News AFL overhauls Academy and FS bid matching, discussing draft lockout

[.Shotties.]

40 years for the swans. How much longer?

I dunno, probably when there's a reliable stream of home city / state players available to the Swans as there are for teams in traditional states. You want an equal comp, don't you? Doesn't seem particularly equal when some teams have consistent access to home state players and others don't and have to pay over to retain or recruit.

 

[sr36]

Hahaha, you ******* idiot. What happened to "high end?" You've even got two players in there who weren't academy picks and available in the open draft.

Mills, Heeney, Gulden and Blakey is a pretty bloody good haul though.

But with Moore and two Daicoses I'm not complaining.

 

[.Shotties.]

Wouldn't that be every non Victorian team? I am comfortable with academies being limited to teams in non football states (like it is now).

No. Its only be recently that (I think) Port and Freo have had majority interstate players for a few years.

 

[Caligo]

No. Its only be recently that (I think) Port and Freo have had majority interstate players for a few years.

Fair enough! I just assumed they were still predominantly out of state. That is what happens when you make assumptions!

 

[.Shotties.]

Mills, Heeney, Gulden and Blakey is a pretty bloody good haul though.

Absolutely. Enough to make up for decades of having very limited access to elite talent from Sydney?

You think any Victorian team would go through 30 years of having one go-home recruit, access to one first round home staye (Let alone home city) recruit without having to reach in exchange for getting an academy in the rich footballing equivalent of Newcastle, Tweed Heads and North Sydney?

 

[Caligo]

Absolutely. Enough to make up for decades of having very limited access to elite talent from Sydney?

You think any Victorian team would go through 30 years of having one go-home recruit, access to one first round home staye (Let alone home city) recruit without having to reach in exchange for getting an academy in the rich footballing equivalent of Newcastle, Tweed Heads and North Sydney?

Losing Dawson for not much was awful, and I was really angry about how Adelaide did that, but have Sydney lost that much talent over the last 10-20 years?

I support the academies because I want to grow the game (particularly in Sydney where I live) and because the other 3 northern teams have been mercilessly pillaged, but I don't think Sydney has really had that same problem have they?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Try calming down before you post then.

That would be Blakey who got a bid at 8?

What happened to 1/3 of the first 22 being from "high end picks"? Your argument keeps shifting.

I guess at least you're not including one of the open rookie picks and the West Australian now.

No one has said this.

Blakey mills heeney all slid to varying extents due to the knowledge they were academy tied. It was legitimately debatable if mills would be no1 his draft year and Heeney was valued a top 5 pick by many watchers, same with blakey. Gulden also slid due to the same circumstance. Hawks went early on cambell thought which was where he was rated.

You are trying to get tied down in semantics because you’re struggling with the bigger picture. Yes heeney mills cambell blakey we’re all top picks the. Throw in gulden a second rounder. Then throw in wicks which is 6 of your b22. Quite a significant leg up.

Let’s take away these massive benefits you receive to high end talent, and see if the “bloods culture” is a real thing, or just simply a team being handed benefits to succeed.

 

[.Shotties.]

Losing Dawson for not much was awful, and I was really angry about how Adelaide did that, but have Sydney lost that much talent over the last 10-20 years?

I support the academies because I want to grow the game (particularly in Sydney where I live) and because the other 3 northern teams have been mercilessly pillaged, but I don't think Sydney has really had that same problem have they?

Dawson, Membrey, Mitchell (No, he was not kicked out. He had a contract in front of him and a near-complete record of games over the previous two years), Jetta, Nankervis, and soon to be Stephens were all those who left after turning down contracts.

There was also, Biggs, Rohan, Hewett, Aliir, Darcy Cameron and Newman who were all premiership players or at the very least, consistent contributors over a number of years. However, these were all mutual or players not returning to their home state. Could even throw in Hannebery if you really wanted to scrape the barrel.

 

[.Shotties.]

You are trying to get tied down in semantics

Being categorically wrong multiple times isn't semantics.

Hawks went early on cambell thought which was where he was rated.

This is mutually exclusive.

Let’s take away these massive benefits you receive to high end talent, and see if the “bloods culture” is a real thing, or just simply a team being handed benefits to succeed.

Sure thing, lets see if Geelong can go 30 years without access to Geelong-area players and building their list from mostly Queenslanders or Welshmen and see how good they are.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Being categorically wrong multiple times isn't semantics.

This is mutually exclusive.

Sure thing, lets see if Geelong can go 30 years without access to Geelong-area players and building their list from mostly Queenslanders or Welshmen and see how good they are.

Yes mate, because Sydney has such an issue with players leaving Sydney due to the go home factor. Talk about making things up. Your club has hardly lost anyone the past ten years and you are one of the biggest player poachers in the league.

 

[.Shotties.]

Yes mate, because Sydney has such an issue with players leaving Sydney due to the go home factor. Talk about making things up. Your club has hardly lost anyone the past ten years and you are one of the biggest player poachers in the league.

We've lost multiple premiership players, All-Australians and captains of other clubs in the last 5-6 years who turned down contracts with the club, let alone decade.

Your info is, funnily enough, about a decade out of date

 

[Benno77]

Imagine the hawks who play to win getting pushed back from pick 3 to pick 4 because of FA compo.

Would hurt.

Imagine the same Hawks who took both Roughead AND Hodge as priority picks.

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[Benno77]

An some of the Roo's fans are greedy as FK...

"We desrve more than Sanders. Give us pick 2 & 3 and Sanders. An give us the suns / gws salary dump trade. We deserve it, fk the rest. Watch the afl fans cry as we get all this help, fk em we deserve it".

"An we will play victims and blame our whole s**t history on the HFC and point at there racisim sage with our now coach.

No one will dare mention our cultre re: Barry Cable and Tarryn Thomas. Or the greatest Roo's killer the Carey affair that really divided the club".

No Roos you dont deserve the help, but yes you need help. Accept it graciously. One concession like the rest. Sanders or a pp, your choice.

An please stop blaming everyone else for your own s**t.

Suns and Giants got more as start up clubs. An north fans are begging like there a new club. No one else has ever got what you Roo's fans are demanding in one year.

No, just NO.

Cannot help but agree with you. What North are requesting is appropriate to their situation. However, they can't expect it all in the one season.

FYI, they aren't asking for pick 3. They're expecting that to be the compo for McKay leaving for the Bombers. There is no rule twisting there.

They'll have to draft Sanders if they want him. Fair enough.

Trading for GC's pick 4 (bumped down to 5) would be the best outcome for the club.

While I can understand why opposition supporters would be upset, how fair has it been to sit back while top-tier teams have enjoyed taking father-son selections in the 3rd & 4th rounds?

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[Caligo]

Dawson, Membrey, Mitchell (No, he was not kicked out. He had a contract in front of him and a near-complete record of games over the previous two years), Jetta, Nankervis, and soon to be Stephens were all those who left after turning down contracts.

There was also, Biggs, Rohan, Hewett, Aliir, Darcy Cameron and Newman who were all premiership players or at the very least, consistent contributors over a number of years. However, these were all mutual or players not returning to their home state. Could even throw in Hannebery if you really wanted to scrape the barrel.

That list sounds like less than most clubs over the same period. And certainly far less than what you brought in over the journey. Franklin alone is worth more than every single person you listed put together (at the time they were traded).

We have already had the Mitchell argument so no point rehashing that.

Membrey did make me laugh though.

 

[.Shotties.]

That list sounds like less than most clubs over the same period.

Oh please, list what most clubs have lost since the 2014 trade period.

And certainly far less than what you brought in over the journey. Franklin alone is worth more than every single person you listed put together (at the time they were traded).

Those are just the players we've lost AFTER Franklin came in. I don't know what your definition of 'the journey' is, but we certainly haven't brought in multiple AAs, team captains or anything of the sort.

We have already had the Mitchell argument so no point rehashing that.

Yes, you claim with no evidence he was pushed out, I provide actual data showing he wasn't.

Membrey did make me laugh though.

That would be the Membrey who refused a contract, then St Kilda refused to trade for before the Swans delisted him so he could make the switch straight across for his mental health and to avoid the month-long wait and stress of the PSD?

Why did that make you laugh?

 

[sydney_gws]

I think the best way to uncompromise is limit to 2 picks, unless your natural 1st and 2nd round picks don't cover it, then you can use 3.
So for Ashcroft, lions picks 15 33 is about 1800 points, so they can use 3 picks. They probably trade 15,51 for 23,24 and match with 23 24 33 as an example. If that is 2600 points , they could trade 33 for 40 ,2024r3 and effectively get
Ashcroft,2023r3 for 15,33, 51. Still a good deal.
But they wouldn't have had the currency for both Dunkley and Fletcher unless they traded out another player.
For Nick Daicos, Collingwood 2,20 is 3200 points, so enough to cover pick 1 bid.
They have about 800 points more than is needed,
So they could trade 2 for 8,2022r1 with another club. If that club gets pick 8 following year
They have traded 2,20 for Daicos, 8.
Still a very good deal.

 

[Caligo]

That would be the Membrey who refused a contract, then St Kilda refused to trade for before the Swans delisted him so he could make the switch straight across for his mental health and to avoid the month-long wait and stress of the PSD?

Why did that make you laugh?

The idea that membrey was a good player whose loss was seriously damaging made me laugh.

That list still isn't close to Franklin, and obviously you can add Tippett from the year before on top.

Sydney haven't suffered from player drain in any meaningful way. Unlike all three of the other northern clubs.

 

[rocker_oz33]

Hard to get a normal draft these days .

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

Cannot help but agree with you. What North are requesting is appropriate to their situation. However, they can't expect it all in the one season.

FYI, they aren't asking for pick 3. They're expecting that to be the compo for McKay leaving for the Bombers. There is no rule twisting there.

They'll have to draft Sanders if they want him. Fair enough.

Trading for GC's pick 4 (bumped down to 5) would be the best outcome for the club.

While I can understand why opposition supporters would be upset, how fair has it been to sit back while top-tier teams have enjoyed taking father-son selections in the 3rd & 4th rounds?

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In saying all that, some Roo fans are gracious.

Too be fair roos have had their share of F/S.

With the help roos have gotten now you guys should be on the right track.

I am surprised they didn’t give you some bonus cap space for development coaches.

 

[.Shotties.]

The idea that membrey was a good player whose loss was seriously damaging made me laugh.

Yes, a 2 goal a game forward who plays 20 games a year on average is generally considered a good player. Anyway, you obviously thought he was delisted by the Swans and that's why it made you laugh.

I'm not sure why you added in 'whose loss was seriously damaging' either. I didn't say it.

That list still isn't close to Franklin, and obviously you can add Tippett from the year before on top.

Sydney haven't suffered from player drain in any meaningful way. Unlike all three of the other northern clubs.

'Nuh uh'. Great counter.

 

[rocker_oz33]

The idea that membrey was a good player whose loss was seriously damaging made me laugh.

That list still isn't close to Franklin, and obviously you can add Tippett from the year before on top.

Sydney haven't suffered from player drain in any meaningful way. Unlike all three of the other northern clubs.

Swans have had one of the best academy programs for years .


Where I think every club should have one ..

 

[Obeanie1]

So what is the points value of the natural pick 19 end up?

Do all the compo picks and priority picks being handed out before it devalue its points too?

 

[FB19]

I dunno, probably when there's a reliable stream of home city / state players available to the Swans as there are for teams in traditional states. You want an equal comp, don't you? Doesn't seem particularly equal when some teams have consistent access to home state players and others don't and have to pay over to retain or recruit.

That doesn’t happen in a comp skewed as it is with 10 sides based in Victoria. So your answer is never just keep the academy system in place. Which I am ok with provided the bid matching rort is corrected to make everyone pay fair value for matching not junk picks. Under my proposal which allows only 2 picks to match, if Blakey was in the draft and bid at pick 8, your 23 and 31 isn’t quite enough so you would either have to trade up or let him go.

 

[Barrybran]

Now you can also add in...



First pick of R2 should be - pick 19
First pick of R2 will be - ≈ pick 27

I've sat back and kept my mouth shut as much of this has unfolded, but it's getting beyond ridiculous now. The amount of academy/priority/FA compo picks are making the draft complete & utter joke. West Coast needs as much new talent as possible to rejuvenate its list. What should be a pick in the late teens is now pushing towards pick thirty, and with each pick further back into the twenties it becomes more & more speculative.

Is it time to blow it up & start again?

 

[sr36]

Cannot help but agree with you. What North are requesting is appropriate to their situation. However, they can't expect it all in the one season.

FYI, they aren't asking for pick 3. They're expecting that to be the compo for McKay leaving for the Bombers. There is no rule twisting there.

They'll have to draft Sanders if they want him. Fair enough.

Trading for GC's pick 4 (bumped down to 5) would be the best outcome for the club.

While I can understand why opposition supporters would be upset, how fair has it been to sit back while top-tier teams have enjoyed taking father-son selections in the 3rd & 4th rounds?

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No it's ridiculous. Concessions should be about making an uncompetitive team competitive quicker. North already have a good group of talented kids. They'll be competitive with time. Throwing them more picks which they'll use to pick up more kids isn't going to speed up their climb, it's just going to make them better once they become competitive. Give them extra salary cap space and cash to splash to buy some mature Free Agents or trade some ohter mature players in - that'd speed up thier climb.