Expansion 3rd Western Australian club

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The_Wookie

Queenslander
Jul 2, 2010
33,324
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"The WAFC received $11.2 million from the State Government last year as part of its annual funding agreement "

Wasn't this a settlement on giving up the lease on Subiaco and moving to Perth Stadium?
Its its annual distribution from the WA government - it gets the same for 10 years for breaking the Subiaco lease.
 

kranger

Team Captain
Nov 30, 2006
369
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Could Ellenbrook eventually become a separate city in the sense Joondalup could have been? Looking at the map there seems to be some level of separation at present.
I just found this map from the WAFC Strategic Facilities Plan available on this link below, which shows where people will be living in Perth in the future, based on government modelling:


295901FB-FB1E-4367-9F99-3F11206700D3.jpeg


I also found these other interesting pages, such as the quality of WAFL facilities.

75DB0184-11BF-4B80-AED7-86C998894312.jpeg


8B195BC2-E976-4071-A7C2-B8823FCADA67.jpeg

Whilst I’ve been able to find the AFL’s standards for state level facilities, I haven’t been able to find any standards for Tier Two AFL venues.


EB209DEB-019E-42F6-B6BF-5BFA0863E632.jpeg
 

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TWLS

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Jul 19, 2015
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plans to knock down old stand and increase what the Eagles have built around the ground in the next couple of years FWIU
Two Comments -
No projected figures for future female participation - Lets have a stab - Find out how many girls 5- 12 there are currently in WA and use their projected population increase, and work out what percentage now play -Also the Govt has to work out where future 5 -12 girls in Primary Schools have to go. May not be accurate but better than nothing.
The Female change room facilities position may have been improved with some of the outrageous bloated salaries being earned at the WAFC thus the recent cull. Would they have even ventured out of their bubbles to have a look. The WA Country Footy Leagues were very unhappy when they heard the figures.
This country needs a massive dose of commonsense everywhere.
 
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Johnny Bananas

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I can see people are dismissive of Ellenbrook and its potential, but what can't be dismissed is its population growth. It grew by 50% between 2012-2019, and before Covid was predicted to grow another 50% from 2019-2024.


And this is before the railway line. Put that in and it could get to 100k by the early 2030s. While that's still less than Joondalup, it has some level of separation.

But perhaps that's still not enough for a team. Could something stretching across Ellenbrook and Midland work? Swan Valley Football Club or something like that?
 

The_Reaper

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Jan 26, 2006
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I can see people are dismissive of Ellenbrook and its potential, but what can't be dismissed is its population growth. It grew by 50% between 2012-2019, and before Covid was predicted to grow another 50% from 2019-2024.


And this is before the railway line. Put that in and it could get to 100k by the early 2030s. While that's still less than Joondalup, it has some level of separation.

But perhaps that's still not enough for a team. Could something stretching across Ellenbrook and Midland work? Swan Valley Football Club or something like that?
By this logic may as well give Ballarat and Darwin teams
 

Rob

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But perhaps that's still not enough for a team. Could something stretching across Ellenbrook and Midland work? Swan Valley Football Club or something like that?
I don't mind that idea. Wouldn't work for 20 years, but worth a bit of planning now. Plenty of cheap land out that way if they want to set up a training base.

Shits all over Joondalup anyway.
 

Johnny Bananas

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I don't mind that idea. Wouldn't work for 20 years, but worth a bit of planning now. Plenty of cheap land out that way if they want to set up a training base.

Shits all over Joondalup anyway.
I remember someone else saying a couple of pages ago, might have been you, that Midland at least has its own separate identity to the rest of Perth. I can't say I've been there to be able to have an informed opinion, but it could be a starting point.
 

Rob

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I remember someone else saying a couple of pages ago, might have been you, that Midland at least has its own separate identity to the rest of Perth. I can't say I've been there to be able to have an informed opinion, but it could be a starting point.
A little bit. Genuine working class area with it's own history. It just never had the population to support an AFL team on it's own - but if 150,000 people live in Ellenbrook and you could link a team across the City of Swan, then it's a potential show. Like I said, not for 20 or so years but the Swan Valley Winos might be a goer.
 

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kranger

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Nov 30, 2006
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I would agree that the Swan Valley has a bit of an identity, but not the population. Perth Hills would have an identity too, spread from Mundaring to Roleystone, but again not quite the population alone.

However whilst the Dockers have strong support from Freo and is the basis of their identity, Freo have supporters coming from all over Perth and WA.

You could go for a combined Swan Hills team that represents both the Swan Valley and the Perth Hills and could use Bassendean Oval (home of Swan Districts in the WAFL) as a training ground.

The new AFL team might give reason to finally upgrade Bassendean Oval, and like the Dockers just gain supporters from anywhere.
 

Rob

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I would agree that the Swan Valley has a bit of an identity, but not the population. Perth Hills would have an identity too, spread from Mundaring to Roleystone, but again not quite the population alone.

However whilst the Dockers have strong support from Freo and is the basis of their identity, Freo have supporters coming from all over Perth and WA.

You could go for a combined Swan Hills team that represents both the Swan Valley and the Perth Hills and could use Bassendean Oval (home of Swan Districts in the WAFL) as a training ground.

The new AFL team might give reason to finally upgrade Bassendean Oval, and like the Dockers just gain supporters from anywhere.
The problem I see with that is that it effectively becomes Swan Districts in the AFL, and any new team would need a much broader support base. That's why I like the idea of a Swan Valley team - you'd hopefully get all the old Swans fans on board, but you'd also tap into Ellenbrook and surrounding areas (which isn't much now but it probably will be in 20 years).

Set up a training base in West Swan or somewhere nearby where there's plenty of (cheapish) land. Play some pre-season games at Basso if they want to.

Of all the ideas i've heard about the 3rd WA team, I reckon that has the best long term chance of working. Joondalup would just be Eagles-lite.
 

FootyJunkie

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A 20th side is inevitable once Tassie arrives... we were potentially looking at WA3 within the next 10 years pre-Covid, but who really knows now.

WA really needs more time anyway for added population growth to give a 3rd side there any chance of being viable.

Currently, there are no strong options to get a new side going in WA.

Options:

Perth WAFL United
- with forced links to the 3 WAFL Perth sides with the hope that a few die hards from the Eagles fanbase jump off... messy identity, care factor?

"Perth" from scratch
- completely new side with no historical ties comprised of people who are shut out from seeing Eagles/Freo games? Weak argument.

Joondalup
- just one big shopping center, Eagles territory with no separate identity (Falcons not a distinct mascot), side would be playing in Perth anyway

City of Swan/Ellenbrook/Swan Valley
- promising, with cheap land out that way atm to build up alternative fan base on the outskirts of Perth, but obviously very early days as a catchment area

South West - Mandurah/Bunbury beyond
- maybe go for a Geelong-esque arrangement... but this is probably a generation away... doubt the AFL would be interested much outside Perth metro anyway

....

Other than $$$ and a few more twilight time slots for footy shown primetime back east, WA is already an Aussie Rules state.

AFL would be better off putting the same effort in getting a Canberra side going up on the frontier.
Reclaiming a territory it had let go and move the Barassi line up north.
Giants should be in Sydney full time anyway.
 
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Ambrose Burnside

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Dec 8, 2006
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Imagine if a third WA team is introduced, but instead of attracting Eagles fans that can't attend games because 100k members can't fit in a 60k stadium, they attract Freo fans keen to jump ship to something new and shiny like it's 1995 all over again.

Would be a disaster. I kinda hope it happens :straining:
 

Les Malone

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Statistics should own a third club as much as anything else.

Current Population

number of WA payers in the AFL ATM

community support for the game

projected population

grass roots number of players or % playing the game as a % of population

average age of the state and projections

average income and disposable income

etc etc

.........

when all those type of questions and many more are asked and answered, i would think a third would be viable and at some point actually needed
 

RedV3x

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Dec 14, 2015
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when all those type of questions and many more are asked and answered, i would think a third would be viable and at some point actually needed
Technically yes, but it's more a case of:
1.Waiting for a Dockers vs Eagles grand final.
2.Working out the 20th team.
3.Realising that more than 18 items needs a conference system.

Perhaps a relocated side:
1. Western Bulldogs.
2. Saint Swan Valley.
3. Melgone Demons.
4. Sunset Coast Suns.
5. Perth Lyons.
6. Mining Giants.
 

jatz14

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Statistics should own a third club as much as anything else.

Current Population

number of WA payers in the AFL ATM

community support for the game

projected population

grass roots number of players or % playing the game as a % of population

average age of the state and projections

average income and disposable income

etc etc

.........

when all those type of questions and many more are asked and answered, i would think a third would be viable and at some point actually needed
On stats, it's viable, but it doesn't work on stats.

The small Melbourne clubs have never really made inroads into the bug clubs, and that's over decades.

I don't think a 3rd WA club makes any inroads on Eagles or Freo, and if that's the case, the total population argument doesn't work.

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

TWLS

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On stats, it's viable, but it doesn't work on stats.

The small Melbourne clubs have never really made inroads into the bug clubs, and that's over decades.

I don't think a 3rd WA club makes any inroads on Eagles or Freo, and if that's the case, the total population argument doesn't work.

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app
Off Topic but related - Indirectly.
A very important WA Footy Commission meeting is coming up shortly. The WAFL Clubs very very unhappy with it and its administration. Quite a few newer footy and non footy people not happy either and they are nominating for positions there. However at the same time footy journos are now saying that the WAFC and the Eagles must sit down and sort out the proper funding of WA footy.
Eagles are sitting on 100,000??? members it was said and making good profits and should be contributing more to the WAFC. One report said that the Eagles had at one time 60% of footy revenue generated in WA and have never been a major recipient club of AFL Funds in recent years. Not sure what year but roughly that left the Dockers with 40%.
Another Club will have to eat into the Eagles and Dockers funding and Perth is just not big enough currently and how will 3 clubs share Optus.
 

Johnny Bananas

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 10, 2010
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The small Melbourne clubs have never really made inroads into the bug clubs, and that's over decades.

I don't think a 3rd WA club makes any inroads on Eagles or Freo, and if that's the case, the total population argument doesn't work.

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app
By that logic Freo shouldn't have made any inroads on the Eagles, particularly as they geographically limited themselves from the beginning.

Another Club will have to eat into the Eagles and Dockers funding and Perth is just not big enough currently and how will 3 clubs share Optus.
How is Perth not big enough? Adelaide has one club per 650 000 people. Melbourne has one club per 550 000 people. Perth has 2 million people currently, with three clubs that'd be one per 667 000 people. The population argument isn't in question. And neither is the money since Perth's GDP per capita is higher than Melbourne's and much higher than Adelaide's.

The only argument is whether a third club will gain popularity, and if so, whether it will eat into the Eagles' base or Freo's. I think it can be done provided it gains a geographic foothold, and it won't hurt Freo badly if that foothold is a good distance away from Fremantle, Cockburn or Mandurah.

As for how three clubs will share Optus Stadium, there are already more than three clubs sharing both the MCG and Docklands. And we have 12 clubs sharing the Gabba and Metricon at the moment.
 
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