- Apr 4, 2018
- 15,067
- 29,324
- AFL Club
- Carlton
What was the score?
Would be good to include the final scores in the opening post.
Would be good to include the final scores in the opening post.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Just wondering if you could point me In the direction of his last block of 4 games straight, played in the midfield (not on a wing), so I too can correctly access him.He’s played more than 60 AFL games. I’ve seen every one of them.
Do not bring a reasoned argument into this debate.Just wondering if you could point me In the direction of his last block of 4 games straight, played in the midfield (not on a wing), so I too can correctly access him.
Our development of Dow (and others) could not be any worse if we tried. Particularly under Teague and Bolton imo.Do not bring a reasoned argument into this debate.
He’s s**t, highlighted by the last game played out of position in a side that played horribly.
VFL form only applies to others
You will have to go back to the Bolton days probably.Just wondering if you could point me In the direction of his last block of 4 games straight, played in the midfield (not on a wing), so I too can correctly access him.
Re the bolded - Exactly.You will have to go back to the Bolton days probably.
Unfortunately the traits that stop him from being an AFL mid are still present at VFL level, even when he has bossed the midfield in recent weeks - he is purely an inside mid, exposed on turnover and kicking is inconsistent.
I'd love him to make it as his inside game is high level, but he's still behind Cripps, Cerra, Hewett, Walsh, Kennedy and maybe even Setterfield. It might seem unfair that he hasn't had a go, but there's only so many mids you can have in one team and Dow doesn't have a second position.
I've seen plenty over his AFL and VFL career to say he's still missing some very key ingredients. It's not about better or worse, it's about capabilities. And I'm not basing my opinion off one game as you seem to suggest - you are right that the game he played this year is not really relevant to the bigger picture.Re the bolded - Exactly.
Again, how could you possibly know his inside game is better or worse? He’s had one game in the role, in a game we didn’t play particularly well in as a whole.
And if we’re going to base it off one game, purely as an inside mid, how can you categorically say he’s better than that group (setterfield and Kennedy didn’t play)?
Had more centre clearances than Walsh and hewett; more clearances than Walsh, Cripps, hewett; more tackles than cerra, Cripps, Walsh. All from 65% game time.
And no, I’m not saying that he’s better than any of them. I’m simply question the logic, that’s all.
Half his Afl games were gifted to him at the start of his career when he had defensive deficiencies to work on. And the other half were him being shoehorned into a position He simply wasn’t any good at.I've seen plenty over his AFL and VFL career to say he's still missing some very key ingredients. It's not about better or worse, it's about capabilities. And I'm not basing my opinion off one game as you seem to suggest - you are right that the game he played this year is not really relevant to the bigger picture.
You also seem to be trying to say he's untested or untried and therefore everyone should back him in. But he's played more than 60 AFL games and his VFL form is there for everyone to see. Getting it 35 times in the VFL is no guarantee for AFL success if your skills and defensive pressure are not up to scratch. Just ask Nick Graham.
You could look at it another way. The coaches don't think he's ahead of the other mids ... he couldn't even get a game when half our mids were injured. Maybe they are seeing the same things I see.
Can you nominate a clear set of regular examples where Kennedy and Cripps are defensively better?You will have to go back to the Bolton days probably.
Unfortunately the traits that stop him from being an AFL mid are still present at VFL level, even when he has bossed the midfield in recent weeks - he is purely an inside mid, exposed on turnover and kicking is inconsistent.
I'd love him to make it as his inside game is high level, but he's still behind Cripps, Cerra, Hewett, Walsh, Kennedy and maybe even Setterfield. It might seem unfair that he hasn't had a go, but there's only so many mids you can have in one team and Dow doesn't have a second position.
Cripps and Kennedy rate 1 and 4 on our list for tackles per game in 2022 … is that clear enough?Can you nominate a clear set of regular examples where Kennedy and Cripps are defensively better?
Definitely not in open play, maybe a smidge inside the contest, but some of that comes from understanding the system.
I agree with all of that. Just not sure it’s going to happen for him at Carlton.Half his Afl games were gifted to him at the start of his career when he had defensive deficiencies to work on. And the other half were him being shoehorned into a position He simply wasn’t any good at.
His career trajectory has shared a few similarities with setterfield. Talented junior, showed a bit early, shifted to a position he wasn’t suited to, confidence depleted, made to work his way back through a lengthy block of vfl football.
Setterfield was given an opportunity in the right position late in the season and unsurprisingly, looked much better. Dow just needs to be given that same opportunity, over a block of games. Simple as that.
Kennedy is another that’s followed a similar path albeit a year earlier.
I’m not saying he should, or shouldn’t have been given more senior games this year. This is the sort of development he should have gotten in years 1/2 (although I didn’t agree with dropping him after the pies game, or bringing him in against the lions only to play him forward).
He’s shown huge improvement in the twos, been our best player by a mile. Blind Freddy can see that.
I wouldn’t normally quote something a few days old on the vfl thread but did you check the stats at all? Dow attended 9 center bounces and had 3 center clearances. The team only had 9 center clearances for the whole game.That's probably because we were getting smashed in the middle when Dow was there early in the game.
Most tackles happen around stoppages, and most of those tend to be due to getting to the ball second. That was kind of my point.Cripps and Kennedy rate 1 and 4 on our list for tackles per game in 2022 … is that clear enough?
And unfortunately, that is a flaw with a lot of coaches. They are stubborn in their views and lack creativity. Unsurprising, considering where coaches come from.I agree with all of that. Just not sure it’s going to happen for him at Carlton.
We recruited Zac Williams on a promise to give him midfield time even though he was never fit enough to fulfil the role. Rather than dealing with the issues, we just pushed him back to hbf.And unfortunately, that is a flaw with a lot of coaches. They are stubborn in their views and lack creativity. Unsurprising, considering where coaches come from.
How many coaches coaches have fallen on their sword, unable to delegate tasks to assistants, trying to take on everything themselves? How many players get moved on, only to find themselves well entrenched in a 22 elsewhere, even when that player fills a need at the original club.
Every club is dealt a hand, and it’s up to the coaches to manipulate that hand to its full potential. Good clubs and good coaches find a way. Look at how Melbourne shuffled deck chairs to use brayshaw, or Sydney with Blakey. Freo we’re developing Cerra as a wing/outside mid because they had Mundy, fyfe, brayshaw, serong who are all better inside, whilst cerra is equally capable at both, and their wings weren’t particularly strong.
We could do something similar with Walsh or Cerra, especially because Walsh isn’t particularly good at a centre stoppage.