News AFL overhauls Academy and FS bid matching, discussing draft lockout

[longdonkey]

Incorrect.

Some clubs get millions more in distributions than other clubs.

THAT is the TV rights money.

Clubs generate their own revenue from memberships, merchandise, sponsors and stadium deals. Nothing to do with TV rights and AFL distributions and funding.

The additional distributions above average to the Northern clubs and other smaller clubs help fund the academies along with sponsors.

I am aware of distribution payments not being equal. But those distribution payments all come from TV money as you said. The fact is they aren't equal is because if they were teams like St Kilda and North Melbourne would become footnotes in history and the Northern clubs would be down at least 2. So then the TV rights money would be significantly less and everyone except a very small number of clubs would be worse off.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Free agency and the scrapping of the Father son is ripping the romance out of the sport. Its just another nail in the coffin for my love of the game. I'm pretty glad I had a childhood where my idols lived and breathed for the club and I knew putting a number on my jumper was for good. Andrew Dillon is the worst adminstrator the game has ever had.

I am guessing you dont follow any American Sports then?

To think you actually follow AFL because of the Romantic Father-Son rule is hilarious

 

[Elixuh]

The irony of a club not being able to access young talent in the draft thereby forced to pay overs for established talent is clearly not lost on you….

Adelaide seemed to be able to access young talent and move up the ladder from bottom to the minor premiership. Perhaps St Kilda's drafting just hasn't been up to scratch. Instead of the sob story, maybe look inwards.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Are there any genuine reasons as to why it's a bad thing outside "everyone else got theirs, I want mine?"

• Academies will still continue if they are locked out of the first round, the benefits are still massive and it hasnt stopped NGAs continuing. More kids from your state is a good thing regardless of where they are drafted
• We already have heaps of Vic kids "strongly advising" they dont be picked up so much so that non-Vics have to have different draft boards. If it goes the other way a bit, who cares, at least it's equal
• Yes, the clubs that have benefitted from it so much already will have a leg up lasting 10 years. Doing it now is still 1 day close to fixing a massive issue then doing it tomorrow.

Fair criticism is the AFL is a micky mouse organisation that hasnt even seen the effect of their points changes yet and a blanket first round ban is a lazy way to do it but it still seems the main argument against it is "I want my turn"

Yes correct .... "I Want my Turn" ... wah wah sooky sooky wah wah

Everyone was up in arms about the Pies getting Naicos and Brions getting the Ashcroft boys but .... it would be totally ok if it was their team .... its why the system needs a huge overhaul

The Father-Son-Daughter system needs to go as do Academies .... make the draft fair & equitable across the board .... you finish last you get 1st pick ...... you finish 16th you get 3rd pick ..... you finish 4th but want a player in the top 5 then trade up

Teams now have to make sure that their list management team and their talent identifiers are top notch

So Carlton miss out on Cody Walker but they may get a Dougie Cochrane or another gun ... and if they want to prise Walker away from the team that drafted him down the track then they need to make themselves attractive enough for him to want yo go there and cough up a decent return ....... same rules across the board for every other club

Oh ... what about the romance ... think about the romance that will disappear .... seriously some supporters need to harden up .... as do some mummy boy players

 

[Sarcoidevo]

yeah, sure no probs

2021 - Sam Darcy pick 2
2021 - Nick Daicos pick 4
2022 - Will Ashcroft pick 2
2022 - Jaspa Fletcher pick 12
2022 - Max Michalanney pick 17
2023 - Jordan Croft - pick 15
2024 - Levi Ashcroft pick 5

2023 also had Will McCabe to Hawks for pick 19 but i didn't include him.

And on top of that .... throw in Academy picks .... its a joke

Time to get rid of both

 

[Lore]

If that's what you took from that, sure.

Last gets pick 1. First gets pick 18. That's the whole point.

There are many ways to build a list. Hawthorn offloaded guys like Hay, Thompson, Croad (sorta) back in the early to mid 2000s and built the core of their threepeat team via the draft. Then added some missing pieces via trades. Then they went down a different path and added O'Meara, Tom Mitchell, Wingard etc. who were established. And more recently they let those guys go (not for any huge return) and went young again.

You can improve your list without tanking or bottoming out to get top 5 picks, but in order to have a 5 pick you really should finish in the bottom 5. I don't think that is controversial.

I get what you’re saying but hawthorns drafting in that early 2000s period wasn’t just pure draft hand and what they got from trades, so probably not a great example.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

The difference is the players coming out of QLD and NSW are arguably better than those from VIC/SA/WA. Whereas, before the academies, they were far behind. There's no pathways up here and the academies are the reason why they have caught up

And Brisbane have Sam Marshall who was a Brisbane Academy product who played for and was developed by the Sandringham Dragons in Victoria ..... I mean how the fk that does work?

 

[Obeanie1]

I am aware of distribution payments not being equal. But those distribution payments all come from TV money as you said. The fact is they aren't equal is because if they were teams like St Kilda and North Melbourne would become footnotes in history and the Northern clubs would be down at least 2. So then the TV rights money would be significantly less and everyone except a very small number of clubs would be worse off.

So the Northern clubs do get extra money from TV rights generated from all games and spend it on academies only they benefit directly from.

And the Lions and Swans double dip with father son PLUS academy access. Suns and GWS don't have father sons yet at all.

The AFL non-equalisation policies in full swing.

What a mess.

 

[GenericUsername202]

And Brisbane have Sam Marshall who was a Brisbane Academy product who played for and was developed by the Sandringham Dragons in Victoria ..... I mean how the fk that does work?

1. Sam Marshall is a Queenslander. 2. He moved to Victoria in 2022. It's not he spent his whole life in Vic, he was only there for 2 years because there isn't an elite football program up here that matches what Vic offers right now. So how does it work? It works exactly right. Brisbane recruited a Queenslander who wouldn't have been able to play at the highest level if it wasn't for the academy, which also set up his scholarship in Victoria. This is what the academy was made for.

 

[Iva Bigun]

Personally I think the FS rule is one of the great things about our game and should stay as is.

Taking away the academy’s for the Nthrn states is also laughable when you have VIC clubs playing the majority of their games at home and with minimal travel. If you want to make the system equal then do so, you can’t have clubs playing 16 games at home plus finals and somehow call it fair.

 

[Elixuh]

And Brisbane have Sam Marshall who was a Brisbane Academy product who played for and was developed by the Sandringham Dragons in Victoria ..... I mean how the fk that does work?

Thank you for raising this important point.

Queensland doesn't have the elite talent pathways that Vic has. Even our academy is subpar compared with the talent pathways in Vic.

Sam joined our academy when he was 12. He moved to Victoria for 2 years prior to his draft.

 

[Scotland]

I get what you’re saying but hawthorns drafting in that early 2000s period wasn’t just pure draft hand and what they got from trades, so probably not a great example.

What was it then?

2001 was Croad for 1 (Hodge) and they also got Mitchell out of it but anyone could've picked him.
2004 Roughed (2) and Franklin (5) then Lewis 7 via trade.
2005 Bailey and Birchall from trades, Ellis and Dowler 3 and 6.

They had a clear strategy under Clarko from 2004. It worked for them and has failed for others, same as Geelong and Sydney have always tried to avoid bottoming out which has worked for them and has failed for others.

Drafting, trading, list management are inexact sciences. WC get shitcanned at every opportunity because we won 1 game this year. Adelaide haven't played finals since 2017 and no one was raving about them last year or the year before or the year before that. They had a great year and finished top now everyone is lauding their list management of the last 5 years or so. That's footy.

 

[FrankDrebin]

What was it then?

2001 was Croad for 1 (Hodge) and they also got Mitchell out of it but anyone could've picked him.
2004 Roughed (2) and Franklin (5) then Lewis 7 via trade.
2005 Bailey and Birchall from trades, Ellis and Dowler 3 and 6.

They had a clear strategy under Clarko from 2004. It worked for them and has failed for others, same as Geelong and Sydney have always tried to avoid bottoming out which has worked for them and has failed for others.

Drafting, trading, list management are inexact sciences. WC get shitcanned at every opportunity because we won 1 game this year. Adelaide haven't played finals since 2017 and no one was raving about them last year or the year before or the year before that. They had a great year and finished top now everyone is lauding their list management of the last 5 years or so. That's footy.

I think he may have been insinuating priority picks played a considerable part in the Hawthorn dynasty.

 

[Scotland]

Adelaide seemed to be able to access young talent and move up the ladder from bottom to the minor premiership. Perhaps St Kilda's drafting just hasn't been up to scratch. Instead of the sob story, maybe look inwards.

Adelaide drafted Thilthorpe pick 2 (pick 1 without JUH NGA), traded for Rankine with pick 5 and drafted Rachele at 6. It helps. Getting Dawson for a future first that ended up being pick 18 is an absolute steal. He was good at the Swans and in his first year at the Crows but his last 3 seasons have been elite. Sometimes you need a bit of luck to go your way with these things.

 

[Lore]

I think he may have been insinuating priority picks played a considerable part in the Hawthorn dynasty.

Ditto Geelong, same era. Not surprising they were dominant 10 years later, but also they weren’t the only clubs that had priority picks, they just got more out of it than others by selecting wisely.

 

[Elixuh]

Adelaide drafted Thilthorpe pick 2 (pick 1 without JUH NGA), traded for Rankine with pick 5 and drafted Rachele at 6. It helps. Getting Dawson for a future first that ended up being pick 18 is an absolute steal. He was good at the Swans and in his first year at the Crows but his last 3 seasons have been elite. Sometimes you need a bit of luck to go your way with these things.

Luck is a poor way of saying good list management.

 

[Atomboy]

Adelaide seemed to be able to access young talent and move up the ladder from bottom to the minor premiership. Perhaps St Kilda's drafting just hasn't been up to scratch. Instead of the sob story, maybe look inwards.

After finishing 18th, 15th, 14th, 10th and 15th.

So the answer to draft inequities is again to tank aggressively and not win games ?.

 

[Scotland]

I think he may have been insinuating priority picks played a considerable part in the Hawthorn dynasty.

Absolutely they did.

Of the good sides of the 2000s and 2010s many of them benefited from double dipping at the pointy end of the draft. WC, St Kilda, Collingwood, Hawthorn, WB all did. But then so did Richmond, Melbourne and Carlton who did nothing with it.

We finished third last in 2001 and had picks 3, 6, 22. We finished second last in 2008 and had picks 2, 18, 20. This year who knows what our second natural pick in the draft will be.

 

[Elixuh]

After finishing 18th, 15th, 14th, 10th and 15th.

So the answer to draft inequities is again to tank aggressively and not win games ?.

Are you saying Adelaide were tanking?

Instead of building fantasy narratives why not accept that Adelaide went through a rebuild with good list management and went up the ladder. Like many teams before them.

 

[Atomboy]

Are you saying Adelaide were tanking?

Instead of building fantasy narratives why not accept that Adelaide went through a rebuild with good list management and went up the ladder. Like many teams before them.

No, but that’s clearly what we would have to do.

Thankfully it’s all looking like a moot point and AFL HQ will clean it all up. One of the few things they’ve gotten right.

 

[Wild Bill]

Easy to say everything is cooked but only certain rules will get changed and that will allow certain clubs to be stronger than others still.

1st round should be 18 picks plus compo. Outside that academies and father son bidding starts in the 2nd round.

 

[longdonkey]

1st round should be 18 picks plus compo. Outside that academies and father son bidding starts in the 2nd round.

Why is free agency compo less of a rort than academies - Answer you benefit from them.

 

[Scotland]

Luck is a poor way of saying good list management.

Good list management by West Coast to win 5 games in 2001 instead of 2002 or 2003.

Good list management by West Coast to have Elliot Yeo, Jamie Cripps and Josh Kennedy born in WA and drafted to clubs going nowhere at the time.

Good list management by West Coast to finish last in 2023 the year Harley Reid was on offer. Especially beating WB in Rd 23 to jump up to 17th only for North to win in Rd 24. Exceptional planning.

If you can't see the role luck plays in list management you have rose coloured glasses on. This board is littered with threads full of fans squealing like stuck pigs about players leaving and how screwed they are then more often than not it works out in the long term and all of a sudden it was genius list management.

 

[Scotland]

At some point St Kilda has to turn the concept of salary cap room into on-field value though.

Overpaying a player is bad, but it's less bad than only paying 95% of your cap forever, and part of the reason that they have finished in those positions for the last 5 years is precisely because they were paying 95% (or less, because of front-loading) of the cap.

Sure, but there has to be a strategy behind it. Adding a 26 year old TDK and a 29 year old Liam Ryan are win now moves. No different to Brisbane adding Oscar Allen, except Brisbane have won 14-17 games every year for the last 7 and St Kilda are coming off back to back 12ths.

 

[Elixuh]

Good list management by West Coast to win 5 games in 2001 instead of 2002 or 2003.

Good list management by West Coast to have Elliot Yeo, Jamie Cripps and Josh Kennedy born in WA and drafted to clubs going nowhere at the time.

Good list management by West Coast to finish last in 2023 the year Harley Reid was on offer. Especially beating WB in Rd 23 to jump up to 17th only for North to win in Rd 24. Exceptional planning.

If you can't see the role luck plays in list management you have rose coloured glasses on. This board is littered with threads full of fans squealing like stuck pigs about players leaving and how screwed they are then more often than not it works out in the long term and all of a sudden it was genius list management.

I'm not saying luck doesn't play a role. But your explanation of Adelaide's list management as based on luck is overstating the luck component. They've managed their list very well. And recruited well.