List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[Paracleet]

Assuming Fyfe can’t make a significant difference to the midfield next year. (He hasn’t been able to for 3 years so this is the safest assumption you could make). I think we are missing one explosive midfielder with size and pace, one elite ball user on a wing, and 1 more key forward, before we win a premiership.
Sharp might just be that winger. If so we just need the midfielder and forward.

Rather than going to the draft, I reckon there is merit in somehow finding a 21/22 year old that wants to come home. Logan mcdonald?

I think people are going to have accept our inside midfield going forward is Serong, Brayshaw, Johnson, Jackson and Erasmus and there is no way to add an 'explosive midfielder' to that group (notwithstanding I believe Jackson fits the bill) without a very very large slice of luck (star WA mid wants trade home for personal reasons / we get lucky with a late first or early second and land the next Fyfe / Stanley becomes the next Newcombe etc.). Any shuffling of talent will occur at your Brodie / O'Meara level.

Such resources as we have should be devoted to bigger gaps: I agree that is outside mid and forward. Specifically I think we need one more forward that splits contests well in their favour and/or is such a good ground ball player and positioner that they command their opponent (and thus create space for other forwards and disrupt opposition run out of defense)*. We're set for pressure forwards and high half forwards. Key forwards it'd be nice if the third one was better than Tracey with Jackson rotating forward aside Amiss, but again with scarce resources you have prioritise (star inside mids and key forwards are your most expensive trades).

 

[Wray27]

I agree. I want him spending the time preparing to be the marking target out of defense that starts in the forward line and for bursts on the stoppages. Roaming between the arcs, drifting forward if there's a miss match but his primary role will be securing field position with marking power.

And for that he needs to be able to run. They will tag him but he needs to be manned up by a biiiig opponent to stop him. One of Amiss, Treacy or Jackson is getting a smaller opponent to bully.

Great post. I, like you, think the contested mark between the arcs is one of the most important possession in AFL. It that allows a quick transition and the ability to expose zone defenses. Fyfe on a wing would allow what you’re taking about. This was suggested by Hodge last year as a way of preserving banged up afl bodies. Fyfe has the tank. He could isolate on the far side from the point kick ins. We would just need to convince the coaches that we need to abandon the long down the line kicks that we did for 95% of the time this season.

 

[malpaso]

Something to consider.

Brayshaw has his best year, we make finals.

Brayshaw has a rough year. Miss finals.

Players had it right voting him as MVP

Lol rough year and in the top 2 for disposals...

 

[Docker82]

It would be very easy to clear spots to use the main draft. Could delist and add to the rookie list any of the following:

Corbett, Taberner, Hamling, Banfield, Hughes….

There would be a very little chance of losing any of them, and I vaguely remember the afl allowing players to be moved to the rookie list without issue, though that might have been Covid times only.

Moving players to the rookie list without delisting them was a move the AFL put in to keep clubs cope with the move to smaller list sizes. It was around for one year only.

 

[malpaso]

I think people are going to have accept our inside midfield going forward is Serong, Brayshaw, Johnson, Jackson and Erasmus and there is no way to add an 'explosive midfielder' to that group (notwithstanding I believe Jackson fits the bill) without a very very large slice of luck (star WA mid wants trade home for personal reasons / we get lucky with a late first or early second and land the next Fyfe / Stanley becomes the next Newcombe etc.). Any shuffling of talent will occur at your Brodie / O'Meara level.

Such resources as we have should be devoted to bigger gaps: I agree that is outside mid and forward. Specifically I think we need one more forward that splits contests well in their favour and/or is such a good ground ball player and positioner that they command their opponent (and thus create space for other forwards and disrupt opposition run out of defense)*. We're set for pressure forwards and high half forwards. Key forwards it'd be nice if the third one was better than Tracey with Jackson rotating forward aside Amiss, but again with scarce resources you have prioritise (star inside mids and key forwards are your most expensive trades).

Young might have something to say about 'explosive midfielder'. I actually have him in the midfield right behind Serong and Brayshaw.

 

[Lach72]

Sounds like David Walls, one of the best draft recruiters in the business, especially in the late rounds like the 40-60 pick range, should just pack up and leave the dockers in that case?

We are finished with the draft for the next few years eh

this year…and not done with, but scaled back as it reflects our list age and the picks we have

 

[pK75]

Does everyone realise we don’t have to run with 36 main and 6 rookie list players? We can go with 38 and 4, it’s just cap space that makes us choose to run with 6 rookies. (First $80k for each rookie is outside the cap so having 6 rookies instead of 4 frees up $160k of space)
Thus upgrading Tracy and Banfield doesn’t preclude us for having 2 additional spots on the main list. We would head into the draft with 4 picks (Colyer, Wilson, Benning + veteran Walters) even if we pick up Sharp for Henry.
If we want to save cap space we need to delist and rookie contacted players. It’s not a must though.

 

[Dockeroo]

this year…and not done with, but scaled back as it reflects our list age and the picks we have

I would like to see walls picking at least 4 new players in the draft. Maybe 3 ND picks and one rookie draft.

Als next year we will have to cut harder. However there is plenty of candidates for delisting in 2024 looking at the contracts we have in place

 

[Carnthedockers]

Duff sums it up perfectly here.

 

[Dockeroo]

Duff sums it up perfectly here.

From 3:30 - Gossage thinks Hewitt is better than all the RS award top 5 and shows Judd esque signs

 

[MadMundy]

Anyone who watches that show and thinks Colin Young is a competent player-manager has rocks in their head. The other agents treat him with contempt.

I never heard the whole scenario where Young said the reason Lobb played so well last year was because we'd promised him he'd be traded and compensated, did that ever come out?

 

[Lach72]

I like Hewitt. he does have some power through the stoppage and he's clean but Gossage you need to get your hand off it

 

[freo_leo29]

Moving players to the rookie list without delisting them was a move the AFL put in to keep clubs cope with the move to smaller list sizes. It was around for one year only.

AFL is teasing to bring it back though

Clubs have asked for it atleast

 

[doppo]

Duff sums it up perfectly here.

Duff is truly a diamond in the cesspool of WA footy media.

 

[Paracleet]

Young might have something to say about 'explosive midfielder'. I actually have him in the midfield right behind Serong and Brayshaw.

I actually forgot Young. I won't lie and pretend it's because it fits in with my no doubt unpopular opinion: He is probably going to end up back in the backline and just rotate into the midfield when things aren't working. I just think that's a better allocation of resources for the side medium long term.

 

[Docker82]

AFL is teasing to bring it back though

Clubs have asked for it atleast

I think the issue is the AFL probably doesn’t trust clubs to not take the piss with it tbh. Would’ve thought the fact that makes said players free agents every time they’re out of contract would be enough to stop clubs putting say Caleb Serong or Nick Daicos on the Rookie List.

Tbh I think the most common sense solution would be to get rid of the Category A rookie list altogether and add the money clubs normally save from it into the cap. Players drafted in the first three rounds of the National Draft get two year deals (I’d go three for first rounders), everyone gets one year.

I’d like to see lists go back to pre-Covid levels immediately. As sh**e as West Coast were anyway no club should be as close as they were to not fielding a team this year.

 

[mr.11]

Duff sums it up perfectly here.

Love this by Duff!

 

[freo_leo29]

I think the issue is the AFL probably doesn’t trust clubs to not take the piss with it tbh. Would’ve thought the fact that makes said players free agents every time they’re out of contract would be enough to stop clubs putting say Caleb Serong or Nick Daicos on the Rookie List.

Tbh I think the most common sense solution would be to get rid of the Category A rookie list altogether and add the money clubs normally save from it into the cap. Players drafted in the first three rounds of the National Draft get two year deals (I’d go three for first rounders), everyone gets one year.

I’d like to see lists go back to pre-Covid levels immediately. As sh**e as West Coast were anyway no club should be as close as they were to not fielding a team this year.

I can't understand why lists haven't returned to those sizes already, boggles the mind

We are out of the covid hole and AFL clubs had members sacrifice a lot of money to help them through those times, the competition hasn't struggled through the times as much as they would have expected tbh

 

[SiempreFreo]

Based on the last few weeks our biggest issues are ball use out of half back and ball use inside forward fifty - that's with me mentally allocating half a goal a game more to the likes of Amiss and Treacy. We need to tighten the defensive screws again to where we know we can perform (2021) but I do think a lot of that was having a tall in Lobb down the line to push it over the boundary if he couldn't take the mark slightly more per instance that we do now.

So let us assume that Treacy continues to grow, we find more marks between the arcs, our ball movement looks slicker because of it but at worst we start our defensive work 40-50m further from goal - the natural side effect of that is we are scored against less and we are scoring more. One goal flipped per game and we would be playing finals this season - but our inability to take a mark up the line has resulted in around 3 goals per game more scored against this year.

Fix that up, by the likes of Treacy, Amiss, Jackson, Darcy, maybe Cox taking marks ahead of the ball and we will look a totally different team. We will still have fumbles and mistakes that costs goals but we are mostly there already.

This is the reason I was saying last year that Lobb is worth far more to us than an opposition team because of that structural role he plays. Amiss smashed him for scoreboard impact but was nowhere near him on the transition play involvements, marks up the line.

But they will grow their games and it will turn really, really fast.

Young might have something to say about 'explosive midfielder'. I actually have him in the midfield right behind Serong and Brayshaw.

Not sure about 'explode' exactly but watch his last 2 games in particular, where he just wrenches the ball away from opponents around the centre bounce - when they thought they were going to rocket it towards their goal. Sweet to see.

 

[Rhufus]

Not sure if this is the correct thread, couldnt find a dedicated one anyway. Id like to congratulate Nathan Wilson

14

Nathan Wilson

Age

32

Ht

185cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.1

4star

K

11.6

4star

HB

3.5

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

1.5

3star

MG

456.0

5star

D

10.7

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

1.7

1star

M

3.2

3star

T

0.8

1star

MG

271.8

4star

D

7.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

1.4

2star

T

2.4

4star

for his superb application and dedication to the Freo cause. I love this guy. The best bogan that ever joined us, who can forget his first interview when he arrived, bagging the Toast. He was courageous, especially for his size, had attitude, at his best he was one of our most outstanding rebounders, a beautiful 60m kick and a total team man. Never dropped his head when sent back to the Magoos, instead kept fit and concentrated on transferring his knowledge on to the Draper and Davies of this world. In the trenches I want Luke Ryan, Troy Cook

Troy Cook

Age

49

Ht

176cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.7

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

7.1

4star

M

3.2

3star

T

3.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

1.6

4star

and Wilson. What a shame we couldnt have honoured him for one last game against Port but nonetheless heres to a great servant of this club. Cheers Willo.

 

[nurries]

I like Hewitt. he does have some power through the stoppage and he's clean but Gossage you need to get your hand off it

He will be a Schuey replacement in time

 

[rgauci]

He will be a Schuey replacement in time

I haven’t noticed him duck, but haven’t seen too many of his games to be honest….

 

[Vintage]

Well I disagree with this but I think I’ve made that clear enough over the season here. Do you think 90 or 95% of the first Fremantle flag winning team is currently in the list? I’m not so convinced. I thi k we need more A graders. At least one, probably two as Walters will be gone soon.
I listened to Xavier Ellis in the HBG podcast last night. I think he’s a good WA antidote to the natural bias we all have when looking at our list.
He said that he thinks the best midfielder on Fremantles future flag team is not yet on their list. Reckons we lack a burst mid with speed out of stoppages.
Nick Rynne asked him to name three teams outside the 8 that could make finals next year - freo were not one of Xavier Ellis three. He’s also stated recently that he would take Sydney list a long way ahead of ours right now. It might be a bit harsh but there’s probably some merit to what he is saying.

To sum it up, I like our list, but I think it’s good not great.
There’s only two ways we can add great players

• trade them in like we did with LJ last year. Obviously expensive and can’t be done too often.
• draft them. clearly top 10 or 15 picks are more likely to become stars but it’s possibly to get quality talent late in the draft. Even if it’s a lower chance.

The more dips you have into the ND, the better chance freo has of grabbing a gem. It might be a small chance but it’s better than no chance.

The issue I have with low list turnover is that you are further reducing the (admittedly small chance) of getting another A grader from the late stages of the draft. I like Hamling for example. But he will probably play all year at peel next year. He might play 3 or 4 AFL games. He will probably be delisted in 2024.
Keeping him probably means we take 2 live picks in the ND instead of 3 because Banfield and Treacy need to be added to the main list and Sharp is also apparently coming to replace Henry.
We will likely end up passing on a pick around 42-45 in that instance, on draft night, in favour of keeping Hamling.
That could easily be a player like Koen Sanchez, Ashton Moir, De Mattia, Clay Hall etc. possibly even Mitch edwards!
they question that needs to be asked is - who is better for the Fremantle list Beth in 2024, and long term. A player such as the ones I listed above, or Joel Hamling?
There is zero percent chance joel hamling solves our lack of A grader problem in the mid-forward area of the ground. There is probably a 5% chance that pick 45 does. But 5% is a lot better than zero.

As I said before though it’s tricky for Hamling because it should have been Corbett, Banfield, Kuek, that could all have been delisted before him but they are all contracted for 2024 (lucky for them) and so Joel is the unlucky one that is sweating on his list spot.

I agree with almost all of this. And it is tough to do unbiased review of your own team..

teams on the rise next year I have Adelaide, GCS and us from the bottom 8. Not sure who the 3rd would be ahead of us? Bombers?

Agree re Hamling - it’s tough as he’s good enough to be a solid contributor, but we aren’t winning a flag in 2024 so I think it’s ok to be a bit exposed in KPD stocks next year. Def need to take minimum 3, preferably more in the draft.

we definitely need midfield improvement, wonder how we’ll look with another summer into young, LJ (will he be in there with Darcy?), Johnson and Erasmus?

and we need someone to replace Walters.

and I am a bit worried Freddy isn’t developing as well as I’d hoped, maybe he just had a down year that everyone has - development is never linear.

oh, and will noddy be a decent player? He’s got some size and speed.

 

[mr.11]

I agree with almost all of this. And it is tough to do unbiased review of your own team..

teams on the rise next year I have Adelaide, GCS and us from the bottom 8. Not sure who the 3rd would be ahead of us? Bombers?

Agree re Hamling - it’s tough as he’s good enough to be a solid contributor, but we aren’t winning a flag in 2024 so I think it’s ok to be a bit exposed in KPD stocks next year. Def need to take minimum 3, preferably more in the draft.

we definitely need midfield improvement, wonder how we’ll look with another summer into young, LJ (will he be in there with Darcy?), Johnson and Erasmus?

and we need someone to replace Walters.

and I am a bit worried Freddy isn’t developing as well as I’d hoped, maybe he just had a down year that everyone has - development is never linear.

oh, and will noddy be a decent player? He’s got some size and speed.

Freddy was injured this year it seems, maybe he wasn't right.

 

[Rhufus]

They are all idiots who don’t watch enough freo games to know any better. Jackson is way to shackled playing #1 ruck, let the unicorn run free!

I agree, I think he can be as good as the great Stephen Michael for Sowfs.