News AFL overhauls Academy and FS bid matching, discussing draft lockout

[briztoon]

Walker can't "nominate" until his draft year, whatever are you on about?

Cody Walker commits to Carlton

Father-son prospect Cody Walker has made the commitment to his boyhood club.

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[threenewpadlocks]

lol, we get two MCG games a year if we're lucky. None of the non Vic clubs get any type blockbuster fixture. It's a national competition, share them around nationally. Why should Port argue for the Bulldogs, when they get nothing out of it.

Cool, you just don't have literal disadvantages in your home finals and home home and away games like those three teams do.

You're not going to win any argument about how the overall operation of the AFL disadvantages any club where the bottom three is clearly North, Saints and Dogs.

 

[Elixuh]

Youre arguing with a Brisbane fan.

Yes, WB, North and SK and to an extent, Melbourne, are completely ignored by the afl.

They DGAF about SA or WA teams either, why cant they have academies to combat the go home factor?

The system is designed to prevent 4 teams from requiring a hard rebuild as extended periods at the bottom for any of these teams really hurt the $$$.

WB has been one of the teams to benefit the most from f/s and has access to NGA. What more do they need do you think?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

WB has been one of the teams to benefit the most from f/s and has access to NGA. What more do they need do you think?

We just had the player who came third in the Brownlow force his way out of the club (not yet a free agent) after we were the ones to successfully identify and develop him, and received piss all compensation for it, in a way that simply wouldn't happen to any club other than the small Melbourne clubs. That more than cancels out the fact that we got Lachie Hunter or whoever (rated second round prospect, drafted third round).

How exactly does the overall environment help the Dogs?

I'd have traded away all of the F/S and NGA advantages three times over if we were able to get the other advantages on average that five or six clubs in Melbourne get such as playing 10+ games a year at the MCG, public holiday fixtures, free agents wanting to play for your club, etc. etc. etc.

 

[Elixuh]

We just had the player who came third in the Brownlow force his way out of the club (not yet a free agent) after we were the ones to successfully identify and develop him, and received piss all compensation for it, in a way that simply wouldn't happen to any club other than the small Melbourne clubs. That more than cancels out the fact that we got Lachie Hunter or whoever (rated second round prospect, drafted third round).

How exactly does the overall environment help the Dogs?

I'd have traded away all of the F/S and NGA advantages three times over if we were able to get the other advantages on average that five or six clubs in Melbourne get such as playing 10+ games a year at the MCG, public holiday fixtures, free agents wanting to play for your club, etc. etc. etc.

The small Melbourne clubs primary issue is being small Melbourne clubs in a saturated market and not having the other advantages that those in your direct market have.

I sympathise about the Bailey smith loss and the circumstances around that.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

The small Melbourne clubs primary issue is being small Melbourne clubs in a saturated market and not having the other advantages that those in your direct market have.

I sympathise about the Bailey smith loss and the circumstances around that.

But it's by design. How can the small Melbourne clubs get any bigger when they don't get given a fair share of public holiday blockbuster fixtures or home games against other big Melbourne clubs that make them seem more interesting? Look up how many times Western Bulldogs and Carlton have played each other twice in a season in the last 25 years, for example.

Every single, for instance, Anzac Day is played exclusively between two clubs with 90+% of the seasons also including a return Essendon and Collingwood match when compared to the fact that those three clubs would only have a home Collingwood or Essendon fewer than every second season (despite a fair draw meaning you should host a given team 11/17 or 65% of the time).

This creates financial and club reputation disadvantages that, when they materialise on the margins - everything from the quality of the assistant coaches you recruit, to the fact that you have to host home finals at your opposiiton's home ground where they have more fans in the ground (us vs. Hawks last year), create a far greater disadvantage than the expected value of once off jumping a round or two in the draft.

Hell, we arguably missed out on finals this year because we are at a such a blockbuster/MCG/financial disadvantage we had to take our Collingwood home game, that we rarely get, to their home stadium because we're at such financial disadvantage otherwise.

So when non-Victorian fans get all smug and put us all in the one basket in terms of advantages/disadvantages we have every right to point out what's wrong with that.

 

[Mat Mann]

lol, we get two MCG games a year if we're lucky. None of the non Vic clubs get any type blockbuster fixture. It's a national competition, share them around nationally. Why should Port argue for the Bulldogs, when they get nothing out of it.

Like St Kilda North and Dogs then

Interstate teams have had their teams televised locally for over 2 decades, you get double-up games vs your fellow state team.

Vic teams aren't on FTA at all unless it's in the "blockbuster" slot

You think you're being ripped off, but you've actually got the preferential deal, unless you're one of the big 4 in Vic you can see as little as 5-7 games a year on FTA, try selling that little coverage to sponsors, players, and agents.

WB has been one of the teams to benefit the most from f/s and has access to NGA. What more do they need do you think?

so just like Brisbane and Sydney then...........

But it's by design. How can the small Melbourne clubs get any bigger when they don't get given a fair share of public holiday blockbuster fixtures or home games against other big Melbourne clubs that make them seem more interesting? Look up how many times Western Bulldogs and Carlton have played each other twice in a season in the last 25 years, for example.

Every single, for instance, Anzac Day is played exclusively between two clubs with 90+% of the seasons also including a return Essendon and Collingwood match when compared to the fact that those three clubs would only have a home Collingwood or Essendon fewer than every second season (despite a fair draw meaning you should host a given team 11/17 or 65% of the time).

This creates financial and club reputation disadvantages that, when they materialise on the margins - everything from the quality of the assistant coaches you recruit, to the fact that you have to host home finals at your opposiiton's home ground where they have more fans in the ground (us vs. Hawks last year), create a far greater disadvantage than the expected value of once off jumping a round or two in the draft.

Hell, we arguably missed out on finals this year because we are at a such a blockbuster/MCG/financial disadvantage we had to take our Collingwood home game, that we rarely get, to their home stadium because we're at such financial disadvantage otherwise.

So when non-Victorian fans get all smug and put us all in the one basket in terms of advantages/disadvantages we have every right to point out what's wrong with that.

Saints haven't doubled up vs the Pies for over 20 years

I wouldn't expect too much common sense from our northern friends, too smug with their recent form to have a rational discussion

 

[stavro#4]

If Butters leaves Port, its going to be to a top side, who are going to be providing Port with some late first round picks. Now when you are stuck with having to match a top 5 player with less picks, Port is going to have to find a low ranked club that can provide them with an earlier pick for the few late ones (which are also bound to be pushed out by band 1 free agency compensation).

And we're now saying the cost for being able to get in to an Academy kid is having to trade out a top 5 player in the comp? And we're thinking that "fair value"?

The cost to get an academy kid that goes top 5 is completely fair. Not sure why you are choosing to link butters to it. But if your only option is to trade butters for the currency to acquire those kids or don’t select them, then so be it.

For too long clubs have had their hands in both pots of immediately contending and building for the future because of these father sons and academies. Whilst others have been struggling to even sniff the 8 because of it.

You should be willing to trade out a gun for top tier draft currency or you are rebuilding and have the picks required anyway.

 

[Elixuh]

so just like Brisbane and Sydney then...........

Good morning mat Mann, I’m not sure what your point is, but terrific to hear from you.

 

[briztoon]

For too long clubs have had their hands in both pots of immediately contending and building for the future because of these father sons and academies. Whilst others have been struggling to even sniff the 8 because of it.

How many clubs have genuinely been in the premiership window while getting top end father sons?

Same for clubs getting top end academy kids?

And which clubs have been kept out of the 8 because of it?

 

[stavro#4]

How many clubs have genuinely been in the premiership window while getting top end father sons?

Same for clubs getting top end academy kids?

And which clubs have been kept out of the 8 because of it?

You are kidding right?

Brisbane & Sydney have been absolutely blessed whilst in absolute contention.

The dogs played finals and then drafted Jamarra before playing in a granny

GWS played in a granny and then drafted Tom Green in the same years draft.

Collingwood played in a granny and then drafted Quaynor

And none of that includes the ability to double dip by trading out first round picks for future years or players + crap currency to match.

 

[Elixuh]

You are kidding right?

Brisbane & Sydney have been absolutely blessed whilst in absolute contention.

The dogs played finals and then drafted Jamarra before playing in a granny

GWS played in a granny and then drafted Tom Green in the same years draft.

Collingwood played in a granny and then drafted Quaynor

And none of that includes the ability to double dip by trading out first round picks for future years or players + crap currency to match.

Ladder position isn’t relevant when every clubs now has academies. The relevance is what is paid to get the talent. They’re making changes to fix it.

I know the Saints like to harp on about the past and how unfair everything is but it’s not really productive at a point.

 

[stavro#4]

Ladder position isn’t relevant when every clubs now has academies. The relevance is what is paid to get the talent. They’re making changes to fix it.

I know the Saints like to harp on about the past and how unfair everything is but it’s not really productive at a point.

That wasn’t the question I answered. I was asked who was gifted talent whilst in contention.

I answered.

FACT is that you don’t get Ashcroft’s or Marshall & Fletcher without trading out talent in your best 22 of your current grand final sides.

 

[Elixuh]

FACT is that you don’t get Ashcroft’s or Marshall & Fletcher without trading out talent in your best 22 of your current grand final sides.

I’m devastated to hear this FACT.

How exciting was it thought when Will won a norm coming off an ACL in game 30. Really great for the comp.

 

[stavro#4]

I’m devastated to hear this FACT.

How exciting was it thought when Will won a norm coming off an ACL in game 30. Really great for the comp.

It will be better seeing clubs rise who haven’t had the rightful access to the talent they deserved.

 

[Elixuh]

It will be better seeing clubs rise who haven’t had the rightful access to the talent they deserved.

It’ll never end. You’ll be back on this block when a top 5 academy prospects tells clubs they don’t want to leave their state and we get them for a bargain. You’ll also conveniently have no knowledge of Vic prospects having done this routine for decades and decades.

The important thing is that Queensland footy is in great health. Long may it continue for the good of the comp.

 

[Bostonian]

Too bad if you can't then you miss out. It's only going to really impact sides that are contending or in the top 4, everyone else will be able to split picks or trade up and down a few spots easily. Maybe they give a Bailey or a Hipwood up for instance

So the league needs to scrap all academies then as there's no benefit to clubs putting a cent towards then to develop elite talent.

 

[stavro#4]

It’ll never end. You’ll be back on this block when a top 5 academy prospects tells clubs they don’t want to leave their state and we get them for a bargain. You’ll also conveniently have no knowledge of Vic prospects having done this routine for decades and decades.

The important thing is that Queensland footy is in great health. Long may it continue for the good of the comp.

That’s some good copium there.

I look forward to a player not going where they are drafted.

 

[briztoon]

You are kidding right?

No. I feel you missed the intent of my post.

Brisbane & Sydney have been absolutely blessed whilst in absolute contention.

Literally the only team to benefit from all this has been Brisbane. And it’s been a huge slice of luck that it’s all occurred at the same time.

The dogs played finals and then drafted Jamarra before playing in a granny.

Not a father son. And he’s been their only high end academy kid in a decade.

GWS played in a granny and then drafted Tom Green in the same years draft.

Again not a father son. And he’s almost been their only high end academy kid in a decade.

Collingwood played in a granny and then drafted Quaynor.

And again not a father son. And he’s been their only highish academy kid in a decade.

And none of that includes the ability to double dip by trading out first round picks for future years or players + crap currency to match.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Pretty weak effort from the afl , there 110% should be a black out for the first 4 picks in the draft should be going to the bottom 4 clubs

 

[Bostonian]

Incredible how clubs with possible future top tier players are complaining about missing out on those players.

It's not as if you're missing out on top tier talent completely. If your pick 5 or whatever can't match a pick 1 talent .... you still get to add that pick 5 talent to your list. Yet people are carrying on that by missing out of a potentially future tied player, they miss out on all talent altogether. Wild, isn't it.

One player the club has invested in for years.

The other player has zero connection to the club.

It's not like for like.

 

[Lore]

Pretty weak effort from the afl , there 110% should be a black out for the first 4 picks in the draft should be going to the bottom 4 clubs

So the bottom four clubs aren’t allowed to trade those picks?

 

[stavro#4]

No. I feel you missed the intent of my post.

Literally the only team to benefit from all this has been Brisbane. And it’s been a huge slice of luck that it’s all occurred at the same time.

Not a father son. And he’s been their only high end academy kid in a decade.

Again not a father son. And he’s almost been their only high end academy kid in a decade.

And again not a father son. And he’s been their only highish academy kid in a decade.

“How many clubs have genuinely been in the premiership window while getting top end father sons?

Same for clubs getting top end academy kids?”


So I answered the question.

Father son or academy. It’s the same Rort.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

The cost to get an academy kid that goes top 5 is completely fair. Not sure why you are choosing to link butters to it. But if your only option is to trade butters for the currency to acquire those kids or don’t select them, then so be it.

For too long clubs have had their hands in both pots of immediately contending and building for the future because of these father sons and academies. Whilst others have been struggling to even sniff the 8 because of it.

You should be willing to trade out a gun for top tier draft currency or you are rebuilding and have the picks required anyway.

I just pointed out that trading out a player like Zak Butters doesn't give the currency to bid on a top of the draft Academy Prospect.

 

[stavro#4]

I just pointed out that trading out a player like Zak Butters doesn't give the currency to bid on a top of the draft Academy Prospect.

In what world does Zak Butters not give you the currency to match a potential bid on Dougie?