List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

[Snuffaluphagus]

Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant

 

[Taylor]

Stoppage coach please. In an infinite money world I'd like to hire Gary Ablett Jnr and Ryan Crowley

Ryan Crowley

Age

41

Ht

188cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.4

4star

K

7.7

3star

HB

6.7

4star

M

3.2

3star

T

3.2

5star

CL

1.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.8

4star

K

5.4

2star

HB

8.4

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

6.4

5star

CL

1.4

4star

to design a stoppage play/structure plan. One with a view to attacking, one with an eye on defending and building from there.

Working together, brought to you by Kleenex. The media team can make so much content with little office moment joke videos, brought to you by Crown Perth.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

People who think this list is ripe to be a flag contender have rocks in their heads quite frankly.
I’m more and more agreeing with go_the_dockers every week that passes. Worse still - we have signed up so many fringe players that will never become established AFL level players to deals beyond 2023, thus severely limiting our options this off-season. This silly idea that they are “good blokes” that deserve a spot on a list for another year too long.
We should be turning over 8 or 9 players in October but instead we have to keep some absolute dross around for another 12 months because they were contracted too long.
At no serious club would players such as Hughes, Banfield, Brodie, Switkowski, Treacy, Corbett be given 2 or in some cases 3 year deals.
The opportunity cost is so ******* detrimental. As you improve and develop you should be moving past these kind of players.
Someone wrote on this board about 3 years ago - “you will know Fremantle are a serious finals team when the likes of Acres, Hughes and Schultz are no longer getting a game because they are not good enough to be selected”
How right that poster was in hindsight.

Some people are talking about us having just 2 or 3 live picks in the upcoming ND!!!!
As if we were Collingwood or port with guns sitting in our stacked list that are down at peel and can’t get a game because we are winning everything. Lol.

We could conceivably finish 15th and take 2 live picks in the ND plus add a rookie elevation (Treacy).
You literally could not make this s**t up.
Other clubs will be openly laughing at our delusion.

Quite frankly, no, last year was not a fluke. I have seen players across all lines play enough very good games to be confident of what their ceiling is and there is enough talent on this list to be a contender. I have also seen this list play well against contenders over the last two years to know it's not that far off. It is currently less than the sum of it's parts for whatever reason.

Is it finished? No, no team is ever finished but I'll not accept it's not close and AFL history is littered with examples of teams who were bad one year, good the next (and vice versa).

 

[Taylor]

Our best forward is a nineteen year old twig from the sticks who hasn't had a preseason in his life.

To suggest we will be a better team next year purely from natural progression as their bodies develop is an understatement.

 

[GingerDocker]

Our best forward is a nineteen year old twig from the sticks who hasn't had a preseason in his life.

To suggest we will be a better team next year purely from natural progression as their bodies develop is an understatement.

Quite frankly, no, last year was not a fluke. I have seen players across all lines play enough very good games to be confident of what their ceiling is and there is enough talent on this list to be a contender. I have also seen this list play well against contenders over the last two years to know it's not that far off. It is currently less than the sum of it's parts for whatever reason.

Is it finished? No, no team is ever finished but I'll not accept it's not close and AFL history is littered with examples of teams who were bad one year, good the next (and vice versa).

Finally, some sense.

 

[Outshined]

Quite frankly, no, last year was not a fluke. I have seen players across all lines play enough very good games to be confident of what their ceiling is and there is enough talent on this list to be a contender. I have also seen this list play well against contenders over the last two years to know it's not that far off. It is currently less than the sum of it's parts for whatever reason.

Is it finished? No, no team is ever finished but I'll not accept it's not close and AFL history is littered with examples of teams who were bad one year, good the next (and vice versa).

I get that we're angry, but the assertion that the list is a complete bust is pretty reactionary.

Coaching is a bigger worry. Losing with team with over 50% of players <100 games of experience isn't unprecedented, my concern comes from the confusion that seems to permeate every line for quarters on end. It was pretty scary that yesterday it looked like we'd just cobbled together a bunch of ammos and told them to have a kick around against Carlton.

Players are only going to look as good as the "system" allows them to.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I get that we're angry, but the assertion that the list is a complete bust is pretty reactionary.

Coaching is a bigger worry. Losing with team with over 50% of players <100 games of experience isn't unprecedented, my concern comes from the confusion that seems to permeate every line for quarters on end. It was pretty scary that yesterday it looked like we'd just cobbled together a bunch of ammos and told them to have a kick around against Carlton.

Players are only going to look as good as the "system" allows them to.

To be fair to Dockeroo, he's been on this "list needs a lot of work" thing for a while (ie not reactionary), I just completely disagree.

Not quite the right thread but I'll try to tie it together on what I think all issues are:
1) Teams with young spearheads do not go far, ever
2) We constantly lose players setting back the "rebuild" every time. You lose games experience and lose games playing together, these matter
3) The current coaching staff and leadership appear to have a fundamental issue in getting the team "ready for the contest." While Ras has his deficiencies, the kid is as good at the ground ball as anyone and even he seems to have regressed a bit here. The midfield unit as a whole is just broken at the moment despite the talent in there.
4) The rebound game is beyond atrocious and I have no idea how it got this bad. We can not win a game if we dont dominate the midfield because we can not rebound the ball. What's all the more complexing is we should have the makings of an absolutely elite rebounding backline. Young is a genuine top 10 HBF, Clark is a first round pick who has shown plenty and Cox is as good a rebounding KPD as you can feasibly hope for. Hell, despite a couple on here putting Ryan in the sin bin, he's shown enough over the years to know he CAN transition the ball, he just cant at the moment. This is 100% a coaching and game plan issue.

I refuse to believe a midfield core of Brayshaw, Serong, Jackson (50/50 mid/ruck), Johnson and Darcy isnt good enough with support from Erasmus, Brodie and a kid or two we draft / pick-up over the next few years. Hell, even Henry has shown enough that no one is auto dropping him in the change threads any more.

The forwardline needs another A-grade talent to support Amiss, a b-grade genuine creative talent in Brockman wouldnt go astray either. I'll be ****ing pissed if we arent chasing Brockman and he goes to WC.

 

[Joao]

I still think we are more Melbourne 2019 instead of Carlton (insert any year)


The list is pretty much built, just try add some elite talent where we can but we have to get the team fit and playing well

I agree with this and Snuffaluphagus

There are holes and areas that could be better but no list is perfect. There is also no way that Lobb, Logue, Acres and Mundy made this much difference last year.

I don't know what the problem is but I am not panicking about the list yet. It doesn't even need to be the coaches' fault, maybe it's just part of the group's progression. There is no rule that says we must be some amount of good this year because we were last year in order for our overall progression to be positive. Let go of that assumption and suddenly the sky isn't necessarily falling. It still might be, but it doesn't have to be.

 

[Demons09]

I’m in the camp that this list is pretty talented i see the talent going to waste regarding the coaching of it though.

 

[Big Flappy]

I wonder if we stuffed up the pre season.

From memory we played less preseason matches and jl mentioned we were going to do a lot more match simulation to bed down the game plan.

 

[freo_leo29]

I wonder if we stuffed up the pre season.

From memory we played less preseason matches and jl mentioned we were going to do a lot more match simulation to bed down the game plan.

We definitely did, we aren't fit enough tbh

We went through a spurt in the middle of the season but we haven't been able to keep it up

 

[trentjac]

I wonder if we stuffed up the pre season.

From memory we played less preseason matches and jl mentioned we were going to do a lot more match simulation to bed down the game plan.

Day 1 - practice kicking down the line to a contest

Day 2 - practice watching Darcy win the tap only to watch the ball waltz out

Day 3 - instagram photo ops

Day 4 - practice waiting for the opposition to zone up before making a decision

Day 5 - practice almost tackling

 

[Mags98]

Ffs if they don't want to drop their captain just use his injury as an excuse.

But port weren't scared to drop their captain in favour of better players, and look where they are now.

I'm not convinced Hamling would do a better job but at this point it wouldn't hurt to try.

id drop pearce but not to bring in hamling, weve seen ryan capable of playing KPD, his best year in fact was playing there when logue pearce were injured all year

 

[Footskill]

Think our forwards can kick a winning score if our mids win clearances and defense move the ball faster into attack..

 

[Mags98]

To be fair to Dockeroo, he's been on this "list needs a lot of work" thing for a while (ie not reactionary), I just completely disagree.

Not quite the right thread but I'll try to tie it together on what I think all issues are:
1) Teams with young spearheads do not go far, ever
2) We constantly lose players setting back the "rebuild" every time. You lose games experience and lose games playing together, these matter
3) The current coaching staff and leadership appear to have a fundamental issue in getting the team "ready for the contest." While Ras has his deficiencies, the kid is as good at the ground ball as anyone and even he seems to have regressed a bit here. The midfield unit as a whole is just broken at the moment despite the talent in there.
4) The rebound game is beyond atrocious and I have no idea how it got this bad. We can not win a game if we dont dominate the midfield because we can not rebound the ball. What's all the more complexing is we should have the makings of an absolutely elite rebounding backline. Young is a genuine top 10 HBF, Clark is a first round pick who has shown plenty and Cox is as good a rebounding KPD as you can feasibly hope for. Hell, despite a couple on here putting Ryan in the sin bin, he's shown enough over the years to know he CAN transition the ball, he just cant at the moment. This is 100% a coaching and game plan issue.

I refuse to believe a midfield core of Brayshaw, Serong, Jackson (50/50 mid/ruck), Johnson and Darcy isnt good enough with support from Erasmus, Brodie and a kid or two we draft / pick-up over the next few years. Hell, even Henry has shown enough that no one is auto dropping him in the change threads any more.

The forwardline needs another A-grade talent to support Amiss, a b-grade genuine creative talent in Brockman wouldnt go astray either. I'll be ******* pissed if we arent chasing Brockman and he goes to WC.

our defence is/should be good enough for the rebound game imo, its just when we take the intercept were clearly not confident in either pulling off the tough kicks or confident in the next man winning that contest.

Taylor mentions it a lot but weve lost massively in the marks between the arcs. weve gone from tabs, lobb, acres even logue as the targets, to now treacy, amiss, henry, jackson. clearly the latter is hopefully more talented but theyve not put together 30 games with the team yet and are physically not there yet. we cant transition the ball because we lose that next contest 90% of the time

 

[AstonSouffle]

I wonder if we stuffed up the pre season.

From memory we played less preseason matches and jl mentioned we were going to do a lot more match simulation to bed down the game plan.

Ryan kick to Darcy gameplan, and when it comes off they hope their opposition didn't notice the first 10 times they did it.

 

[FDH16]

Pearce has conceded the most goals of any key defender in the afl.

Is this correct, or just a made up stat, if so he needs to be trialed in front of the ball - we seriously lack a lead up target.

Pearce not being able defend, and not have the ability to provide any offensive drive from the back half makes him redundant at full back, surely?

Again, I am firmly in the camp of Treacy running through FB, Pearce as a lead up CHF. Give us a target, give us a contest we so desparately need if we maintain this kicking gameplan.

 

[AFL Nut]

Think our forwards can kick a winning score if our mids win clearances and defense move the ball faster into attack..

Spot on they can, but until we move it faster and use the guy who has worked to space to recieve, but no we dont use him and go back down the same line to a scrum that our young forwards have to try and compete in then they get called out for not getting it. Its actually infuriating to watch football is a simple game selfish players make it hard.

 

[Mags98]

Spot on they can, but until we move it faster and use the guy who has worked to space to recieve, but no we dont use him and go back down the same line to a scrum that our young forwards have to try and compete in then they get called out for not getting it. Its actually infuriating to watch football is a simple game selfish players make it hard.

its interesting and probs wrong, but i really never see our players manage to take an easy uncontested lead up mark during transition, yet it happens so easily for the opposition, they got 2-3m of space while our boys have their oppo on them like glue and we inevitably lose that contest and ball goes back the other way

whether thats a result of structure, physicality, nous, or effort, i dont know

 

[AFL Nut]

its interesting and probs wrong, but i really never see our players manage to take an easy uncontested lead up mark during transition, yet it happens so easily for the opposition, they got 2-3m of space while our boys have their oppo on them like glue and we inevitably lose that contest and ball goes back the other way

whether thats a result of structure, physicality, nous, or effort, i dont know

Its because we buggerise around with it to long as Hase said the player up the ground has already antispated and starting to move only for us to go back the other way. Henry and Erasmus are shockers for it.

 

[Mags98]

Its because we buggerise around with it to long as Hase said the player up the ground has already antispated and starting to move only for us to go back the other way. Henry and Erasmus are shockers for it.

yeah possibly, im interstate now so dont get to see games live to understand whats further up the ground, but i swear even when we have made a quick kick its to a bloke with a defender right up his arse

its never easy for us

 

[GingerDocker]

Amiss makes plenty of those sorts of leads, with a metre or two on his opposition, but we can't find a way to get the ball to him.

I'm not sure if that's a lack of vision, apprehension with kicking skills, fatigue or something else, but it must be infuriating for the young fella.

 

[Taylor]

its interesting and probs wrong, but i really never see our players manage to take an easy uncontested lead up mark during transition, yet it happens so easily for the opposition, they got 2-3m of space while our boys have their oppo on them like glue and we inevitably lose that contest and ball goes back the other way

whether thats a result of structure, physicality, nous, or effort, i dont know

It's why mature bodies with preseasons under the belt do well in long AFL seasons.

They can put that work rate out for longer.

It's also why travel is a bitch.

 

[Mags98]

It's why mature bodies with preseasons under the belt do well in long AFL seasons.

They can put that work rate out for longer.

It's also why travel is a bitch.

yeah theres so many factors to putting in good performances, travel, recovery, diet, mindset etc

im sure its underestimated by a lot on here, trying to nail that down over a large group, and an inexperienced one at that is a fair feat

 

[pK75]

Ffs if they don't want to drop their captain just use his injury as an excuse.

But port weren't scared to drop their captain in favour of better players, and look where they are now.

I'm not convinced Hamling would do a better job but at this point it wouldn't hurt to try.

I’d play Hamling alongside Pearce and Cox, we need a third tall who can lock down a KPF, drop Hughes, who tries hard but can’t match up on the Curnow’s of the league. Allow Cox to be the floating defender.

 

[Nodgey]

This is a list management issue, so I'm posting here instead of the vent thread. (It was a close call though....)

The additions of Corbett and Wagner (and Emmett and Reidy to a lesser extent) are poor. As experienced mature players, I expected Corbett to play most games and Wagner to slot into the best 22. That was his selling point - that he was too good for VFL. But it appears their previous clubs were correct in moving them on because they're just not up to it. Emmett and Reidy are younger, but they're not teenagers either so I expected them to have some sort of impact. If Reidy couldn't get a game when Darcy was injured then I don't think he never will.