to play as a third ruck, and another inside mid with iffy disposal to toil away in the VFL

 

[schmuttt]

Hate to say it but gotta admit defeat on the Topkent debate about Ports mids. Our two best are incredible when on but our depth in there really sucks.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Hate to say it but gotta admit defeat on the Topkent debate about Ports mids. Our two best are incredible when on but our depth in there really sucks.

The first of MANY apologies coming Topkent 's way I assume. The guy knows his stuff.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Our two second rounders are worth less in points than Gold Coasts first. Would have to trade our first and second and keep the Freo picks.

That gives us two top ten picks and an early second to entice West Coast. Probably dont take even that. We certainly won't get anything back.

That’s why I said we’d have to give them our two seconds PLUS any other picks (thirds, fourths, of which we currently have none) we get in 2023 trades to match the points of GC’s first PLUS our 2024 first rounder, which is more valuable to GC than our 2023 first rounder

 

[Bluelegs]

That’s why I said we’d have to give them our two seconds PLUS any other picks (thirds, fourths, of which we currently have none) we get in 2023 trades to match the points of GC’s first PLUS our 2024 first rounder, which is more valuable to GC than our 2023 first rounder

Where do you see those picks coming from? Maybe we get a late third for Jordon if we're lucky. We will get nothing for Tomlinson.

Gold coast need points now, next year isn't really relevant. Gotta give them significantly more points than their first is worth or they won't even bother or find a better deal.

Even if they did take your deal I wouldn't be trading two seconds and next year's first for their first this year. Would rather trade our first this year with our second and keep the Freo picks as I mentioned.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Where do you see those picks coming from? Maybe we get a late third for Jordon if we're lucky. We will get nothing for Tomlinson.

Gold coast need points now, next year isn't really relevant. Gotta give them significantly more points than their first is worth or they won't even bother or find a better deal.

Even if they did take your deal I wouldn't be trading two seconds and next year's first for their first this year. Would rather trade our first this year with our second and keep the Freo picks as I mentioned.

GC can get points from anywhere, including lower picks. This would be about giving them a pick in 2024 that they can actually use. Like Collingwood in 2020 trading their 2021 first rounder for two 2020 second rounders from GWS. They needed points in 2021 for Daicos, but they didn’t trade their 2021 first rounder for those points, they traded it for 2020 picks they could actually use.

You don’t trade your first rounder to get points, you use it to get early picks in the next draft that won’t be eaten up by points bidding or you do it pre-emptively like the Pies in 2021

 

[schmuttt]

The first of MANY apologies coming Topkent 's way I assume. The guy knows his stuff.

 

[Topkent]

Hate to say it but gotta admit defeat on the Topkent debate about Ports mids. Our two best are incredible when on but our depth in there really sucks.

Atleast you can front up. Not expecting any of the others who went hard too

 

[dylan93]

If we can't nab a Ben King

34

Ben King

Age

25

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.5

4star

T

0.5

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.5

5star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.2

3star

G

1.0

4star

type through a trade using 3 of those picks likely inside the top 25, I reckon we just go to the draft.

Haven't really had too many misses especially early in recent years.

 

[TheBoss]

Our last successful draft was 2019 and our top pick dipped.

We had three bites at the cherry in 2020 and got Bowey and two battlers in the VFL. Rosman has since been given the flick.

Landed JVR and McVee in 2021. Howes can’t get a kick and seems Woju has moved ahead of him.

Jury is out on the 2022 selections.

We’ve had just as many misses as hits!

I rather target players that can contribute immediately for a flag in 2024.

 

[schmuttt]

If we can't nab a Ben King type through a trade using 3 of those picks likely inside the top 25, I reckon we just go to the draft.

Haven't really had too many misses especially early in recent years.

Why would we trade our future for Ben King? Do you have zero faith in Jefferson and JVR?

 

[Scythe]

Our last successful draft was 2019 and our top pick dipped.

We had three bites at the cherry in 2020 and got Bowey and two battlers in the VFL. Rosman has since been given the flick.

Landed JVR and McVee in 2021. Howes can’t get a kick and seems Woju has moved ahead of him.

Jury is out on the 2022 selections.

We’ve had just as many misses as hits!

I rather target players that can contribute immediately for a flag in 2024.

What you've just listed is one of the primary reasons why we need to bring draft picks in. I'm all for going hard at another flag, but you still need to top up your list with quality youth, otherwise you can end up in a situation similar to the one that West Coast is currently in.

The reality is that we're unlikely to be able to attract players in FA/trades in the way that Geelong (country kids), interstate clubs (less competition when going home), or Richmond, Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton etc ('big clubs') can, so we need to balance the age profile of the list.

For instance, if you were to assemble a team from our current 23 and unders, it would look like this:

FB: McVee - Petty - Bowey
HB: D Turner - Adams - D Smith
C: Howes - Jordon - Rivers
HF: Laurie - van Rooyen - Chandler
FF: Spargo - Jefferson - Pickett
RR: Verrall - Sparrow - Woewodin
IC: K Turner - Farris-White - Moniz-Wakefield - Sestan

Now, look 4-5 years down the track when our flag window with our current team is in all likelihood shut. How many players in that squad above do you think will be considered 'stars', or even above-average players?

I think Pickett, Rivers and JVR all have a shot to be great players, then you go a rung down and the likes of McVee, Petty, Sparrow, Chandler, Jefferson, Woewodin, Spargo and Howes are all a decent chance to be solid role-players.

But the thing is, you look at that list, and outside of Pickett, Rivers and JVR, there's nobody who you could consider to be a blue-chip talent, and even those guys are not certainties to reach that level. What's particularly alarming is that none of those guys are midfielders either (Rivers may be eventually).

If we're aiming to be up towards the top of the ladder for the next few years, the Freo pick is likely to be the highest one we have for quite some time, and IMO, we can't miss the chance to bring in an elite midfield talent – both to expand upon our current, stale mid rotations, and to prepare the club for the next era, which always arrives quicker than you think.

 

[TheBoss]

I’m not against drafting, provided it’s players that are AFL ready.

Not interested in more project players that need 5 years of seasoning.

Rather do a flag tilt and bottom out in the future than be a club that floats around in the middle of the pack years on end.

 

[Scythe]

I’m not against drafting, provided it’s players that are AFL ready.

Not interested in more project players that need 5 years of seasoning.

Rather do a flag tilt and bottom out in the future than be a club that floats around in the middle of the pack years on end.

That's fair – for mine, it's all about striking a balance. You look at some of the other competitors this year and some of the 23 and unders that are playing regular games for them:

Collingwood: Daicos, Murphy, Quaynor, McCreery, Hill
Port: Rozee, Butters, Bergman, Williams, Horne-Francis
Brisbane: Ashcroft, Bailey, Payne, Rayner, Starcevich, Coleman, Robertson

Now, obviously Daicos and Ashcroft are out of the box in terms of instant output (and were gifted via F/S), but there's plenty of players in that group (that were drafted in the range that the Freo pick will be) that could both contribute to a flag push now and over the next 10 years.

Even looking at our flag year, we had Pickett, Bowey, Rivers and Jackson in their first/second years play key roles.

I agree that I wouldn't blow a pick on a project key tall that'll take five years to come on, but a young mid that can contribute now and lead the midfield in the future? Yes please.

 

[Dancing Potato]

If we can't nab a Ben King type through a trade using 3 of those picks likely inside the top 25, I reckon we just go to the draft.

Haven't really had too many misses especially early in recent years.

What's a Ben King type and is there anyone other than Ben King that is a Ben King type?

 

[Scythe]

What's a Ben King type and is there anyone other than Ben King that is a Ben King type?

Wait until you find out he has a twin

 

[Dancing Potato]

Wait until you find out he has a twin

But is he a Ben King type? Might be more of a As King type. Or a Xam King. Or a Premix King.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

King is obviously a good player but he’s not really at the standard worth trading the farm for immediate needs when we have JVR IMO. I’d want someone like Curnow who crashes packs and marks everything and is in their peak

 

[briztoon]

Excuse the intrusion guys.

Wondering if anyone here has any idea where Kynan Brown might be bid on in the draft?

And if there's been any discussion here about potentially trading for Gold Coasts future first round pick.

 

[schmuttt]

Excuse the intrusion guys.

Wondering if anyone here has any idea where Kynan Brown might be bid on in the draft?

And if there's been any discussion here about potentially trading for Gold Coasts future first round pick.

I’m not informed enough about brown but traditionally we like to bring draft picks forward and going for the suns future first wouldn’t fit with that mould.