News AFL overhauls Academy and FS bid matching, discussing draft lockout

[mpal6]

You can't expect to pay with a packet of used Twisties though as you've done the last two times and this year. I'm all for keeping the academy, it's needed for a number of reasons, but it has to be fair value for elite talent. I'd say the same thing if it involved Swans players and our academy. Keep it but pay what is fair under market conditions not some arbitrary point curve which is horrid.

It SHOULD be very tough to match a talent in the top 5 let alone in the top 1-3. Your club will need to make a call, do you want the talent or do you want to keep x (lets say a Bailey or a Hipwood, etc).

All the new system is saying is the club needs to pay the exactl equivalent of what lets say pick 3 is in a live sale. Think what Carlton gave up last year for the rights to Jagga Smith, it's doable but it's a heavy price.

It's fair to say we don't want them go for a packet of used twisties.
Feels like it's gone way off the other way now, only time will tell.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

It's fair to say we don't want them go for a packet of used twisties.
Feels like it's gone way off the other way now, only time will tell.

Yes you do, don't claim otherwise when you want the system to remain the same. You are trying to want to match top 5 talents with selections in the 20's or whatever. That's not even close to being 'reasonable'. I get why you'd want it, and I'd take the rort as a Sydney fan too, but it's not right and you know it.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Yes you do, don't claim otherwise when you want the system to remain the same. You are trying to want to match top 5 talents with selections in the 20's or whatever. That's not even close to being 'reasonable'. I get why you'd want it, and I'd take the rort as a Sydney fan too, but it's not right and you know it.

Brisbane seem to think they can get a top 5 pick in this draft while playing in a Grand Final, trading in Jordan Ridley and trading out Callum Ah Chee. I'll ignore the FA's moving as there is no draft impact.

That is AFTER they've made the points harder to get.

Any idea the current points system is not completely inadequate and broken is factually wrong.

 

[Tom14]

Brisbane seem to think they can get a top 5 pick in this draft while playing in a Grand Final, trading in Jordan Ridley and trading out Callum Ah Chee. I'll ignore the FA's moving as there is no draft impact.

That is AFTER they've made the points harder to get.

Any idea the current points system is not completely inadequate and broken is factually wrong.

The lions are just a plucky little team that tries hard. Sad that people want to dunk on us getting ONE nice thing

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Brisbane seem to think they can get a top 5 pick in this draft while playing in a Grand Final, trading in Jordan Ridley and trading out Callum Ah Chee. I'll ignore the FA's moving as there is no draft impact.

That is AFTER they've made the points harder to get.

Any idea the current points system is not completely inadequate and broken is factually wrong.

Yep I mean you know my thoughts all for keeping academies and prime access to top talents BUT there needs to be a payment that’s worth it.

Look at what Jagga Smith cost last year that should be what these cost- that was picks 10&14. If Bris had to come up with that for the access to Ashcroft many would say okay a bit under but that’s about right on market value

 

[Stamos]

Yep I mean you know my thoughts all for keeping academies and prime access to top talents BUT there needs to be a payment that’s worth it.

Look at what Jagga Smith cost last year that should be what these cost- that was picks 10&14. If Bris had to come up with that for the access to Ashcroft many would say okay a bit under but that’s about right on market value

But there's a difference between the way Carlton were able to trade with a willing West Coast during trade period, and a club being put over a barrel when you either don't know when a bid is going to come (ie in trade week), or live trading during draft night.

That's why restrictions are bad. It will force bad trades and/or restrict trades, which will negatively affect the market.

Just set the DVI correctly to ensure a fair price is paid.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

But there's a difference between the way Carlton were able to trade with a willing West Coast during trade period, and a club being put over a barrel when you either don't know when a bid is going to come (ie in trade week), or live trading during draft night.

That's why restrictions are bad. It will force bad trades and/or restrict trades, which will negatively affect the market.

Just set the DVI correctly to ensure a fair price is paid.

This does exactly what you are saying. All this does is makes it HARD to access top 5 picks if you are in the 8…it should be that way. You still have the access just have to pay for it. They have tried the DVI and it’s been rorted like no tomorrow the limit of two picks inside a r1 bid is a good idea

 

[Maybe Tomorrow]

Will be interesting watching Gold coast trying to get in their players while also pushing to get 6, 13 and 16 into next year as much as possible.

An extra bite of the cherry from this shit show

The Suns don't have any highly rated kids next year so don't need to push points into next year.

 

[Stamos]

This does exactly what you are saying. All this does is makes it HARD to access top 5 picks if you are in the 8…it should be that way. You still have the access just have to pay for it. They have tried the DVI and it’s been rorted like no tomorrow the limit of two picks inside a r1 bid is a good idea

It shouldn't be hard though. It should just be that you must pay fairly. There is a big difference between the two.
And if you have to pay fairly, then it becomes hard to get multiple highly rated players, which is fair.

The DVI has been rorted because the scale was so out of kilter. They fixed this for this year (or at very least, made a an effort to fix it with massive changes), but we haven't even been able to see it in action.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

It shouldn't be hard though. It should just be that you must pay fairly. There is a big difference between the two.
And if you have to pay fairly, then it becomes hard to get multiple highly rated players, which is fair.

The DVI has been rorted because the scale was so out of kilter. They fixed this for this year (or at very least, made a an effort to fix it with massive changes), but we haven't even been able to see it in action.

Problem is it didn't do far enough this year why did Brisbane not care, they had points in spare for this year, ie. it's nowhere near enough a change, it was a start, but top 5 picks should be doubled not just increased. You should have to have the first pick within the top 10 to effectively match regardless whether it's a dvi or the new system

 

[Stamos]

Problem is it didn't do far enough this year why did Brisbane not care, they had points in spare for this year, ie. it's nowhere near enough a change, it was a start, but top 5 picks should be doubled not just increased. You should have to have the first pick within the top 10 to effectively match regardless whether it's a dvi or the new system

Right now, after trading more picks into this year, Brisbane have enough points to just match a bid at #5.
That's if they lose this week, and before all the FA compo picks are taken into account (which will mean they have less points and won't be able to match such a high bid). And that will wipe out their entire draft hand.

The changes did plenty.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Right now, after trading more picks into this year, Brisbane have enough points to just match a bid at #5.
That's if they lose this week, and before all the FA compo picks are taken into account (which will mean they have less points and won't be able to match such a high bid). And that will wipe out their entire draft hand.

The changes did plenty.

Exactly they barely had to give up anything to get this access, and they should have to give up more when the bid is higher than pick 5

 

[Stamos]

Exactly they barely had to give up anything to get this access, and they should have to give up more when the bid is higher than pick 5

You're misreading, it will be a lot more than 'barely anything', and they still won't have enough to match a bid at 5 as it currently stands.
They will have to give up more, let alone if the bid comes earlier.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

You're misreading, it will be a lot more than 'barely anything', and they still won't have enough to match a bid at 5 as it currently stands.
They will have to give up more, let alone if the bid comes earlier.

It should be ultra hard, you should have to give up two firsts if you nearly win the flag for a top 5 talent

 

[Stamos]

It should be ultra hard, you should have to give up two firsts if you nearly win the flag for a top 5 talent

I think there is a significant difference between "ultra hard" and finding a 2nd 1st rounder (or equivalent) to pay fairly.

 

[briztoon]

Will be interesting watching Gold coast trying to get in their players while also pushing to get 6, 13 and 16 into next year as much as possible.

An extra bite of the cherry from this shit show

Why are Gold Coast trying to push their picks in to the future?

I believe you're just making up a b.s. rumour, to drive a sh!t narrative.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I think there is a significant difference between "ultra hard" and finding a 2nd 1st rounder (or equivalent) to pay fairly.

Too bad if you can't then you miss out. It's only going to really impact sides that are contending or in the top 4, everyone else will be able to split picks or trade up and down a few spots easily. Maybe they give a Bailey or a Hipwood up for instance

 

[briztoon]

Of course they are allowed access and have some access but the overwhelming amount of development is done via the state squad and WAFL team. The kids only have so much time in the day. Robinson is now out of school but it's split even further when they are at school and the PSA schools are demanding they spend time with their program

You all have just complained so much about how Northern academies are the only ones doing any development and providing any pathways in the state I assumed all time is spent being developed by their AFL club. Do they not, are their actually other pathways for these kids in Northern states?

I haven't complained about anything.

You made an assumption post about northern academy kids training with the AFL team.

I corrected that assumption, explaining that is not the case for the large majority of academy kids, that most train with the academy. The few that do train and play with the AFL team or VFL team, do so on the same level as the kids in the national academy training with Victorian, South Australian and West Australian based teams, or CTL kids playing VFL after the national championships have finished.

Northern academy guidelines are still set by the AFL, so we play by their rules.

The main difference is that the Academies don't have any teams to play after finishing playing against the CTL teams, so all the kids go back to their QAFL clubs after this.

The northern clubs fund the travel and accommodation of the academy teams when they travel to play in the academy series and against the CTL teams.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

Too bad if you can't then you miss out. It's only going to really impact sides that are contending or in the top 4, everyone else will be able to split picks or trade up and down a few spots easily. Maybe they give a Bailey or a Hipwood up for instance

Its going to make it very difficult for Port Adelaide and Carlton to pick up Cochrane and Walker in 2026. Which one of those two clubs are looking like contending or top 4? Carlton and Port somehow need to trade in a significant chunk of the first round selections to gather the required points for their players.

If there are three highly rated kids, then three sides are going to need to find 1/3 of the first round selections. Or one club misses out on 1 kid, because two others have grabbed the firsts already?

Oh and someone signed a free agent from the wooden spooner, so now your picks are worth even less.

 

[bluebaggerjuls]

One thing I’ll say is it’s a bit unfair to port Adelaide these changes being brought in so suddenly. They don’t have a first this year to trade into next year and will need picks in 2027 for zemes and salopek so won’t be able to pull picks from 2027 to help match for dougie. They probably don’t trade this years pick if they had known what changes would happen

 

[Sheepey]

That's the crux of the issue - draft is not equal in the first place when vic kids can stay home or refuse to get drafted elsewhere etc. I understand the utopian view of draft being equal for all, but it never was or never will be. The noise wasn't there when it was footy heartland clubs were benefiting - either via kids staying home or either via players getting traded back from GWS, GC to Victoria etc. It was considered good for the game.

Once these fringe clubs who were previously chained to watching high draft picks go back home but now have started getting their own draftees in their own backyard, the sky's falling argument has taken hold of the narrative.

Oh you can have an academy, but you can't have something that's too good that at times it outperforms the Victorian mothership.

Except the measure doesn't take away any of those benefits. You still have access to a player that has less of a flight risk, you just have to pay a fair amount for them.

Those same flight risks that you articulate also apply to WA and SA-based clubs, and yet they don't have academies like the Northern clubs. Hell, it also applies to Victorian clubs. We just had to pay the most expensive contract in history to prevent NWM from returning to Adelaide. Melbourne had to spend well overs to keep Pickett from going back to Perth. You're not unique in that regard, yet only Brisbane and a few others have benefits to offset it.

Incidentally, I would also challenge your view that it's geography and not onfield results that is the main factor in players leaving a club. How many players do you have wanting to leave Brisbane right now? I can only think of Ah Chee in recent years that is a best 22 player seeking to leave. I don't see Vic Metro boy Logan Morris desperate to leave at the moment despite the so-called flight risk with Melbourne-based recruits. Meanwhile you have Allen, Draper and Ridley all looking to join, while the big Victorian-based clubs Essendon and Carlton are facing several players wanting to leave their club largely due to their poor on field results.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Except the measure doesn't take away any of those benefits. You still have access to a player that has less of a flight risk, you just have to pay a fair amount for them.

Those same flight risks that you articulate also apply to WA and SA-based clubs, and yet they don't have academies like the Northern clubs. Hell, it also applies to Victorian clubs. We just had to pay the most expensive contract in history to prevent NWM from returning to Adelaide. Melbourne had to spend well overs to keep Pickett. You're not unique in that regard, yet only Brisbane and a few others have benefits to offset it.

Incidentally, I would also challenge your view that it's geography and not onfield results that is the main factor in players leaving a club. How many players do you have wanting to leave Brisbane right now? I can only think of Ah Chee in recent years that is a best 22 player seeking to leave. I don't see Vic Metro boy Logan Morris desperate to leave at the moment despite the so-called flight risk with Melbourne-based recruits. Meanwhile big Victorian-based clubs Essendon and Carlton are facing several players wanting to leave their club largely due to their poor on field results.

The difference is 60% - 70% of the players you draft are local talent.

For most non vic clubs it would be closer to 20-30%.

But everything else you say is true.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Its going to make it very difficult for Port Adelaide and Carlton to pick up Cochrane and Walker in 2026. Which one of those two clubs are looking like contending or top 4? Carlton and Port somehow need to trade in a significant chunk of the first round selections to gather the required points for their players.

If there are three highly rated kids, then three sides are going to need to find 1/3 of the first round selections. Or one club misses out on 1 kid, because two others have grabbed the firsts already?

Oh and someone signed a free agent from the wooden spooner, so now your picks are worth even less.

No it won't Port have next years first lets say for arguments sake pick 4-6, then their future 1 (which they could flip to Tassie for a bounty), and their 2028 first in their pocket. It actually won't affect clubs outside the 8. It will affect clubs contending where it makes it ultra hard but it's meant to be. Port and Carlton will have plenty of capital. Carlton can easily send one of their picks this year to next.

Clubs and mine included forced the AFL's hand in this, if there wasn't an underlining thing of rorting the draft to the nth degree we wouldn't have to put this in place.

 

[GenericUsername202]

lol clubs will tell their acadamy/NGA/father son products to tank their final year so they'll pick them up for cheaper. If anything, these new rules will encourage clubs to bend the rules even more.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

lol clubs will tell their acadamy/NGA/father son products to tank their final year so they'll pick them up for cheaper. If anything, these new rules will encourage clubs to bend the rules even more.

If that's the market value that's fine, unfortunately and it's not just your club, but we are all doing it okay....we are getting top tier talents for 2 cents in the dollar. It's completely wrecking what was a great event the draft. This year will be farcical