List Mgmt. 2023 Draft/Trade/FA thread

[Scythe]

Seems a good time to pin this:


OOC players:

• Michael Hibberd (retired)
• Deakyn Smith (delisted)
• Andy Moniz-Wakefield
• Jake Melksham (delisted, will be re-drafted as a rookie)
• Luke Dunstan (retired)
• James Jordon (signed with Sydney as a Free Agent)
• Kye Turner (delisted)

Traded out:

• James Harmes (Bulldogs)
• Brodie Grundy (Sydney)

Traded in:

• Tom Fullarton (Brisbane)
• Jack Billings (St Kilda)
• Shane McAdam (Adelaide)

Drafted:

• Caleb Windsor (Pick 7)
• Koltyn Tholstrup (Pick 13)
• Kynan Brown (Rookie)

 

[Topkent]

At that coin might Melbourne have to send something with Harmes to get that entire salary off the books? Or just get an absolute junk pick in return?

I’m staggered there is so much interest in Harmes, even more so if that’s his contract for 2024.

He's only got one year left I read this morning so they'd just spread it out over 3 years or so maybe give him a little increase

 

[schmuttt]

He's only got one year left I read this morning so they'd just spread it out over 3 years or so maybe give him a little increase

Oppo club probably says we’ll give you 600K for two years or maybe even like 750K for 3.

Lampers whats your thoughts on the Oliver stuff mate? Always enjoy reading your posts.

 

[Topkent]

Oppo club probably says we’ll give you 600K for two years or maybe even like 750K for 3.

Lampers whats your thoughts on the Oliver stuff mate? Always enjoy reading your posts.

Yeah that's my thoughts. Don't think his money is a problem at all.

 

[Topkent]

Must say this is making me wonder if we have a surprise brewing more so than just Oliver. We are freeing up alooooot of cash.
Some bullshit like we trade out Oliver and we trade all our picks to GC for King and 4

 

[BaliDemon]

Must say this is making me wonder if we have a surprise brewing more so than just Oliver. We are freeing up alooooot of cash.
Some bullshit like we trade out Oliver and we trade all our picks to GC for King and 4

When I was thinking it over today and possibly coming to grips with Oliver leaving, this is what I zeroed in on.

B.King and 4 from the Suns.
4&5 to Eagles for Reid.

If we could somehow come out of this with Reid and King …

 

[Topkent]

When I was thinking it over today and possibly coming to grips with Oliver leaving, this is what I zeroed in on.

B.King and 4 from the Suns.
4&5 to Eagles for Reid.

If we could somehow come out of this with Reid and King …

I'd have to know what we are giving away for King and 4 but yes if we can manoeuvre that I think it does improve our team overall

 

[Daemon]

If we get pick 4 and King I'll delete my BF account. Absolutely dreaming.

 

[Lampers]

Oppo club probably says we’ll give you 600K for two years or maybe even like 750K for 3.

Lampers whats your thoughts on the Oliver stuff mate? Always enjoy reading your posts.

I’ve got absolutely zero inside word and I’m probably just repeating what others have already said here and on the Oliver thread which I haven’t read closely. I reckon this linked clip pretty much sums it up. Twomey and Beveridge generally have decent mail and aren’t overly hysterical.



I’ve not seen flat out denials from Melbourne that you often see, so that suggests Melbourne are open to it at some level.

But what team wouldn’t be interested in Oliver if he was gettable for what they thought was value? It’s hardly a revelation. I’d be interested in buying a Ferrari for $5,000 too, but not for $1,000,000.

So if Melbourne are entertaining it to me that’s mature list management for AFL standards (not compared to US sports standards). You explore every option to improve your list, short term, medium term and long term. You don’t execute on every opportunity though.

Why have Lamb, Goodwin and co. formed the opinion that the list can be improved without Oliver there? Probably a combination of factors.

Playing without him for 10 weeks showed that life without Clarry is not the end of the world.

It’s widely reported that Oliver didn’t handle things particularly well at times, and culture eats strategy for breakfast. He may have done or said some things that raised concerns about Oliver’s leadership (or lack thereof) influence on the rest of the group.

I had to sack someone I hired not because their knowledge was poor, but because their attitude sucked. They were a cultural cancer and their negativity, delusional take on reality and lack of professionalism was impacting others and I couldn’t trust them. I’m not saying Oliver’s a cultural cancer, just that some players bring a lot of positivity culture wise and Oliver doesn’t jump out as one of those types of players.

The flip side of list management of what is lost if Oliver moves is what is gained. There’s salary cap space for one and that opens up opportunity. There’s lots of other ways to open up cap room if it’s needed though. The biggest lure is there is a player or players Melbourne think they could get in if Oliver moved that make Melbourne a better team. I have no idea if that’s established player structural plays like the Hogan for May deal, or it’s a bunch of top end elite youth that could set Melbourne up to be a contender for the next 3-10 years. Or a bit of both.

Finally it may just be a psychological game to send a message to Oliver and other players that even the seemingly untouchable are not off limits if they aren’t doing what’s required of them. There may be no genuine intention to entertain an Oliver trade.

In summary, there would have to be multiple things at play. I think Lamb has shown himself to be a very good operator, so I’d put my faith in him and the list management team to make a balanced decision. That’s different to saying I will like what happens or the decision (whatever it is) will be proved to be correct in hindsight.

Emotionally I didn’t like the Jack Watts or Jesse Hogan trade decisions. But in hindsight both were the right call for Melbourne and even at the time I could see why both trades had to be done.

If Lamb writes a book about this stuff in 20 years’ time I’d buy it for sure.

 

[danster168]

I’ve got absolutely zero inside word and I’m probably just repeating what others have already said here and on the Oliver thread which I haven’t read closely. I reckon this linked clip pretty much sums it up. Twomey and Beveridge generally have decent mail and aren’t overly hysterical.



I’ve not seen flat out denials from Melbourne that you often see, so that suggests Melbourne are open to it at some level.

But what team wouldn’t be interested in Oliver if he was gettable for what they thought was value? It’s hardly a revelation. I’d be interested in buying a Ferrari for $5,000 too, but not for $1,000,000.

So if Melbourne are entertaining it to me that’s mature list management for AFL standards (not compared to US sports standards). You explore every option to improve your list, short term, medium term and long term. You don’t execute on every opportunity though.

Why have Lamb, Goodwin and co. formed the opinion that the list can be improved without Oliver there? Probably a combination of factors.

Playing without him for 10 weeks showed that life without Clarry is not the end of the world.

It’s widely reported that Oliver didn’t handle things particularly well at times, and culture eats strategy for breakfast. He may have done or said some things that raised concerns about Oliver’s leadership (or lack thereof) influence on the rest of the group.

I had to sack someone I hired not because their knowledge was poor, but because their attitude sucked. They were a cultural cancer and their negativity, delusional take on reality and lack of professionalism was impacting others and I couldn’t trust them. I’m not saying Oliver’s a cultural cancer, just that some players bring a lot of positivity culture wise and Oliver doesn’t jump out as one of those types of players.

The flip side of list management of what is lost if Oliver moves is what is gained. There’s salary cap space for one and that opens up opportunity. There’s lots of other ways to open up cap room if it’s needed though. The biggest lure is there is a player or players Melbourne think they could get in if Oliver moved that make Melbourne a better team. I have no idea if that’s established player structural plays like the Hogan for May deal, or it’s a bunch of top end elite youth that could set Melbourne up to be a contender for the next 3-10 years. Or a bit of both.

Finally it may just be a psychological game to send a message to Oliver and other players that even the seemingly untouchable are not off limits if they aren’t doing what’s required of them. There may be no genuine intention to entertain an Oliver trade.

In summary, there would have to be multiple things at play. I think Lamb has shown himself to be a very good operator, so I’d put my faith in him and the list management team to make a balanced decision. That’s different to saying I will like what happens or the decision (whatever it is) will be proved to be correct in hindsight.

Emotionally I didn’t like the Jack Watts or Jesse Hogan trade decisions. But in hindsight both were the right call for Melbourne and even at the time I could see why both trades had to be done.

If Lamb writes a book about this stuff in 20 years’ time I’d buy it for sure.

It's a really good post and I agree on all fronts. I would say that why has Selwyn Griffith escaped criticism? What if his hamstring was indeed grossly mismanaged? What if Oliver consulted an outside physio (which he had done before) and they confirmed a treatment plan would get him back to 100% within 3 weeks and not 10 weeks? He'd have every right to be angry. Not to mention not having a free run of good form heading into the finals.

Regarding the Watts trade, thank gosh we did. We should've done it 3 years earlier. We got Fritsch from the Watts trade who helped win us the granny

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

I’ve got absolutely zero inside word and I’m probably just repeating what others have already said here and on the Oliver thread which I haven’t read closely. I reckon this linked clip pretty much sums it up. Twomey and Beveridge generally have decent mail and aren’t overly hysterical.



I’ve not seen flat out denials from Melbourne that you often see, so that suggests Melbourne are open to it at some level.

But what team wouldn’t be interested in Oliver if he was gettable for what they thought was value? It’s hardly a revelation. I’d be interested in buying a Ferrari for $5,000 too, but not for $1,000,000.

So if Melbourne are entertaining it to me that’s mature list management for AFL standards (not compared to US sports standards). You explore every option to improve your list, short term, medium term and long term. You don’t execute on every opportunity though.

Why have Lamb, Goodwin and co. formed the opinion that the list can be improved without Oliver there? Probably a combination of factors.

Playing without him for 10 weeks showed that life without Clarry is not the end of the world.

It’s widely reported that Oliver didn’t handle things particularly well at times, and culture eats strategy for breakfast. He may have done or said some things that raised concerns about Oliver’s leadership (or lack thereof) influence on the rest of the group.

I had to sack someone I hired not because their knowledge was poor, but because their attitude sucked. They were a cultural cancer and their negativity, delusional take on reality and lack of professionalism was impacting others and I couldn’t trust them. I’m not saying Oliver’s a cultural cancer, just that some players bring a lot of positivity culture wise and Oliver doesn’t jump out as one of those types of players.

The flip side of list management of what is lost if Oliver moves is what is gained. There’s salary cap space for one and that opens up opportunity. There’s lots of other ways to open up cap room if it’s needed though. The biggest lure is there is a player or players Melbourne think they could get in if Oliver moved that make Melbourne a better team. I have no idea if that’s established player structural plays like the Hogan for May deal, or it’s a bunch of top end elite youth that could set Melbourne up to be a contender for the next 3-10 years. Or a bit of both.

Finally it may just be a psychological game to send a message to Oliver and other players that even the seemingly untouchable are not off limits if they aren’t doing what’s required of them. There may be no genuine intention to entertain an Oliver trade.

In summary, there would have to be multiple things at play. I think Lamb has shown himself to be a very good operator, so I’d put my faith in him and the list management team to make a balanced decision. That’s different to saying I will like what happens or the decision (whatever it is) will be proved to be correct in hindsight.

Emotionally I didn’t like the Jack Watts or Jesse Hogan trade decisions. But in hindsight both were the right call for Melbourne and even at the time I could see why both trades had to be done.

If Lamb writes a book about this stuff in 20 years’ time I’d buy it for sure.

"...the silence of the Lamb is broken in this tell all book..."

 

[Bluelegs]

It's a really good post and I agree on all fronts. I would say that why has Selwyn Griffith escaped criticism? What if his hamstring was indeed grossly mismanaged? What if Oliver consulted an outside physio (which he had done before) and they confirmed a treatment plan would get him back to 100% within 3 weeks and not 10 weeks? He'd have every right to be angry. Not to mention not having a free run of good form heading into the finals.

Regarding the Watts trade, thank gosh we did. We should've done it 3 years earlier. We got Fritsch from the Watts trade who helped win us the granny

Maybe Griffith should face scrutiny but I'd need to hear Oliver's side of it first. At this stage I think it's more likely that Oliver, who has basically never had a real injury before, didn't take his recovery seriously. I can't imagine putting yourself in hospital by tattooing your own foot is helpful when trying to get back to full running capacity.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Maybe Griffith should face scrutiny but I'd need to hear Oliver's side of it first. At this stage I think it's more likely that Oliver, who has basically never had a real injury before, didn't take his recovery seriously. I can't imagine putting yourself in hospital by tattooing your own foot is helpful when trying to get back to full running capacity.

If it was Selwyn he would have been fired by now. Goodwin wouldnt put up with that shit. No way anyone would put up with gross mismanagement of a star.

 

[Bluelegs]

Must say this is making me wonder if we have a surprise brewing more so than just Oliver. We are freeing up alooooot of cash.
Some bullshit like we trade out Oliver and we trade all our picks to GC for King and 4

Reckon there's something to this in that we probably couldn't give a shit about all the second and third rounders we have and will look to move them on if it means we can get up the draft. Whether that ends up being a part of the Oliver deal or not remains to be seen could still see us using them to get Ports F1 next year as well.

 

[Bluelegs]

If it was Selwyn he would have been fired by now. Goodwin wouldnt put up with that s**t. No way anyone would put up with gross mismanagement of a star.

This is the difference between him and Burgo. Darren only experiments on the soft-tissues of fringe hacks like McAdam.

 

[Topkent]

Reckon there's something to this in that we probably couldn't give a s**t about all the second and third rounders we have and will look to move them on if it means we can get up the draft. Whether that ends up being a part of the Oliver deal or not remains to be seen could still see us using them to get Ports F1 next year as well.

Just had a thought as you qouted this aswell, thought I heard GC potentially needed another salary dump player aswell. Wonder if we can do the Geelong of this year and take the player now with all the free cap room and get something off GC

 

[Bluelegs]

Just had a thought as you qouted this aswell, thought I heard GC potentially needed another salary dump player aswell. Wonder if we can do the Geelong of this year and take the player now with all the free cap room and get something off GC

That would be insane if they are still in a massive cap hole that they would have to do that again. Their cap has been wrecked for like 7 years now.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

This is the difference between him and Burgo. Darren only experiments on the soft-tissues of fringe hacks like McAdam.

Clarry probably sitting down for a meeting with Selwyn and Goody viewing scans of his hamstring with an obvious tear: "why wouldnt you let me play Selwyn? Burgo let May play in the grand final with similar?"

 

[Topkent]

That would be insane if they are still in a massive cap hole that they would have to do that again. Their cap has been wrecked for like 7 years now.

Take it with a grain but I do remember maybe that smug looking campaigner on the couch saying there was potential for another one of those deals this year.

 

[danster168]

Maybe Griffith should face scrutiny but I'd need to hear Oliver's side of it first. At this stage I think it's more likely that Oliver, who has basically never had a real injury before, didn't take his recovery seriously. I can't imagine putting yourself in hospital by tattooing your own foot is helpful when trying to get back to full running capacity.

the tattoo story hasn't been confirmed. It's only been denied. So who knows if that's true or not.

 

[Lord Nev]

the tattoo story hasn't been confirmed. It's only been denied. So who knows if that's true or not.

It's true. Not sure if he was doing it himself, but the infected foot was from a home tattoo job.

 

[danster168]

It's true. Not sure if he was doing it himself, but the infected foot was from a home tattoo job.

It hasn't been confirmed though. It was denied. They said it was a blister and not a tattoo job. The tattoo job could just be a bigfooty rumour which wouldn't be the first time. It could also be true like you said.

 

[Lord Nev]

It hasn't been confirmed though. It was denied. They said it was a blister and not a tattoo job. The tattoo job could just be a bigfooty rumour which wouldn't be the first time. It could also be true like you said.

If you read the report around it, I think it was Tom Morris, he said he directly asked the club and they neither confirmed or denied. There was a ton of people who knew about it during the year, and if you go back and watch Goody's pressers etc he was very careful to just say 'infected foot' without going into too much detail.

 

[danster168]

If you read the report around it, I think it was Tom Morris, he said he directly asked the club and they neither confirmed or denied. There was a ton of people who knew about it during the year, and if you go back and watch Goody's pressers etc he was very careful to just say 'infected foot' without going into too much detail.

ok fair enough. well yeah that is unprofessional then.

 

[Lord Nev]

ok fair enough. well yeah that is unprofessional then.

Just dumb loose unit country boy stuff hey, but might end up being an indicator to attitude problems.

 

[stEdy]

He's a work hard, party hard kind of guy

Which is fine when you're on top of your game and one of the best players in the game. Doesn't work as well when you're out injured for 10 weeks.