Play Nice 2024 Non AFL Crowds/Ratings and other Industry thread

[The Educator]

Boxing clever: How Tim Tszyu and a ticket deal will tempt US fans to double-header

The NRL has found a novel way to boost ticket sales for the historic season opener in Las Vegas.

www.watoday.com.au

"Critics of the Vegas venture claim it’s a waste of money, that the funds should instead be invested in grassroots sport. However, given the total cost of heading to America is likely to be less than $2 million, NRL officials feel it’s a free throw at the stumps."

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/nrl-boss-peter-vlandys-reveals-420m-expansion-war-chest-target-to-play-in-us-for-next-two-decades/news-story/1b19b2d07abf6a9ed9cc2d472e501ddf

"V’landys arrived in Vegas on Tuesday (AEDT). There is a view the NRL is wasting time and money by going to the US, but it is understood the Vegas promotion is costing the code less than $2 million."

So it's a tad less than $2 million loss on the event.

Which doesn't factor in your point about opportunity cost.

Certainly completely delusional that there will ever be surplus funds out of this to invest back into NSW and QLD grassroots.

I know it is Sunday arvo but the CH9 ratings were 40K above last seasons opener?

Do people really think that rugby league land is going to be dialed up to 15 again next year?


Reading stuff like this as an indictor of unhinged they have got for having 30K (let's be honest here) Australians at a novelty double header suggests that there is a pretty large come down on its way

‘Fast, brutal, brilliant’: NRL’s Las Vegas gamble comes up trumps

Rugby league may not be the world game - yet - but the NRL’s showcase event in Las Vegas has proven it is capable of thriving on a global stage.

www.theguardian.com

 

[The Educator]

The NRL’s venture into Las Vegas turned into a television ratings bonanza for Fox League with the season-opening Sea Eagles-Rabbitohs and Roosters-Broncos matches at Allegiant Stadium the most-watched games on Fox League to date.

South Sydney’s 36-24 win over Manly pulled in a remarkable 838,000 viewers on TV screens and on Fox Sports’ streaming service Kayo.

Fox League had 786,000 people tune into the Roosters and Broncos clash compared to Channel 9’s 784,000 viewers on Sunday night.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/las-vegas-double-header-delivers-alltime-nrl-tv-ratings-winner/news-story/d14dc0a80b313b4dbf22b6bdf87a7b5d

Does that article include fox / kayo reach figures as well?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Which doesn't factor in your point about opportunity cost.

Certainly completely delusional that there will ever be surplus funds out of this to invest back into NSW and QLD grassroots.

I know it is Sunday arvo but the CH9 ratings were 40K above last seasons opener?

Do people really think that rugby league land is going to be dialed up to 15 again next year?


Reading stuff like this as an indictor of unhinged they have got for having 30K (let's be honest here) Australians at a novelty double header suggests that there is a pretty large come down on its way

‘Fast, brutal, brilliant’: NRL’s Las Vegas gamble comes up trumps

Rugby league may not be the world game - yet - but the NRL’s showcase event in Las Vegas has proven it is capable of thriving on a global stage.

www.theguardian.com

Best comparison is AFL in Wellington. Three years, crowds of 22k dropping to 13k dropping to 12k before they pulled out.

Year one was a novelty, but a success. The crowd of 22k was bigger than their planned 20k, there was some local interest, they extended the deal to make it a five-year deal and there was some talk of Saints maybe even playing a second game there. On a smaller scale but similar principles, it reads very similar to this NRL game in terms of the event itself exceeding crowd expectations and being a "success".

Lo and behold the next two years dropped off with only 13k and 12k going and they cut short the five years two years early.

Difference is the Saints actually made money net over the course of the three years and apart from some tokenistic statements about Saints branding/involvement with the limited footy presence in NZ there wasn't these ridiculous claims about having a revenue-generating presence in NZ.

Everyone knew it was a event/tourism/novelty scenario, but everyone was happy with that, including the Saints who turned a loss-making game at Docklands into several hundreds of thousands of dollars in NZ. And they pulled the plug at the appropriate time.

 

[Cmarsh]

Best comparison is AFL in Wellington. Three years, crowds of 22k dropping to 13k dropping to 12k before they pulled out.

Year one was a novelty, but a success. The crowd of 22k was bigger than their planned 20k, there was some local interest, they extended the deal to make it a five-year deal and there was some talk of Saints maybe even playing a second game there. On a smaller scale but similar principles, it reads very similar to this NRL game in terms of the event itself exceeding crowd expectations and being a "success".

Lo and behold the next two years dropped off with only 13k and 12k going and they cut short the five years two years early.

Difference is the Saints actually made money net over the course of the three years and apart from some tokenistic statements about Saints branding/involvement with the limited footy presence in NZ there wasn't these ridiculous claims about having a revenue-generating presence in NZ.

Everyone knew it was a event/tourism/novelty scenario, but everyone was happy with that, including the Saints who turned a loss-making game at Docklands into several hundreds of thousands of dollars in NZ. And they pulled the plug at the appropriate time.

Only difference is you have four new teams each year going to Vegas and hence four new fan bases each year wanting to travel for their Vegas experience. And you cant compare Wellington with Las Vegas as a tourist attraction.

 

[The Educator]

Best comparison is AFL in Wellington. Three years, crowds of 22k dropping to 13k dropping to 12k before they pulled out.

Year one was a novelty, but a success. The crowd of 22k was bigger than their planned 20k, there was some local interest, they extended the deal to make it a five-year deal and there was some talk of Saints maybe even playing a second game there. On a smaller scale but similar principles, it reads very similar to this NRL game in terms of the event itself exceeding crowd expectations and being a "success".

Lo and behold the next two years dropped off with only 13k and 12k going and they cut short the five years two years early.

Difference is the Saints actually made money net over the course of the three years and apart from some tokenistic statements about Saints branding/involvement with the limited footy presence in NZ there wasn't these ridiculous claims about having a revenue-generating presence in NZ.

Everyone knew it was a event/tourism/novelty scenario, but everyone was happy with that, including the Saints who turned a loss-making game at Docklands into several hundreds of thousands of dollars in NZ. And they pulled the plug at the appropriate time.

Pretty sure the plug was pulled after Wellington council pulled their support (as less Aussies were coming over than anticipated).

But the key difference is in the "opportunity cost". A lower drawing docklands game versus season launching double header. (likewise the Port versus St Kilda / Gold Coast games in China.

 

[The Educator]

Only difference is you have four new teams each year going to Vegas and hence four new fan bases each year wanting to travel for their Vegas experience. And you cant compare Wellington with Las Vegas as a tourist attraction.

...but you can compare Broncos with every other league supporter base.

Apparently Magic Round pulls 30K people in total into Brisbane (including intrastate) for all 15 non Brisbane NRL clubs

I just don't think they will get the same numbers from Australia year on year and they will get less Aussie expats from other parts of the North America and less Americans if they don't want to spend increasing amounts on marketing.

 

[Sector 7G]

Which doesn't factor in your point about opportunity cost.

Certainly completely delusional that there will ever be surplus funds out of this to invest back into NSW and QLD grassroots.

I know it is Sunday arvo but the CH9 ratings were 40K above last seasons opener?

Do people really think that rugby league land is going to be dialed up to 15 again next year?


Reading stuff like this as an indictor of unhinged they have got for having 30K (let's be honest here) Australians at a novelty double header suggests that there is a pretty large come down on its way

‘Fast, brutal, brilliant’: NRL’s Las Vegas gamble comes up trumps

Rugby league may not be the world game - yet - but the NRL’s showcase event in Las Vegas has proven it is capable of thriving on a global stage.

www.theguardian.com

"And boy was there some sizzle. This was no normal NRL match. Two members of Human Nature performed the Australian anthem."

Can't think of a hotter act on the planet than half of Human Nature. Well played Little Pete

 

[The Educator]

"And boy was there some sizzle. This was no normal NRL match. Two members of Human Nature performed the Australian anthem."

Can't think of a hotter act on the planet than half of Human Nature. Well played Little Pete

That was the clincher.....there was some other "not a hint of irony" moments throughout though....

"Long regarded as the gold standard of promoting their own importance, the AFL will be looking on in envy. "

"The momentum won’t end after a stunning weekend that will long be remembered as one of the most important in the history of the code. For once, the NRL has proven itself capable of delivering. For once, the clubs are united. Rugby league may not be the world game - yet - but it has proven itself capable of thriving on a global stage."

 

[sprucemoooose]

Where is millions of US-based dollars - if any from betting companies, end consumers, media companies, whatever - going to come from when a bog-standard Thursday Night game is being broadcast at 4am on a Friday Morning in the US?

Nowhere. You are spot on.

If the NRL was actually serious about attempting to build a US audience the games would have been on at 7pm-8pm Eastern/NY time instead of 9pm Eastern.

Wouldn't have made much of a difference but maximizing sport ratings is a pretty simple concept - east coast prime time, not west coast prime time.

I think people saying the event being a "success" are missing the point. What the NRL set out to achieve, correctly was a success and probably overachieved given that the crowd was probably bigger than they expected when announcing it last year (unabashed media promotion notwithstanding, which clearly would have convinced a few more Australians to make the trip).

But what was the point? The venture was still loss-making, the very facts about nobody in the US caring about the NRL will continue into the future, and the realities of how gambling revenue generated and the time zones will also continue into the future.

One thing that won't be mentioned in any of the articles about the success of these games is that they were practically giving away tix to the general public. For the last few months there were 2 for 1 tix for $20+fees (so probably $25 all in) available. Meanwhile you aren't getting one ticket.

That's dirt cheap by US standards. You can't get one ticket to the Vegas Golden Knights, which has 41 home games a year before playoffs, below $40. I don't think you could get into a UNLV basketball game (college ball) for $10 a ticket.

 

[The Educator]

The other thing about timezones is the normal NRL season weekend structure includes an earliest start of a 3pm kick off on Saturday and 4pm on Sunday. These are starting at 10pm and 11pm on Friday and Saturday on the West Coast for most of the year.

It is not a recipe for sustained viewership that commands a cent for TV rights.

Need to find all the problem gamblers who can't even go to sleep without punting AND are willing to punt pn a sport they don't know anything about AND be able to convince some wagering company to give you money for it.

Good luck with that

 

[Cmarsh]

The other thing about timezones is the normal NRL season weekend structure includes an earliest start of a 3pm kick off on Saturday and 4pm on Sunday. These are starting at 10pm and 11pm on Friday and Saturday on the West Coast for most of the year.

It is not a recipe for sustained viewership that commands a cent for TV rights.

Need to find all the problem gamblers who can't even go to sleep without punting AND are willing to punt pn a sport they don't know anything about AND be able to convince some wagering company to give you money for it.

Good luck with that

Your mention of the plan for more gambling is what I believe is the most unashamed and insidious part of the whole venture. It's where the media is most complicit in it's lack of criticism and effectively glosses over it by publishing gushing articles like the one the Guardian did.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

That's dirt cheap by US standards. You can't get one ticket to the Vegas Golden Knights, which has 41 home games a year before playoffs, below $40. I don't think you could get into a UNLV basketball game (college ball) for $10 a ticket.

This is correct - and these are the cheapest seats!

What's interesting too is that some of the Americans that attended and spoke to the media stated that they were clearly Las Vegas Raiders fans who already had a familiarity with the stadium and therefore may have been aware of the event through that method. That's a very small demograhpic - specifically NFL fans who are passionate enough that they are season-ticket holder types - that suggests that the appeal was very limited outside of those areas.

It didn't break through to the wider sports loving/gambling community, it broke through to a group of Americans who have an affinity for their team's new, second-most-expensive-stadium in the world, and took the opportunity to go to another event at that very stadium.

 

[Consolaçao]

15k Aussies went over to Vegas with extra 5-7k from UK NZ Canada. That's 20k visitors nrl brought to Vegas surely the Nevada Government will start paying nrl to go there once the initial agreement is over as its such a great boost to their economy and use of their new stadium when NFL is on off-season.
Bear in mind there were 60km winds during the day which probably stopped extra fans walking up buying tickets.

15k bogans is a drop in the ocean when it comes to their annual tourism visitation surely?

 

[Angus Young]

Is this the same Peter Mitchell who's a passionate Collingwood fan? Just asking.

High probability considering they are the greatest football club in Australia.

 

[Diogenes]

Some good thoughts on an AFL path into the US

AFL to consider teaming up with cricket to take Aussie Rules to the USA

“I think there's opportunities for the AFL in the United States.”

www.sen.com.au

 

[Aussie in exile]

Over 60,000 at a women soccer game in England at a regular season game.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68395507

 

[Diogenes]

Things just get more and more bizarre
The boss of the SF49ers wants to buy an NRL team

‘Look at Ryan Reynolds’: San Francisco 49ers boss considers buying an NRL club

Al Guido reckons the NRL is onto a winner in the US – even if he thinks the season opener should be played at his team’s Levi’s Stadium.

www.smh.com.au

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Over 60,000 at a women soccer game in England at a regular season game.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68395507

Pretty incredible and goes to show there is a lot of things that come into play when it comes to attracting interest in sport.

I mean we always hear a reason the A league struggles is because of the standard, yet an average A league team would beat the Matilda’s 20-nil and they have sold out their last 11 games or something.
Probably also why the AFL are so obsessed with the American sports models, they manage to hype things better then anyone else

 

[Rob]

Pretty incredible and goes to show there is a lot of things that come into play when it comes to attracting interest in sport.

I mean we always hear a reason the A league struggles is because of the standard, yet an average A league team would beat the Matilda’s 20-nil and they have sold out their last 11 games or something.
Probably also why the AFL are so obsessed with the American sports models, they manage to hype things better then anyone else

I think what you're referring to is the novelty effect, where people watch not because of the product on offer, but for another reason.

History tells us that such boosts in popularity generally don't last.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

I don't think women's sport is a novelty, or that the standard of play being below men is really that relevant.

Sports interest isn't just the pure entertainment value of the output of physical exertion - it's the recognition that it's the best someone could possibly do. Therefore there is going to be a natural interest into the output of the best women trying their best in a sport as there is for the men.

 

[010203]

Let's be blunt, the nrl needs as much good publicity as it can get given this is a sport that had nearly 50000 empty seats for a preliminary final last year. Not even rugby league sycophants can spin that.

 

[Rob]

I don't think women's sport is a novelty, or that the standard of play being below men is really that relevant.

Sports interest isn't just the pure entertainment value of the output of physical exertion - it's the recognition that it's the best someone could possibly do. Therefore there is going to be a natural interest into the output of the best women trying their best in a sport as there is for the men.

Women's sport no, but its hard to argue that the current level of support for the Matildas isn't mostly bandwagon. The Socceroos went through something similar in the late 00s.
I would be very surprised if they were selling out venues for friendly matches in 5 years. Which isn't a slur on them as a sporting team, it's just the reality of the marketplace.

 

[2 eazy]

Let's be blunt, the nrl needs as much good publicity as it can get given this is a sport that had nearly 50000 empty seats for a preliminary final last year. Not even rugby league sycophants can spin that.

NRL gets more TV views with less games not including Origin plus is surging in NZ.

 

[weewilly]

It is wonder the bogan media V'Landys is not claiming as usual that they had 80,000 at the matches by combining both the crowd figures.

The test will come next year when the novelty starts to wear off and how much the NRL can make from gambling deal they have in the US.
It will also be interesting to see if they ever release the financial result and if it ran at a loss.

 

[weewilly]

Lets see how V'Landys and his mates at the Murdoch Sydney rags try to spin this. ​

NRL focus on future growth of American TV market after Las Vegas launch

Despite the spectacular success of the season-opening double-header, the NRL has a long way to go to penetrate the United States television market.

www.smh.com.au

​

NRL’s Las Vegas matches struggle to win over American viewers!​

By Adam Pengilly, Michael Chammas and Amelia McGuire​

March 6, 2024 — 11.58am

The NRL’s ambition to crack the American market will be a long and arduous one after the spectacular Las Vegas double-header created only a ripple in the television market.

Ratings from United States cable network Fox Sports 1 showed an average audience of just 61,000 tuned in to watch the season opener between the Sea Eagles and Rabbitohs, with a reduction to 44,000 for the Roosters-Broncos clash at Allegiant Stadium, according to US SportsMedia website

The figures represent a sobering start for the game’s wish to enhance their audience in the United States, increase subscriptions to the Watch NRL app and tap into America’s legalised gambling market.
The NRL has consistently said it’s a long-term plan for the game to grow in one of the world’s most competitive sporting markets, with a five-year deal to take matches to Las Vegas.

More than 40,000 fans went to the Super Bowl venue to watch the NRL’s double-header, but Australian Rugby League Commission boss Peter V’landys was keen to see how the event was received on American television.
An overtime contest in a college basketball match forced the NRL to be delayed on Fox Sports 1, missing the first 17 minutes of Manly’s upset win over South Sydney. The match between Xavier and Georgetown recorded ratings of 162,000.

The NRL’s Las Vegas double-header was a huge success, but the American television market will be a hard one to crack.CREDIT:NRL PHOTOS
The NRL ratings were still almost three times larger than any NRL game ever shown on a Saturday night American time on Fox Sports 1, and the coverage on Fox Sports 2 was five times higher than any other Australian rugby league match.
Australia’s Fox League reported record local audiences for the Las Vegas double-header.