AFL back to 1870
- Thread starter FootyGeek
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Sorry mate read that wrong
And I agree with the rest of your post
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- #328
What exactly was this 'merger' then?
Priority access by the Bears to 8 Fitzroy players, an AFL ruling that the Bears could pick up father sons from Fitzroy players who played over 50 senior games and a rebranding of the existing Brisbane Football Club from Bears to Lions.
Is that it?
And of course from 1997, Fitzroy Football Club still survive in their own right, with their own board of directors and club constitution, their own shareholders, their own members and their own revenue streams. Now of course they also have their own players (four teams, seniors, reserves, thirds and U/19s) and their own home ground (which is their original home ground). Not to mention Fitzroy still own much of their IP that they had in the AFL, including the FFC logo pictured below.
All completely separate to that of the Brisbane Lions. So how is it a merger of two clubs into one?
The Fitzroy Football Club, currently competing in the VAFA are legally (established in the Supreme Court of Victoria in 2010), spiritually (they currently are as they started...representing the suburb of Fitzroy at the Brunswick Street Oval) and morally (underhandedly removed by the AFL commission and clubs from the AFL in 1996, via the withdrawal of their AFL licence), the very same club as the Fitzroy that competed in the VFL-AFL for one hundred years.
For much the same reasons, the records of the VFA and the VFL-AFL should be distinct.
Like Brisbane and Fitzroy, the VFL-AFL and the VFA-VFL are separate entities.
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Dumb.
In the early years Grand finals weren't even played IIRC. Are we going to have a separate tally for those?
In the early years Grand finals weren't even played IIRC. Are we going to have a separate tally for those?
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<ridiculous rant>
The Premiership tally should be broken up by every name change, every time a team was added or subtracted, and every time the system of determining the premier changed!
</ridiculous rant>
The Premiership tally should be broken up by every name change, every time a team was added or subtracted, and every time the system of determining the premier changed!
</ridiculous rant>
Fair call - although tHis century against Blues has been pretty bright though given out some pretty brutal floggings
Yep ridiculous alright as you're the only person on this whole thread that has said that
Over-representation is the problem, not Under-representation. Do you know of any that have 50% of the teams from one state? Like the NBA having 15 teams from California, or the NFL having 20 teams from Texas? That's the point you should be concentrating on.
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- #334
But the point is that the power of the national game has always been concentrated in Victoria.
The competition reflects that even today.
For over 140 years the best players in the country have been migrating to Melbourne to try to strut their stuff in the best league in the land and the also ran Melbourne players have been migrating to the inferior interstate or country leagues to earn a quid.
Mr Smiff
Club Legend
You are exaggerating history to come to a conclusion that is completely wrong.
It's a different situation though. Even today, half of all AFL players come from Victoria. Were that the case in the US, things may be a little different.
As for the official league history change, what a *in *ed idea.
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- #338
Name one top line player from Victoria who went to SA or WA in the prime of their career more than 30 years ago to pursue greener pastures interstate.
TheHoneyBadger
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Albert Thurgood.
We've always been at war with Victoria.
I think eventually pre-AFL and AFL premierships will be more clearly distinguished to reflect the changes in the competition. In the end I guess it makes no difference, teams like Carlton and Geelong should still celebrate and acknowledge their pre-VFL premierships. I'd love to see the AFL give more weight to the respective state leagues though. Not in any changes to records maybe, but just a greater visibility of such a rich history.
Dustin Fletcher will be happy to know that his first flag is now counted.
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Mr Smiff
Club Legend
Your State leagues still exists, do they not...e.g... West Perth, Subiaco etc.......
But the VFL teams became the AFL and the VFA took over the mantel of VFL.
Should Carlton want to include their pre VFL premierships, your point is not valid.
Separate entities.
raman
Kind of a Jagger-Tarzan
Read the article.
Ugh this is all getting a bit ridiculous -
The AFL is certainly opening a can of worms by wanting to start incorporating VFA records into its history. I can totally see why Port Adelaide would decide to stick up their hands and say 'well what about ours (SANFL) then?' if this is what they are going to do.
It's all a bit of a joke.
If they AFL wanted to compile a detailed record of premierships that clubs have won during the history of Australian Football, then why don't they do something straight forward like this -
VFL/AFL flags
Essendon 16
Carlton 16
Collingwood 15
Melbourne 12
Hawthorn 11
Richmond 10
Geelong 9
Fitzroy 8
Syd/Sth Melbourne 5
North Melbourne 4
West Coast 3
Brisbane 3
Adelaide 2
St Kilda 1
W.B/ Footscray 1
Port Adelaide 1
SANFL flags
Port Adelaide 36
Norwood 29
North Adelaide 13
Sturt 13
South Adelaide 11
Central District 9
West Adelaide 8
West Torrens 4
Glenelg 4
Woodville/West Torrens 3
WAFL flags*
East Fremantle 29
West Perth 19
East Perth 17
South Fremantle 13
Subiaco 11
Claremont 11
Swan Districts 8
Perth 7
VFA/VFL Flags*
Port Melbourne 16
Williamstown 13
Sandringham 10
Geelong 9
Footscray 9
Coburg 6
Oakleigh 6
North Melbourne 6
Springvale/Casey 5
Prahran 5
Northcote 5
South Melbourne 5
Preston 4
Essendon 4
Dandenong 3
Brunswick 3
North Ballarat 3
Box Hill 2
Moorabin 2
Yarraville 2
Richmond 2
Carlton 2
Werribee 1
Geelong West 1
Waverly 1
Brighton 1
West Melbourne 1
Collingwood 1
Fitzroy 1
and there we go - a somewhat detailed history of senior premierships won by Australian Football Clubs over the past 140 odd year of competition in this country, over the 4 top leagues during that time - You may notice that some clubs are in more than 1 list, but that is because they have competed in more than 1 competition...
How people decide what is 'worth' more is up to them, but otherwise splitting hairs. The teams won those flags in those competitions... easy...
*I just got those lists from Wiki and I don't pretend at all to have any real insight into WA or VFA football history...
** on a side note.. noticed the SANFL was having more inductees into the South Australian Football Hall of Fame.. made me think... Is there a Victorian Football Hall of Fame, or is that just the Australian Football Hall of Fame by defualt?
The AFL is certainly opening a can of worms by wanting to start incorporating VFA records into its history. I can totally see why Port Adelaide would decide to stick up their hands and say 'well what about ours (SANFL) then?' if this is what they are going to do.
It's all a bit of a joke.
If they AFL wanted to compile a detailed record of premierships that clubs have won during the history of Australian Football, then why don't they do something straight forward like this -
VFL/AFL flags
Essendon 16
Carlton 16
Collingwood 15
Melbourne 12
Hawthorn 11
Richmond 10
Geelong 9
Fitzroy 8
Syd/Sth Melbourne 5
North Melbourne 4
West Coast 3
Brisbane 3
Adelaide 2
St Kilda 1
W.B/ Footscray 1
Port Adelaide 1
SANFL flags
Port Adelaide 36
Norwood 29
North Adelaide 13
Sturt 13
South Adelaide 11
Central District 9
West Adelaide 8
West Torrens 4
Glenelg 4
Woodville/West Torrens 3
WAFL flags*
East Fremantle 29
West Perth 19
East Perth 17
South Fremantle 13
Subiaco 11
Claremont 11
Swan Districts 8
Perth 7
VFA/VFL Flags*
Port Melbourne 16
Williamstown 13
Sandringham 10
Geelong 9
Footscray 9
Coburg 6
Oakleigh 6
North Melbourne 6
Springvale/Casey 5
Prahran 5
Northcote 5
South Melbourne 5
Preston 4
Essendon 4
Dandenong 3
Brunswick 3
North Ballarat 3
Box Hill 2
Moorabin 2
Yarraville 2
Richmond 2
Carlton 2
Werribee 1
Geelong West 1
Waverly 1
Brighton 1
West Melbourne 1
Collingwood 1
Fitzroy 1
and there we go - a somewhat detailed history of senior premierships won by Australian Football Clubs over the past 140 odd year of competition in this country, over the 4 top leagues during that time - You may notice that some clubs are in more than 1 list, but that is because they have competed in more than 1 competition...
How people decide what is 'worth' more is up to them, but otherwise splitting hairs. The teams won those flags in those competitions... easy...
*I just got those lists from Wiki and I don't pretend at all to have any real insight into WA or VFA football history...
** on a side note.. noticed the SANFL was having more inductees into the South Australian Football Hall of Fame.. made me think... Is there a Victorian Football Hall of Fame, or is that just the Australian Football Hall of Fame by defualt?
SJ
Premium Platinum
It already is this! Just needs to be acknowledged a more broadly.
From what I gathered from the article it seemed more like a Victorian circle jerk wanting to add VFA flags and erronously count them as VFL flags while continuing to ignore the strong football history in other states.
I have no issue at all with a 2nd table recognising all the VFA flags that teams won - I think it's a good idea. Just throw up a WAFL and SANFL table at the same time
SJ
Premium Platinum
Correct.
But what I am saying is the current (and correct) official paradigm is as you put it. It just isn't widely acknowledged much (in Victoria) that there has ever been football outside of the VFL/AFL (except when the AFL can make a dollar out of it).
At the end of the day, there is no need for tables or tallies anyway. You don't 'win' something for coming the top of the premiership table. Lists for each competition listing year and premier do the trick.
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