List Mgmt. 2023 List Management and Trading (Part 2)

[PeterSalt]

Do you have a link to the article? I can't find anything on Google or the AFL website. Not doubting you, just trying to find the article you referenced.

From the article below:

"For instance, it would have allowed Adelaide to list one of Rory Sloane or Taylor Walker as a veteran for 2024 and opened up another spot on their primary list. The idea was designed to keep veterans in the game without sacrificing a list spot that a youngster may have taken, with the veteran’s full payments still counted in the salary cap."

Roos target pick one, Dee to go on, big Dog to stay

Check out all the latest trade news from around the League

www.afl.com.au

There's a link in the post above

 

[1970crow]

I agree - but I can’t recall any club champions being relegated to the Rookie list across the comp. Probably has happened but feels like it is unusual.

Are there obvious ones I am missing?


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Not sure, but the key to this process is eliminating the risk that you lose a player and that will hurt performance. Sloane is no Pendles, nobody would want him and the most recent thing he did was having to be scraped off the walls. Plus other clubs would need to have out specific draft hand and tight list situation.

When it happened with Greenwood I’d guess he was one of their most experienced guys and the one that they were most comfortable lauding if another club did turn his head.

 

[Sanders]

Yes, but a team”s ability to choose and how they choose to exercise the option … is diminished / increased by players being only available to specific clubs.

So pick 10 for one team can be worth a completely different amount to another team in terms of options.

In fact if you can get ahead of your own bids, pick 10 can give you more options.

It’s value varies. It’s value is not set. Not inherent.

Ah. I see what you mean now, but that’s already priced in

In one draft year the top 10 is compromised and in another it’s not. That’s already priced in, and why the value varies from year to another

It’s another why one draft class’ quality leads to a higher value than a poor draft class

 

[Sanders]

Why do you think that?
The condition that the Crows put on this has not been met.

Because people in negotiations lie

 

[Sanders]

Brockman trade sounds suss to me. Picks 42 and pick in 60’s. He’s so much better than that. WCE and Hawks have to be up to something bigger than this for this to have gone through.

He is only 20 has pace and can kick a goal. Would have thought pick in second round and nothing later than early 30s

He’s out of contract and WCE have pick 1 in the PSD.

WCE didn’t have to pay a thing

 

[Eagleboy2011]

He’s out of contract and WCE have pick 1 in the PSD.

WCE didn’t have to pay a thing

True.
I do suspect WCE have plans to take someone to the PSD. Thats why they were happy to give up 2 late picks they will not use.

 

[BunjiMac]

As the AFL clubs woke up to play him tighter so went his kicking when his game got a lot more contested.

This is exactly right.

In practice I'm sure he's kick is deadly, however under real AFL pressure the kick is as loopy as Laird.

He's just not built for AFL.

You can get away with just having an elite kick, however you need the strength or speed to get in a position to use.

He doesn't have either, so it's pointless persisting.

 

[LoBu]

Esava to Perth, would be funny as f**k.

Esava more likely to go in the ND, Port is their pick 23.

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[CryptoCrow]

Exactly the opposite - when everything is, then nothing is

Best pick from the pool available is true of every pick ever made.

It has another name: the pick

Any and every draft pick is by definition, the best of the remaining pool.

It can’t ever be anything else, which makes the “available pool” theory redundant

 

[Sanders]

True.
I do suspect WCE have plans to take someone to the PSD. Thats why they were happy to give up 2 late picks they will not use.

My guess is that they don’t, but that they’re keeping their options open in case anything drops

 

[Eagleboy2011]

My guess is that they don’t, but that they’re keeping their options open in case anything drops

Pick 1 in the PSD is powerful. It is a shame not to use it.

 

[jackster83]

As the AFL clubs woke up to play him tighter so went his kicking when his game got a lot more contested.

Doesn't help that he is pretty slow and has poor agility. Someone like Whitfield is far better at making space for himself.

 

[Crow till I die]

He’s out of contract and WCE have pick 1 in the PSD.

WCE didn’t have to pay a thing

Yes and no..they didn't have to pay if they went for him in the PSD. But by paying some junk picks, it preseeves the psd to now target another player

 

[spenze]

So just to confirm, at this stage the senior list has changed as follows:

Out: McAsey, Hately, Doedee
In: Burgess, Murray

Which leaves us at 37.

If we retain McAdam or a player comes in for him, we will still need to shift another player from the senior list to make the compulsory 3 draft picks (Murray being one). Assume we’ll shift Hamill or Bond to the rookie list?? Will also need to consolidate down to 2 live picks.

If we have had enough in our salary cap to try and get Oliver or Petty, we should delist Hamill* and Bond and use our rookie list for speculative picks like we had so much success doing before. Bond was a spec pick, hasn't come close to working out, don't waste time, we need to be stronger in list management

*I rate Hamill but I fear for his health. Everyone saw the McCartin concussion this year, it was so innocuous but it had just got to that stage where the simplest thing concussed him. I'd like to stop before Hamill does that too

 

[Crow_68]

This is exactly right.

In practice I'm sure he's kick is deadly, however under real AFL pressure the kick is as loopy as Laird.

He's just not built for AFL.

You can get away with just having an elite kick, however you need the strength or speed to get in a position to use.

He doesn't have either, so it's pointless persisting.

The comparison for me is Trent Bianco - similar attributes and deficiencies.

Collingwood did not hesitate to delist him.

 

[Sanders]

The comparison for me is Trent Bianco - similar attributes and deficiencies.

Collingwood did not hesitate to delist him.

Does he also run a chain of upmarket hair salons?

 

[baldandbroke]

This is exactly right.

In practice I'm sure he's kick is deadly, however under real AFL pressure the kick is as loopy as Laird.

He's just not built for AFL.

You can get away with just having an elite kick, however you need the strength or speed to get in a position to use.

He doesn't have either, so it's pointless persisting.

Well, he has 12 months to show us one way or the other.

I’m hopeful he gets the memo.

 

[Redline]

If we have had enough in our salary cap to try and get Oliver or Petty, we should delist Hamill* and Bond and use our rookie list for speculative picks like we had so much success doing before. Bond was a spec pick, hasn't come close to working out, don't waste time, we need to be stronger in list management

I agree on Bond but didn't we move up the order to get him? We clearly rated him.

 

[Viva la Mattner]

Good business in my opinion so far. Happy to take that to the draft.

Geelong only have 1 useable pick atm ..8 and something in 80’s pick at the moment

I’d offer them 14 and 20 for 8 (then they have 2 good picks )

Leaves us with 8 and 10

Potentially deal with NM our future first for 15 with some other picks swapped to balance getting points for Welsh next season

Draft
8- Sanders (hopefully still there)
10 - Darcy Wilson/ De Mattia
15- Throlstrup

 

[GROTTO]

Draft
8- Sanders (hopefully still there)
10 - Darcy Wilson/ De Mattia
15- Throlstrup

Glory be, tts taken me this many years, just to spell Thilthorpe correctly.

 

[baldandbroke]

Geelong only have 1 useable pick atm ..8 and something in 80’s pick at the moment

I’d offer them 14 and 20 for 8 (then they have 2 good picks )

Leaves us with 8 and 10

Potentially deal with NM our future first for 15 with some other picks swapped to balance getting points for Welsh next season

Draft
8- Sanders (hopefully still there)
10 - Darcy Wilson/ De Mattia
15- Throlstrup

Let’s assume we get a Petty deal done, for pick 10 + McAdam.

We then only have 14 and 20.

Then we wait on draft night and see if one of those + F1 gets us up the order for a targeted player.

I can’t see us ever getting into the top 5 without letting a good young player go … which is a no from me.

So maybe we have to adjust our targets to suit ?

 

[1970crow]

I agree on Bond but didn't we move up the order to get him? We clearly rated him.

Saw enough to trade into 50 to get him, not sure that suggests that we rated him particularly highly.

 

[1970crow]

Pick 1 in the PSD is powerful. It is a shame not to use it.

even if you don't use it to draft a player, it provides value in every negotiation.

 

[rabidcrow]

Geelong only have 1 useable pick atm ..8 and something in 80’s pick at the moment

I’d offer them 14 and 20 for 8 (then they have 2 good picks )

Leaves us with 8 and 10

Potentially deal with NM our future first for 15 with some other picks swapped to balance getting points for Welsh next season

Draft
8- Sanders (hopefully still there)
10 - Darcy Wilson/ De Mattia
15- Throlstrup

Sorry to say but I hate that deal for us. The first part okay but as is becoming very obviously through this trade week clubs are not valuing picks past 20-25, indicating a very weak draft pool. ( eg Geelong with Esava, Melbourne giving 27,35 to move up 3 spots)

Next year is a strong mid heavy pool - and you want to give our F1 for pick 15 this year?

Would be by far the worst pick trade in our clubs history. Pick 15 will be worth a lot more next year - and that’s if we make a prelim final!!


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[Crow_68]

Geelong only have 1 useable pick atm ..8 and something in 80’s pick at the moment

I’d offer them 14 and 20 for 8 (then they have 2 good picks )

Leaves us with 8 and 10

Potentially deal with NM our future first for 15 with some other picks swapped to balance getting points for Welsh next season

Draft
8- Sanders (hopefully still there)
10 - Darcy Wilson/ De Mattia
15- Throlstrup

If we can somehow get 8 for 14 & 20, then I’m only taking 2 picks to the draft and upgrading Murray with the ‘compulsory’ third pick.

 

[Viva la Mattner]

Sorry to say but I hate that deal for us. The first part okay but as is becoming very obviously through this trade week clubs are not valuing picks past 20-25, indicating a very weak draft pool. ( eg Geelong with Esava, Melbourne giving 27,35 to move up 3 spots)

Next year is a strong mid heavy pool - and you want to give our F1 for pick 15 this year?

Would be by far the worst pick trade in our clubs history. Pick 15 will be worth a lot more next year - and that’s if we make a prelim final!!


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If we didn’t have Welsh I’d agree but I think we’ll end up having to match a bid anyway