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List Mgmt. 2023 List Management thread

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Mod notice after Mr Bob did a lot of annoying work in moving days of posts out of here. As we are heading into offseason, this thread is for 2023 list management only. Getting upset on previous trades can be taken to the vent thread. Lets keep this thread on track in the part of the year it's actually relevant
 
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blue shark said:
Chapman missing is a huge factor, Wagner starting to show why he was drafted.
The kicking out, slow decisive ball movement, is it players or coaching?
Whose idea is it to let Ryan play the half back role?
Click to expand...

Probably a big piece is coaching.

I recall a comment by Serong when he said something along the lines of ‘When Ryab took that kick on through the middle…’ and it gave them confidence as a team. I mean WTF. I remember thinking why does it take one person to do that. Why isn’t the team collectively thinking, let’s take on riskier kicks.

I can’t recall the opposition but it was one of a few comments that just made me think WTF.

It seems coaching is an issue, but also on field leadership.

Lots of growth in those departments I hope, we do have the potential.
 
The growth we most need is in the coach. He needs to assess why we were so poorly prepared for the start of this season, such that the players lost so much confidence.

I see it as a combination of (faulty) game plan, misguided selection and failure to motivate the players effectively. All these can be fixed and this time around I'll not be caring much about the trading and drafting season and instead waiting until Round 1.
 
greatgatsby said:
The growth we most need is in the coach. He needs to assess why we were so poorly prepared for the start of this season, such that the players lost so much confidence.

I see it as a combination of (faulty) game plan, misguided selection and failure to motivate the players effectively. All these can be fixed and this time around I'll not be caring much about the trading and drafting season and instead waiting until Round 1.
Click to expand...
One thing that stands out in finals is
Physicality.
Missed tackles, things that can be addressed with coaching.
Speed isn’t a problem overall, but contested bulls, footy smarts allows the outside players to play their game.
If we were playing touch footy we would be top 4, Pressure footy makes
us look slow and indecisive.
Maybe turn the sprinklers on now and again at Cockburn, and bring some
sparring gear.
 
blue shark said:
Chapman missing is a huge factor, Wagner starting to show why he was drafted.
The kicking out, slow decisive ball movement, is it players or coaching?
Whose idea is it to let Ryan play the half back role?
Click to expand...
Chappy is one of the slowest decision makers in the team


Chappy being injured has done wonders for his reputation, people are thinking his potential more than what he actually offers
 

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freo_leo29 said:
Chappy is one of the slowest decision makers in the team


Chappy being injured has done wonders for his reputation, people are thinking his potential more than what he actually offers
Click to expand...
I'm instantly reminded of that time in the Western Derby, where the guy was strolling around with ball in hand down at full back. With absolutely zero awareness of what was going on around him only to then be tackled from behind for a holding the ball in the goal square.
 
King Tenz said:
I'm instantly reminded of that time in the Western Derby, where the guy was strolling around with ball in hand down at full back. With absolutely zero awareness of what was going on around him only to then be tackled from behind for a holding the ball in the goal square.
Click to expand...
He is a massive part of our slow switching across the half back line and wing (when the team is pushed up to lock it in our forward line)

He rarely bites off a tough kick to take it on

He is a good defender though, just doesn't add much to our attack imo
 
greatgatsby said:
The growth we most need is in the coach. He needs to assess why we were so poorly prepared for the start of this season, such that the players lost so much confidence.

I see it as a combination of (faulty) game plan, misguided selection and failure to motivate the players effectively. All these can be fixed and this time around I'll not be caring much about the trading and drafting season and instead waiting until Round 1.
Click to expand...
I find it quite hard externally to work out what percentage is game plan, what part is form/mental and what part is cohesion.
Some players just look rubbish when other parts of the game are off, while others can shine regardless (or even because of).

Agreed though the coaching team has to take a big part of the responsibility for it, but they also have to target the right things.

I'm pretty keen for some stability in the team, shame Henry is going for that reason.
 
freo_leo29 said:
He is a massive part of our slow switching across the half back line and wing (when the team is pushed up to lock it in our forward line)

He rarely bites off a tough kick to take it on

He is a good defender though, just doesn't add much to our attack imo
Click to expand...

I don’t necessarily agree with this but lets say it was true.

this is game plan and coaching.

”heath take the kick…. Heath I told you to take the kick…is there something you’re not understanding? Heath back to Peel..you need to take the kick”

the fact (?) that he doesn’t take the kick suggests it’s not coached
 
freo_leo29 said:
He is a massive part of our slow switching across the half back line and wing (when the team is pushed up to lock it in our forward line)

He rarely bites off a tough kick to take it on

He is a good defender though, just doesn't add much to our attack imo
Click to expand...
You guys are pretty harsh on a guy who has played what 26 games?
Maybe we can agree that his ceiling
could be higher?
 
I hesitate to blow smoke up Postecoglou’s arse after such a small sample, but he’s a great example of a complete change of tactics.
“we play attacking football and we play the ball forward…we don't go sideways or backwards as a general rule. We want to score goals.”
 
Lach72 said:
I don’t necessarily agree with this but lets say it was true.

this is game plan and coaching.

”heath take the kick…. Heath I told you to take the kick…is there something you’re not understanding? Heath back to Peel..you need to take the kick”

the fact (?) that he doesn’t take the kick suggests it’s not coached
Click to expand...
Then why does Young take the kick? Wagner tries it, Henry will always give it a go


I blame the player


I still think Chapman can be a good player, probably elsewhere on the field or possibly even as an undersized KPD in the mould of Nathan Murphy
 
freo_leo29 said:
Then why does Young take the kick? Wagner tries it, Henry will always give it a go


I blame the player


I still think Chapman can be a good player, probably elsewhere on the field or possibly even as an undersized KPD in the mould of Nathan Murphy
Click to expand...
Chappy gives me Pearce vibes. Bloke is injury prone
 

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freo1997 said:
Injury riddled and not athletic enough for the modern game. Rather spend dough on someone else.

This is the crossroads Eagles had with Dean Cox. They should of cashed out when they had big offers.

Looks like we’re keeping Darcy anyway so it is what it is. I’m ok with it but he has no durability so I hope the contract isn’t long and expensive.
Click to expand...
Are you talking about Darcy? He’s missed 12 games in the past four seasons. Six of those were the six most recent games we’ve played due to one injury. That doesn’t scream injury riddled and non-durable to me.

2020 - 15 games out of a possible 17
2021 - 21 games out of a possible 22
2022 - 21 games out of a possible 22
2023 - 15 games out of a possible 23
 
Lach72 said:
I hesitate to blow smoke up Postecoglou’s arse after such a small sample, but he’s a great example of a complete change of tactics.
“we play attacking football and we play the ball forward…we don't go sideways or backwards as a general rule. We want to score goals.”
Click to expand...
That philosophy would have been pretty risky considering where our talent has been spread around the ground up until maybe this season. If you want to play attacking shoot out footy you need a better than average forward line. And it’s still not guaranteed to work. Adelaide scored more points than any other team this season and didn’t even make finals.

I just think JL has tried to play to our strengths and the players aren’t yet mature enough to know when to flip the switch. Would also explain why we struggle to change mid-quarter and generally need a new message at QT, HT, 3QT etc to get moving.
 

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freo_leo29 said:
Just spitting facts here

His reputation far outweighs what he brings to the table as of right now
Click to expand...
He hasn't brought anything to the table so how can he have a reputation? I think you want to use 'potential' with a player such as Chapman at this early stage of his career.
Also, nobody is quite sure what his best position is.
 
Some interesting decisions to be made by the AFL over the next few weeks with some potentially big ripples.
Whether North Melbourne are given access to Ryley Sanders (top ten pick) as an academy player would chew up their pick #16 (Port's first).
It's possible that the AFL remove the NGA restrictions for everyone to facilitate that, but I doubt it. It would make Mitch Edwards suddenly someone to plan around, changing the calculations around a player like Collard from the WC NGA.
It's also possible that they just let North prelist him prior to the draft meaning they don't need to spend any points to get him at all.

But I expect North will look to get better value out of that pick #16.
 
Lach72 said:
I hesitate to blow smoke up Postecoglou’s arse after such a small sample, but he’s a great example of a complete change of tactics.
“we play attacking football and we play the ball forward…we don't go sideways or backwards as a general rule. We want to score goals.”
Click to expand...
Until he verses some of the teams actually in contention for the top 5-6 places "sorry united you won't make it".

That kinda of football will get him destroyed by City Liverpool Arsenal and will be a good match against Brighton, Hammers, Aston Villa and Newcastle.. so far his sample size is the SPFL and Burnley Bournemouth United and Brentford.

It's all good to do it against small teams but I don't think they can't adapt to a park the bus. 10 men behind the ball gameplay whe they only get 35% possession and no Harry Kane to hold the ball up to release pressure.
 
malpaso said:
He hasn't brought anything to the table so how can he have a reputation? I think you want to use 'potential' with a player such as Chapman at this early stage of his career.
Also, nobody is quite sure what his best position is.
Click to expand...

I think Chapmans first season was really interesting. He made some howlers but showed glimpses of exceptional talent & a great football brain.
In fact what I remember from that season was how often he’d look to go corridor & bite of the risky kick & how much that straightened us up & to fast counter attack.
I don’t know what happened in that off season but when I went down to preseason training this year he looked all over the place. Making really basic skills errors & being really dark on himself.
What little footy he did play this year he looked bereft of confidence & certainly not displaying the easy confidence of his first year.
I think he’s got immense potential if he can get fit again & stay on the field regularly. Injuries are his biggest problem so far.
 
Wabjub said:
Until he verses some of the teams actually in contention for the top 5-6 places "sorry united you won't make it".

That kinda of football will get him destroyed by City Liverpool Arsenal and will be a good match against Brighton, Hammers, Aston Villa and Newcastle.. so far his sample size is the SPFL and Burnley Bournemouth United and Brentford.

It's all good to do it against small teams but I don't think they can't adapt to a park the bus. 10 men behind the ball gameplay whe they only get 35% possession and no Harry Kane to hold the ball up to release pressure.
Click to expand...
He should have signed Evan Ferguson with the Kane money and they would now have the best young number nine in world football developing and be able to sell him to city or Madrid in a few years for £200 million. Would have complemented their style nicely too.
Ship has sailed now though they wouldn’t get near him
 

AFL 2023: Will Brodie’s run at Fremantle looks to have come to an end​

It’s hard to see a clear path back into Fremantle’s best 22 next season for Will Brodie. And that’s why the midfielder should be entertaining a trade, writes ELIZA REILLY.

4 min read
September 10, 2023 - 8:00AM
[PLAYERCARD]Will Brodie[/PLAYERCARD] may be looking for a new home in 2024. Picture: Paul Kane/Getty Images

Will Brodie may be looking for a new home in 2024. Picture: Paul Kane/Getty Images

When there’s a Will, there’s a way.
But if you’re of the Brodie variety, it’s hard to see a clear path back into Fremantle’s best 22 next season. And that’s why Will Brodie should be entertaining a trade if a suitor emerges this off-season.

When Brodie was thrown up in trade discussions with Fremantle towards the end of 2021, he wasn’t even the selling point of the eventual deal. That was pick 19, which the Dockers turned into Matthew Johnson. Brodie was both the steak knives and a salary cap dump.
Brodie took less than a month to prove he was a worthy addition to Fremantle’s finals-bound set of cutlery. In round four against Greater Western Sydney, he had a career-high 37 disposals. He matched it a month later against North Melbourne in round eight. And playing every game in 2022, including Fremantle’s two finals, Brodie averaged a career-high 26.8 touches, 5.7 clearances and 5.3 tackles.
His resurgence was aided by a gift from the injury gods. Two-time Brownlow medallist Nat Fyfe played just seven games. In that time, Brodie elevated himself from backup plan to one of the recruits of the year. He didn’t receive the attention or accolades of Caleb Serong or Andrew Brayshaw. But his big body, clean hands and contested calibre were crucial to Fremantle’s midfield mix.

From the outside looking in, it appeared as though the top-10 pick turned his career around overnight. But in reality, it was a result of Brodie getting consistently cut down across the course of his time at the Suns. That’s what resilience does.
Now, history is repeating itself.
Opportunities at Brodie’s former club Gold Coast were rare and rarely made the most of. Across 25 games in four seasons at the Suns, Brodie tasted victory just three times.
The meteoric rise of Touk Miller coupled with the desire to develop Noah Anderson and Matt Rowell sent Brodie to the bottom of the pecking order. And then senior coach Stuart Dew didn’t believe he had it in him to overtake them.
“We experimented with Will to try and play a different role and get some flexibility,” Dew said back in 2021. “However, Matt Rowell’s best footy is on the inside, Touk Miller’s best footy is on the inside…and I think everyone can see where Noah is going.
“It wasn’t about, could he play AFL footy? It was ultimately about, could he get in front of Miller, Rowell and Anderson?”
Fremantle are asking the same question but now it’s a matter of Brodie overtaking Serong, Brayshaw, Fyfe, Hayden Young, Jaeger O’Meara, Matthew Johnson and Neil Erasmus.
Serong and Brayshaw are the benchmark. Dockers coach Justin Longmuir has indicated that Fyfe, if fully fit, will return to a full-time midfield role. Young’s future lies in the midfield after the defender switched roles late in the season. O’Meara essentially took Brodie’s place and the Dockers haven’t done enough to fit that pair into the same midfield. And Fremantle must find a way to keep getting games into Johnson and Erasmus.
That leaves Brodie at the crossroads.

The 25-year-old played just five senior games in 2023, including one matchwinning role as Fremantle’s tactical sub against the Gold Coast. He was dropped after round seven and didn’t play again, not even when the Dockers’ midfield was being badly bullied and beaten during the middle of the year.
An ankle injury slowed him down for a month. Since returning, Brodie has averaged 28.6 disposals in his last five games at Peel Thunder.
“I think the midfield the last three weeks in particular has been really strong and really consistent through there,” Longmuir said in August. “He needs to play at a high level and wait for an opportunity.”
There’s a school of thought that Brodie isn’t involved enough in scoring chains. But he’s too good to be playing in the WAFL.
There’s also the added complexity of his contract. Brodie signed a three-year extension that ties him to Fremantle until 2026 in March. It seemed an obvious decision at the time. Now in September, it’s odd and perplexing.
The limitation on guys like Brodie is AFL clubs can only really afford to field two of them on any given day. They lack that speed and spread from the contest that the best midfielders in the competition boast. They’re also not overly flexible. But they make up for it by nailing the hard stuff.
If any one of Fremantle’s midfielders went down with an injury, Brodie could comfortably hold his own at AFL level. And therein lies the problem. There are several teams out there who could do with a Will Brodie round one next season.
It all hinges on what Brodie desires from whatever is left of his AFL career. Fremantle is on the verge of AFL success and he’s one or two injuries away from being part of it. Depth is important. And Brodie owes the Dockers something for aiding his career reinvigoration.
Ultimately, Brodie is a proven AFL footballer and a trade may be the best thing for him given Fremantle’s new-found oversupply of midfielders.
 
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