News AFL overhauls Academy and FS bid matching, discussing draft lockout

[threenewpadlocks]

Sure, but there has to be a strategy behind it. Adding a 26 year old TDK and a 29 year old Liam Ryan are win now moves. No different to Brisbane adding Oscar Allen, except Brisbane have won 14-17 games every year for the last 7 and St Kilda are coming off back to back 12ths.

I think it's fair, to be fair to St Kilda, and say that they're going down this path because going down the other paths are impossible.

So St Kilda rings up Oscar Allen, Sam Draper, whatever.

"Does Oscar/Sam have any interest in playing for the Saints?"
"No."
"What if we paid him half a million more for 2 more years than the best contract offer he's got otherwise"
"Still no".

"Does Tom have any interest in playing for the Saints"
"Yes, but his preference is to remain at Carlton. If your contracts are identical, he'll remain at Carlton. If your contract is only slightly better, he'll remain at Carlton".
"Thanks. Will an 8th year do it?"
"Yes".

We have to assume this is the discussion here.

The broader issue is that St Kilda is an such an undesirable market that even overpaying player can't get them.

(and maybe that's their fault, maybe it isn't, given North's and Dogs' pre-Beveridge similar struggles I'm sensing a Docklands small club tenant structural disadvantage).

The foundational logic of a salary cap as an equalisation measure relies on the presumption that a player is motivated to earn as much money as possible, and does not have any other motivaiton upon negotiating a contract, such as the motivation actively not for St Kilda, for whatever reason.

 

[Wild Bill]

Why is free agency compo less of a rort than academies - Answer you benefit from them.

The compo needs to outlined and not an AFL secret. If players leave - every club benefits from compensation.

If butters walked next year you would be ok to get nothing?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

The AFL is unlikely to volunteer money for an academy when they can get clubs to pay for it with a bit of strategic inequality… also because they’re more effective when tied to a club (which is why we have academies instead of scholarships in the first place).

The AFL needs development pathways in Northern States and academies are doing good work there. I dont buy the "we fund these our own" thing anyway but even if I did, they'd step in to make sure the current pathways continue.

 

[Scotland]

I'm not saying luck doesn't play a role. But your explanation of Adelaide's list management as based on luck is overstating the luck component. They've managed their list very well. And recruited well.

That's not what I said and you know it. Needing a bit of luck is not based on luck. Our 2016 and 2017 first round picks played 21 and 22 games respectively. I don't think it's bad list management that one retired due to concussion, but the other not developing as planned sure that's on us.

Good list management is sticking to your guns if Sydney wanted more than a first for Dawson (I don't remember those specific discussions as reported). But he still had to be available. Geelong have been kissed on the dick by the footy gods with Dangerfield and Cameron being free agents in 2015 and 2020 respectively. Yes they've created an environment that attracts players but the timing and quality of those two players becoming available was perfect. We're one meaningless North win away from having McKercher or Zane Duursma or whoever instead of Harley Reid.

 

[Elixuh]

The AFL needs development pathways in Northern States and academies are doing good work there. I dont buy the "we fund these our own" thing anyway but even if I did, they'd step in to make sure the current pathways continue.

The easiest thing would be to create a separate line item in the afls financial reporting for northern academy distributions.

There’s a reason the Swans academy is called the ‘QBE’ Swans academy. Private sponsorship money funds.

 

[Scotland]

The AFL needs development pathways in Northern States and academies are doing good work there. I dont buy the "we fund these our own" thing anyway but even if I did, they'd step in to make sure the current pathways continue.

The entire premise of the thread is the pathways to the elite level. Do you think anyone would care if the AFL gave each of the 4 northern academies $10m a year and the players just went into the draft?

There are 18 clubs and 14 of them don't manage junior development. The draft model in lieu of zones and U/19s etc. was adopted almost 40 years ago. Sam Lalor played for Bacchus Marsh, then GWV Rebels in the Talent League and Vic Country in the national champs, then went into the draft and was picked by Richmond #1. Great. And if it was this year he might end up in WA instead. Great. If he was in NSW or Qld he would be off limits to 14 clubs. Not great.

 

[Scotland]

The easiest thing would be to create a separate line item in the afls financial reporting for northern academy distributions.

There’s a reason the Swans academy is called the ‘QBE’ Swans academy. Private sponsorship money funds.

Who paid for the $340m redevelopment of GMBHA Stadium?

 

[Elixuh]

Who paid for the $340m redevelopment of GMBHA Stadium?

Just make your point I’m here for a good time not a long time

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

The easiest thing would be to create a separate line item in the afls financial reporting for northern academy distributions.

There’s a reason the Swans academy is called the ‘QBE’ Swans academy. Private sponsorship money funds.

Do you think that private sponsorship would be decreased if Swans cant access the first round? Legit question

 

[Sarcoidevo]

1. Sam Marshall is a Queenslander. 2. He moved to Victoria in 2022. It's not he spent his whole life in Vic, he was only there for 2 years because there isn't an elite football program up here that matches what Vic offers right now. So how does it work? It works exactly right. Brisbane recruited a Queenslander who wouldn't have been able to play at the highest level if it wasn't for the academy, which also set up his scholarship in Victoria. This is what the academy was made for.

Yes ... to only benefit you currently

Plenty of Qld products have made it without Brisbane Academy support (est. 2010)

Jason Dunstall (Coorparoo)
Nick Riewoldt (Southport/Broadbeach)
Michael Voss (Morningside)
Jason Akermanis (Mayne)
Gavin Crosisca (Western Districts)
Dayne Beams (Southport)
Sam Gilbert (Southport)
Charlie Dixon (Redland/Cairns)
Marcus Ashcroft (Surfers Paradise / Southport)
David Armitage (Morningside)
Scott McIvor (Wilston Grange)
Danny Dickfos (Windsor Zillmere)
Mitch Hahn (Zillmere Eagles)
David Hale (Broadbeach)
Daniel Merrett (Southport)
Che Cockatoo-Collins (Cairns)
Steven Lawrence (Southport)
Clark Keating (Surfers Paradise)
Brett Voss (Morningside)
Brad Miller (Mt. Gravatt)
Mal Michael (Kenmore / Morningside)
Ben Hudson (PalmBeach-Currumbin / Mt. Gravatt)
Robert Copeland (Strathpine / Northern Eagles)
Kurt Tippett (Southport)
Jarrod Harbrow (South Cairns)
Tom Hickey (Morningside)
Charlie Dixon (Redland / Cairns)

I understand the idea of an Academy to fast track potential players but they should be available to all clubs ..... not just Brisbane, Gold Coast, Swans, GWS because the players want to be closer to their families.

If the AFL want to continue to grow the game in QLD & NSW then they should take full control of the Academy set-up in those states ... as far as I am aware Brisbane & Gold Coast split the cost with AFL Queensland to run the academies so the AFL should take full control ..... its not like they dont make enough money to do that ... at the cost of a few million a year

Also for young players .... if you want to play the highest level AFL and be paid a lot of money to do it then you should be prepared to go anywhere to achieve that dream ..... as sportspeople in the US do and soccer players all over the world ...... Aussies love to think we are hard and tough but in reality we are a bunch of Mummy Boys who don't want to leave home to achieve a dream ... at least some are anyway

 

[Elixuh]

Do you think that private sponsorship would be decreased if Swans cant access the first round? Legit question

No idea. It’s more about the allocation.

Didn’t a swans fan say they’ve only had one player from their academy outside the first round who has played a meaningful number of games?

If you’re putting your private sponsorship funds into talent production which you don’t benefit from and clubs like Freo are putting it into their premiership program then you actually have to think about what’s most worthwhile.

 

[Atomboy]

Sure, but there has to be a strategy behind it. Adding a 26 year old TDK and a 29 year old Liam Ryan are win now moves. No different to Brisbane adding Oscar Allen, except Brisbane have won 14-17 games every year for the last 7 and St Kilda are coming off back to back 12ths.

Hardly a win now strategy, it’s about using no, or later picks, on FA’s and cheapish pickups while retaining 1st RDP’s.

Which is also kind of pointless when you can’t use your 1st RDP on best talent and/or it gets pushed back 4-6 places.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

No idea. It’s more about the allocation.

Didn’t a swans fan say they’ve only had one player from their academy outside the first round who has played a meaningful number of games?

If you’re putting your private sponsorship funds into talent production which you don’t benefit from and clubs like Freo are putting it into their premiership program then you actually have to think about what’s most worthwhile.

This just comes back to the same point of Northern Clubs getting more hand outs from the AFL than others which in turn means the AFL is funding it anyway. They can represent how the funds are used however they want, doesnt change the total amount.

Regardless, I'm happy for the AFL to skimp an extra 500k off of Freo, WC, Adelaide, Port, Pies, Richmond, Essendon, Geelong and Carlton funding to go to Northern development pathways if it's such an issue. Easy price to pay for better draft equity.

 

[Elixuh]

Sure, but there has to be a strategy behind it. Adding a 26 year old TDK and a 29 year old Liam Ryan are win now moves. No different to Brisbane adding Oscar Allen, except Brisbane have won 14-17 games every year for the last 7 and St Kilda are coming off back to back 12ths.

It’s a mixture of them having to plug gaps in their list demographic where they should have A graders from the draft + having to spend the cap (which is a byproduct of having gaps in your list).

 

[Elixuh]

This just comes back to the same point of Northern Clubs getting more hand outs from the AFL than others which in turn means the AFL is funding it anyway. They can represent how the funds are used however they want, doesnt change the total amount.

Regardless, I'm happy for the AFL to skimp an extra 500k off of Freo, WC, Adelaide, Port, Pies, Richmond, Essendon, Geelong and Carlton funding to go to Northern development pathways if it's such an issue. Easy price to pay for better draft equity.

I don’t know enough about the detail of the distributions to know. I mean why do North as a Melbourne based club only get a few mil less than Brisbane? Why do gws and gcs get much more. Why do the swans get much less.

It doesn’t really add up to some clear conclusion that the AFL are funding them.

We also pay an extortionate amount of money to stadiums Queensland for use of the Gabba. Prior to moving to Springfield when we also trained there it was approx $2.5m for the decrepit training facilities.

 

[Atomboy]

This will be the draft that finally forces change.

Suns getting 2 top 5 players and Bris getting 1.

The premier could be taking a pick in the 30s. The whole thing is cooked and needs to be blown up.

You mean like last year when the best draft prospect went to the Premier for a handful of beans ?.

 

[Adnico26Parker]

No idea. It’s more about the allocation.

Didn’t a swans fan say they’ve only had one player from their academy outside the first round who has played a meaningful number of games?

If you’re putting your private sponsorship funds into talent production which you don’t benefit from and clubs like Freo are putting it into their premiership program then you actually have to think about what’s most worthwhile.

Errol Gulden

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I don’t know enough about the detail of the distributions to know. I mean why do North as a Melbourne based club only get a few mil less than Brisbane? Why do gws and gcs get much more. Why do the swans get much less.

It doesn’t really add up to some clear conclusion that the AFL are funding them.

We also pay an extortionate amount of money to stadiums Queensland for use of the Gabba. Prior to moving to Springfield when we also trained there it was approx $2.5m for the decrepit training facilities.

I also dont know the detail on those distributions but dont all those teams allocations make sense in how you've said it? North cant stand on their own (a different discussion) so get almost as much as Brisbane and Sydney. GWS and GCs get much more because otherwise they wouldnt exist while Brisbane and Sydney are established long enough to not need a leg up?

I dont know enough about stadium costs but my stance is the same and I've been trying to avoid discussing this point haha because I dont think it's relevant anyway. if it's an issue, wipe some more off the wealthier clubs who have more cash than they know what to do with and give it specifically to fund the academies

 

[Scotland]

Brisbane had the third highest revenue of all clubs in 2024. WC $92.65m, Bris $92.52m. Hardly Struggle St.

WC received $15m from the AFL and had footy dept expenses of $36m.
Bris received $30m from the AFL and had footy dept expenses of $37m.

Maybe Brisbane could live within their means. North make less from sponsorship and less from membership and match day returns and still get $4m less from the AFL.

 

[Elixuh]

I also dont know the detail on those distributions but dont all those teams allocations make sense in how you've said it? North cant stand on their own (a different discussion) so get almost as much as Brisbane and Sydney. GWS and GCs get much more because otherwise they wouldnt exist while Brisbane and Sydney are established long enough to not need a leg up?

I dont know enough about stadium costs but my stance is the same and I've been trying to avoid discussing this point haha because I dont think it's relevant anyway. if it's an issue, wipe some more off the wealthier clubs who have more cash than they know what to do with and give it specifically to fund the academies

But then Collingwood gets more than a lot of club and is the second biggest club outside wce who get the smallest.

The distributions make little sense, so drawing conclusions as to what the afl funds is difficult.

All I’ve commented on is what actually happens, which is the lions directly fund our academy via private sponsorship.

 

[longdonkey]

The compo needs to outlined and not an AFL secret. If players leave - every club benefits from compensation.

If butters walked next year you would be ok to get nothing?

No I wouldn't, however just the same as Academies the free agent compo takes down every other clubs pick by one. Why is this an issue if its an Academy player but not a free agent?

In my opinion the draft pick should come out of the gaining clubs picks. But that won't happen.

 

[Scotland]

No I wouldn't, however just the same as Academies the free agent compo takes down every other clubs pick by one. Why is this an issue if its an Academy player but not a free agent?

In my opinion the draft pick should come out of the gaining clubs picks. But that won't happen.

FA picks are created out of thin air and added to the draft order. If Allen leaves then we will have picks 1 and 2 before anyone gets to pick. But we have to lose Allen to get the pick. The rules being what they are give much better compo to the team that finishes last than they do to the team that finishes first, and it's contract based so there is no discretion on the perceived quality of the player. If Allen decides to sign for a bit less we can then be given nominal pick 19 instead which would be the same if we won 20 games instead of 1.

Bids are just manipulating the draft order. Last year picks 5, 9, 13, 25 were bids. With bids, compo picks and priority picks the first round was 27 picks long but then the second was only 13, so the first pick of the third round was 41 which in a perfect world would be 37. Brisbane with 5 and 25 didn't gain any extra picks, they just picked way earlier in the draft than their ladder position would dictate. We had 3 and 30 in 16th, they had 5 and 25 in 1st. It's a dud system. If the best player in the country was tied to WC via F/S or NGA rules would we use pick 1 or 2? Of course not. So with picks 1 and 2 we would effectively have picks 1, 2, 3. As above, dud system.

 

[Wild Bill]

You mean like last year when the best draft prospect went to the Premier for a handful of beans ?.

Yep - the knocked some nails in the change coffin.

 

[Wild Bill]

No I wouldn't, however just the same as Academies the free agent compo takes down every other clubs pick by one. Why is this an issue if its an Academy player but not a free agent?

In my opinion the draft pick should come out of the gaining clubs picks. But that won't happen.

Hadn’t thought of that - and I like it but what happens if Butters goes to the premier? Pick 18? Maybe it should be they lose the pick and the team get a pick after their 1st?

So this year Port would get 7. That’s so much better than 18.

 

[Yoda_]

example A

WCE bid on Zeke Uwland (Gold Coast Academy) at pick 1

Gold Coast now need to satisfy WCE with a trade for the rights to buy Zeke. Live trade in play, players in play.

Gold Coast offer Sam Flanders + future 1st for pick 1

Richmond at pick 4 bid on Dylan Patterson

Gold Coast offer current first (pick 9) + Alex Davies + future 3rd



I dunno. Would make teams with multiple players pay overs and possibly even miss out or overlook players they have developed.