News AFL overhauls Academy and FS bid matching, discussing draft lockout

[briztoon]

If you’re upset with any of StK’s suggestions then it’s only because you know your club gets an unfair advantage from the current rules and you don’t want to lose it.

I get where you're coming from.

However St Kilda arguing to keep the nga's while disbanding the northern academies is 100% a reversal of what they're complaining about.

That'd almost rule the northern academies obsolete. I don't believe either NSW academy has produced an academy kid that would qualify under nga rules, while the two QLD clubs would have produced 4 kids to date under nga rules.

Where as St Kilda currently have 7 kids on Sandringham's list.


I have no problem with getting rid of all academies and father sons. I'd go further and get rid of all forms of draft compensation all together. Have a complete unadulterated draft.

That still won't help St Kilda, as they're a small, poorly run club with sh!t recruitment staff.

 

[briztoon]

I’m ok with the NGA changes, as long as it doesn’t come in for 3 years. Now clubs can trade 3 years in advance, they have been working on strategies using picks based on the players coming through.

As far as Father Son goes, I’d be pushing for a limit in the AFL era.

It would mightily ** me off watching Darcy, Ablett, Hawkins and Daicos’ etc tear the comp a new arse for years, and when Pavlich and Mundy’s sons or whoever come through we have no access to them. ** that.

lol the two clubs that will get the biggest benefit from the current nga rules, over the next 5 years, Freo and West Coast.

I'm with you on father son kids. We've still got more father sons from our golden era team coming. Young Tex Copeland leading our U16's in this years national carnival, but we've got to get Brown's kids out of the Gold Coasts academy.

 

[Monsterdarlz]

lol the two clubs that will get the biggest benefit from the current nga rules, over the next 5 years, Freo and West Coast.

I'm with you on father son kids. We've still got more father sons from our golden era team coming. Young Tex Copeland leading our U16's in this years national carnival, but we've got to get Brown's kids out of the Gold Coasts academy.

Based off assumptions even this year Brisbane’s academy haul is better then any wa clubs

 

[briztoon]

Based off assumptions even this year Brisbane’s academy haul is better then any wa clubs

I specifically mentioned the next 5 years. You've got one of WA's top kids for next year as part of your NGA academy and about half a dozen kids named on your forums nga thread to watch for next year.

 

[Lach72]

lol the two clubs that will get the biggest benefit from the current nga rules, over the next 5 years, Freo and West Coast.

I'm with you on father son kids. We've still got more father sons from our golden era team coming. Young Tex Copeland leading our U16's in this years national carnival, but we've got to get Brown's kids out of the Gold Coasts academy.

Sure. We’re getting two kids over the next two years….where as Gold Coast have had what…6 kids over the last few years plus more to come?
We’ve had Brandon Walker and Draper that are any good recently
You’ve had three father sons plus northern academy kids still to come.
In terms of father sons we’ve had Brett Peake, and Jaren Carr in 30 years. You got 3 in 3 years, not counting Brown etc
You should pipe down on that account.

 

[sydney_gws]

I think northern academies have benefits , just make them stop double dipping and use their own draft picks to take players, rather than matching.
If swans have pick 10 and the 12th rated player, trade 10 for 12 and F2, use 12 on the player.

I think this happens if academies are limited to 3 top 30 matches in 5 years.

 

[s_wd6]

I specifically mentioned the next 5 years. You've got one of WA's top kids for next year as part of your NGA academy and about half a dozen kids named on your forums nga thread to watch for next year.

Half a dozen named in threads a year out but when the time comes it always ends up as one decent prospect (early second round at best) and the rest are speculative Cat Bs.

 

[briztoon]

Sure. We’re getting two kids over the next two years….where as Gold Coast have had what…6 kids over the last few years plus more to come?
We’ve had Brandon Walker and Draper that are any good recently
You’ve had three father sons plus northern academy kids still to come.
In terms of father sons we’ve had Brett Peake, and Jaren Carr in 30 years. You got 3 in 3 years, not counting Brown etc
You should pipe down on that account.

Father sons are a pure lottery. Me talking about more to come, is me sh!t stirring (aimed at St Kilda).

However, the changes brought back in for the nga's really should benefit the WA clubs the most. I know it's already been talked about on the West Coast board, and I'm sure I read that WC will be putting significant funds in to their academy. So question to you, have the Freo draft nuffies talked about it on your board?

As for Gold Coasts academy. It's current success didn't happen over night, they changed it's whole structure back in 2018 and appointed Rhyce Shaw as it's head in 2020, after he lost the North job. And it's been noted on here and the draft board, after this year's crop, it looks pretty lean over the next two or three age groups. So they have had three good years of drafts, on the back of being repeatedly raided by the big Vic clubs (and SA clubs), and everyone else has a sook.

What Gold Coast has done over the last 7 years with their academy should be the blue print for all academies, and is what the AFL want. You all just see the end result, GC loading up on local kids, you don't see how they've embedded the game in to the local schools, and grown the game at grass roots level. Much of it, many of you don't understand fully, because aussie rules is the football code you all grow up with and played in every school.

Honestly, I have no problem if all academies and father sons are scraped, etc, but for the northern clubs to survive that, the AFL would have to severely wind back free agency rules, extend and tighten draftee contracts, etc. And stop kids from saying they don't want to move interstate before they are drafted.

None of us northern clubs want to be feeder clubs to the vic clubs, but what St Kilda is pushing for will create that situation again.

But most of you don't care, because the vast majority of fans only care about the self interest of their club, and couldn't give a f**k about other clubs being screwed over any which way.

As I said before, back in 2018, St Kilda didn't give a sh!t about academies, all they cared about was when would it be their turn to raid Gold Coast, so much so, that their clubs official twitter account said they were coming for Ben King 10 minutes after he was drafted.

So as far as all us northern clubs are concerned St Kilda can f**k off and fold and be buried to never disgrace the competition again.

Their problems are of their own making because they have sh!t people running their club from the top down.

 

[Monsterdarlz]

I specifically mentioned the next 5 years. You've got one of WA's top kids for next year as part of your NGA academy and about half a dozen kids named on your forums nga thread to watch for next year.

You have zero restrictions on availability of players outside of zone or where they come from it’s a massive advantage

 

[briztoon]

Half a dozen named in threads a year out but when the time comes it always ends up as one decent prospect (early second round at best) and the rest are speculative Cat Bs.

In terms of actual academy kids, that's no different to my club. Go back 2 years and we had 4 or 5 academy kids for this years draft, named in the U16 AA team.

We've had Hipwood at pick 14 as our highest drafted academy kid to date (be honest, do you rate Hipwood?). And Marshall was a late first round academy kid last year. Andrews was a pick in the 60's. No one bid on Jack Payne, we drafted him with one our own natural picks in the 60's. Keidean Coleman wasn't even bid on in his draft year, came back as a 19 year old in our academy and was a second round nomination.

Obviously that changes this year with Annabel. The rest of our academy kids this year are probably rookie picks, or we end up drafting one late with a natural pick.

 

[briztoon]

You have zero restrictions on availability of players outside of zone or where they come from it’s a massive advantage

It would be if the majority of kids played aussie rules. But they don't. More kids still play rugby league or soccer. And NSW are still further behind.

All you have to do is talk to non Qld club fans who live here. Heck, the biggest supporter and most knowledgeable poster of the academies up here is a St Kilda fan.

There are 20 State High Schools in South East QLD that play aussie rules, and they're spread from the Gold Coast (actually from over the NSW border), Ipswich, Brisbane and the Sunshine Coast. 20 out of more than 200 State High Schools. And it's over 250km north to south that they travel.

It's only played in 8 private high schools, and played in summer, so it doesn't interfere with the rugby union season in winter.

 

[mpal6]

Keidean Coleman and Bruce Reville is the model AFL should encourage and incentivise clubs to do in terms of academy or NGA.

Young players who weren't good enough on draft year. Club decides to persist with them as overagers (Bruce was extreme case, drafted as 22 year old). When they seem to improve as a 19/20/21 year old, clubs who develop them in VFL academy or NGA get first dibs to take them. I'd say even outside draft, create 2 additional spots on the list for everyone. Now that'll be a good incentive for clubs to try and really grow the likely fringe prospects rather than just check birth certificate or heritage of players to claim them as their own.

 

[tombomb]

Just need to wait and see how the bidding changes play out this year.

In theory, if clubs have to pay a 'fair' price then that should resolve most of the fairness issues.

The AFL should have made these changes 10 years ago.

The thing that pisses me off is where is the leadership from the AFL. Why do they just let St Kilda's BS fester?!

 

[Dogflogger]

Even if they get the bidding right it still leaves a quarter of the league with legacy lists that cannot really be emulated, so essentially 10-15 years of waiting for it all the balance out. Better hope they dont bring in too many teams in that period or teams down the bottom of the ladder are in for a world of pain for the next decade or so. Sucks balls if your 30 years or older because you'll probably be dead before all this balances out.

 

[sydney_gws]

Just need to wait and see how the bidding changes play out this year.

In theory, if clubs have to pay a 'fair' price then that should resolve most of the fairness issues.

The AFL should have made these changes 10 years ago.

The thing that pisses me off is where is the leadership from the AFL. Why do they just let St Kilda's BS fester?!

I think previous system was about 3/10, the points curve changes only improve to about 6/10 at best .
Need to limit matching to 2 or 3 picks, also limit to say 3 top 20 picks over a 5 year period so clubs are forced to not double dip but use their own draft picks.
Or a similar idea, if a club had a draft prospect it thinks might be a 1st round pick, it must surrender its 1st round pick before the draft.
It matches with that pick ( and more if needed),and gets back some 2nd- 3rd round picks back.

 

[tombomb]

I think previous system was about 3/10, the points curve changes only improve to about 6/10 at best .
Need to limit matching to 2 or 3 picks, also limit to say 3 top 20 picks over a 5 year period so clubs are forced to not double dip but use their own draft picks.
Or a similar idea, if a club had a draft prospect it thinks might be a 1st round pick, it must surrender its 1st round pick before the draft.
It matches with that pick ( and more if needed),and gets back some 2nd- 3rd round picks back.

If they get the curve right, there is no need for the extra complications.

 

[Dogflogger]

I get where you're coming from.

However St Kilda arguing to keep the nga's while disbanding the northern academies is 100% a reversal of what they're complaining about.

That'd almost rule the northern academies obsolete. I don't believe either NSW academy has produced an academy kid that would qualify under nga rules, while the two QLD clubs would have produced 4 kids to date under nga rules.

Where as St Kilda currently have 7 kids on Sandringham's list.


I have no problem with getting rid of all academies and father sons. I'd go further and get rid of all forms of draft compensation all together. Have a complete unadulterated draft.

That still won't help St Kilda, as they're a small, poorly run club with sh!t recruitment staff.

Hard to see how it wont help Saints, for the majority of Saints fans we have only seen 1 father son who played 11 games, yet we have seen our team lose 2 premierships to teams littered with father son star.

And the only year we had academy players come through was the period they changed to rules to let anyone take them pre pick 20. it might not make us any better but it sure as shit will weaken and spread the talent among our opponents.

 

[Warhorse]

I get where you're coming from.

However St Kilda arguing to keep the nga's while disbanding the northern academies is 100% a reversal of what they're complaining about.

That'd almost rule the northern academies obsolete. I don't believe either NSW academy has produced an academy kid that would qualify under nga rules, while the two QLD clubs would have produced 4 kids to date under nga rules.

Where as St Kilda currently have 7 kids on Sandringham's list.


I have no problem with getting rid of all academies and father sons. I'd go further and get rid of all forms of draft compensation all together. Have a complete unadulterated draft.

That still won't help St Kilda, as they're a small, poorly run club with sh!t recruitment staff.

How can you argue it won't help St Kilda? They will have access to more talent

 

[jdstorm]

Even if they get the bidding right it still leaves a quarter of the league with legacy lists that cannot really be emulated, so essentially 10-15 years of waiting for it all the balance out. Better hope they dont bring in too many teams in that period or teams down the bottom of the ladder are in for a world of pain for the next decade or so. Sucks balls if your 30 years or older because you'll probably be dead before all this balances out.

What a flog take. Players sign 6 year contracts for the most part and the salary cap equalises things so it’s about a 5 year process.

Poorly finishing clubs mostly do so due to incompetence more then anything else

 

[briztoon]

How can you argue it won't help St Kilda? They will have access to more talent

How will they get access to "more" talent. You possibly mean better talent.

Otherwise, they're still a small market team that struggles to attract elite talent through trades. They are poorly run, have a fraud and a bagman in charge of their list management, and their current coach has a sh!t game plan.

 

[Dogflogger]

What a flog take. Players sign 6 year contracts for the most part and the salary cap equalises things so it’s about a 5 year process.

Poorly finishing clubs mostly do so due to incompetence more then anything else

Could have sworn i saw Hawkins win a premiership a couple years ago almost off his own boot in his 15th year. all while apparently taking pay cuts to keep the team strong, Wonder how many Premierships the Daicos/Ashcroft boys will win before they retire. Wonder if the Academy players are gonna be loyal enough to take pay cuts

 

[boncer34]

Could have sworn i saw Hawkins win a premiership a couple years ago almost off his own boot in his 15th year. all while apparently taking pay cuts to keep the team strong, Wonder how many Premierships the Daicos/Ashcroft boys will win before they retire. Wonder if the Academy players are gonna be loyal enough to take pay cuts

Walk me through that logic.

The only final anyone got close to Geelong in that year he kicked 1 goal in the 2nd quarter and was unsighted the rest of the match.

 

[jdstorm]

Could have sworn i saw Hawkins win a premiership a couple years ago almost off his own boot in his 15th year. all while apparently taking pay cuts to keep the team strong, Wonder how many Premierships the Daicos/Ashcroft boys will win before they retire. Wonder if the Academy players are gonna be loyal enough to take pay cuts

I saw Joe Daniher win one off his own boot for Brisbane. Same as Josh Dunkley

This stuff isn’t an exact science (except how the afl never manage to cotton on to Geelong’s infinite salary cap)

What holds true is good clubs find ways to stay successful and poorly run clubs mire in mediocrity.

 

[sydney_gws]

I saw Joe Daniher win one off his own boot for Brisbane. Same as Josh Dunkley

This stuff isn’t an exact science (except how the afl never manage to cotton on to Geelong’s infinite salary cap)

What holds true is good clubs find ways to stay successful and poorly run clubs mire in mediocrity.

Although Geelong somehow got Smith Cheaply.
Selwood, Hawkins, Dangerfield, Cameron, Stewart are great players. Only 3 of them left.
Will be interesting if Geelong 2027-31 is successful. Will depend on what free agents they can get.

 

[briztoon]

Could have sworn i saw Hawkins win a premiership a couple years ago almost off his own boot in his 15th year. all while apparently taking pay cuts to keep the team strong, Wonder how many Premierships the Daicos/Ashcroft boys will win before they retire. Wonder if the Academy players are gonna be loyal enough to take pay cuts

We have a salary structure in place. Literally every player on our list takes a pay cut to keep everyone together.

No one player has been on a million a year deal yet.