News AFL overhauls Academy and FS bid matching, discussing draft lockout

[RonnieRaven]

You don't actually have facts. It's just a whinge fest without any details other than the claim that it's not fair - poor us. Brisbane were a shambles a few years ago who couldn't retain anybody - got the right people in, turned themeselves around and have become a destination club competing for flags. Hopefully Freo management are more like Brisbane management and less excuse looking than you. You're right to be thinking of flags, because despite all the sooking about inequalities - it's a bloody even comp where all but a few clubs have played off in a Grand Final in the last 15 years - including your own.

You consume to much media to think all fortunes are based on management.
It was good management by the dogs to get libba, Darcy JUH Croft ??

 

[Maybe Tomorrow]

I want to know why Bowes was on such a ridiculous contract to begin with, or why GC couldn't smooth it out like Geelong did?

Bowes got his big contract at the point the Sun's were losing players. He was over paid for sure. Partly due to the 95% rule, someone has to get paid. Different people in charge now, who seem to have learned the lesson and won't overpay. Rankine being an example.

Bowes was offered the chance to smooth it out and stay, but declined. Swallow extended on less money. Both are fair enough IMO.

 

[RonnieRaven]

You don't actually have facts. It's just a whinge fest without any details other than the claim that it's not fair - poor us. Brisbane were a shambles a few years ago who couldn't retain anybody - got the right people in, turned themeselves around and have become a destination club competing for flags. Hopefully Freo management are more like Brisbane management and less excuse looking than you. You're right to be thinking of flags, because despite all the sooking about inequalities - it's a bloody even comp where all but a few clubs have played off in a Grand Final in the last 15 years - including your own.

If it was all management why did Roos get priority access like northern clubs??
They got super coach in they give them max funding shouldn’t that be enough?

 

[rye]

Since that time you speak of they have had priority picks father son picks and academy picks, it’s awesome what they are doing and would be still be good but those things haven’t hindered them.
I’ve also done the drive Brisbane to Melbourne and Adelaide to see the family.
I did the nullahbour in June to Perth from melb it’s not quite the same

if you consider brisbane's real emergence as a competitive club as beginning in 2019 then:

we had one priority pick at the beginning of the second round - this should be viewed in the light that our rebuild coincided with the expansion club drafts and we lost many promising players in one off season - including future all australians yeo and docherty

we had 0 father son picks on the list in 2019

for academy players we had only andrews and hipwood as best 22. andrews was a late draft pick that was not even rated particularly highly in his draft year and would have been a monty to end up at brisbane even without academy priority access.

brisbane largely built the foundations for current success by taking a broom through the off field administration, bringing in a coach from a highly successful hawthorn regime for stability and completely changing our drafting philosophy. the things you are complaining about were largely immaterial to brisbane turning their fortune around. fremantle could do all the things brisbane did to build the foundation for success. until then you will have to question why you bleed talent every off season.

 

[RonnieRaven]

if you consider brisbane's real emergence as a competitive club as beginning in 2019 then:

we had one priority pick at the beginning of the second round - this should be viewed in the light that our rebuild coincided with the expansion club drafts and we lost many promising players in one off season - including future all australians yeo and docherty

we had 0 father son picks on the list in 2019

for academy players we had only andrews and hipwood as best 22. andrews was a late draft pick that was not even rated particularly highly in his draft year and would have been a monty to end up at brisbane even without academy priority access.

brisbane largely built the foundations for current success by taking a broom through the off field administration, bringing in a coach from a highly successful hawthorn regime for stability and completely changing our drafting philosophy. the things you are complaining about were largely immaterial to brisbane turning their fortune around. fremantle could do all the things brisbane did to build the foundation for success. until then you will have to question why you bleed talent every off season.

I’ve stated the reasons we will over come them and be successful.
It doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
Only andrews the best defender in the league
We lost a future 2x Brownlow medalist
Only some clubs get help.
Help and support breeds confidence which breeds success

 

[Obeanie1]

Where do you recon the captain of Adelaide Crows came from? Don't pretend that Sydney don't have retention issues. Every club outside football states have retention issues.

All for removing the discounts (doing it periodically) but don't pretend clubs in these states don't have it harder for retention.

Do the Swans have problems attracting top talent to trade in?

No. They don't. In fact some of the biggest names have preferred the Swans over their own home town clubs of Melbourne.

Your points are not valid and easily refuted. History proves that.

 

[Obeanie1]

Calm the farm purely talking about retaining talent.
Unless your top 3 player for freo outside opportunities are limited
We can look at wa talent to leave each club to back up my statement if you want

Go for it.

But it has nothing to do with the Eagles being bigger than Freo.

Which was your original point.

Eagles and Freo don't trade so we haven't poached anyone off Freo.

 

[kreglze]

The Academies were created to entice kids from non-footballing backgrounds into the game. It wasn't meant to be a recruitment zone.

Explain to me how Kalani White Qualifies?

I would say the academy is not just there to give non AFL folk a chance but as a junior system that just doesn't exist in the Northern states. There is no TAC. school footy or WAFL/SANFL Colts programs to give that elite level training and development to kids on the GC before the academies came along. White and Walter may still have become AFL players, but in Walter's case, may not have got to the level he finds himself at now, and players like Rogers or Graham may not have even made it at all.

I think their will be changes, but I don't think you can dismiss what it does based on a couple of father/sons that are scattered through the clubs.

 

[Upstart Swan]

I would say the academy is not just there to give non AFL folk a chance but as a junior system that just doesn't exist in the Northern states. There is no TAC. school Footy or WAFL/VFL Colts programs to give that elite level training and development to kids on the GC before the academies came along.

Stop making sense! This is not the thread for it.

 

[Caligo]

I’ve stated the reasons we will over come them and be successful.
It doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
Only andrews the best defender in the league
We lost a future 2x Brownlow medalist
Only some clubs get help.
Help and support breeds confidence which breeds success

You have received assistance from the AFL. The AFL gave you pick 2 for an average player and pick 19 and a best 22 midfielder for nothing.

Most clubs don't get two first rounders for free from the AFL administered GCS.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Do the Swans have problems attracting top talent to trade in?

No. They don't. In fact some of the biggest names have preferred the Swans over their own home town clubs of Melbourne.

Your points are not valid and easily refuted. History proves that.

Bar Bud we have barely got anyone lately actually. We’ve lost the bloke that’s captain of the Crows too.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Go for it.

But it has nothing to do with the Eagles being bigger than Freo.

Which was your original point.

Eagles and Freo don't trade so we haven't poached anyone off Freo.

Ok

 

[RonnieRaven]

You have received assistance from the AFL. The AFL gave you pick 2 for an average player and pick 19 and a best 22 midfielder for nothing.

Most clubs don't get two first rounders for free from the AFL administered GCS.

They weren’t free
Please use facts
your evidence is getting flakier

 

[sr36]

If it was all management why did Roos get priority access like northern clubs??
They got super coach in they give them max funding shouldn’t that be enough?

It's not all about mmt. Luck plays a part and yes there are some systemic advantages and disadvantages. But most of them are being grossly exaggerated. The AFL Comp is extremely even. For all the talk of the huge advantage of big Vic clubs, Carlton and Essendon have been two of only 4 clubs to not play in a granny over the last 15 years.

I do think the matching system needs to be updated to not give such a big advantage, but it's one of the few sporting comps in the world that actually goes out of its way to stop the comp being a financial ladder.

 

[RonnieRaven]

It's not all about mmt. Luck plays a part and yes there are some systemic advantages and disadvantages. But most of them are being grossly exaggerated. The AFL Comp is extremely even. For all the talk of the huge advantage of big Vic clubs, Carlton and Essendon have been two of only 4 clubs to not play in a granny over the last 15 years.

I do think the matching system needs to be updated to not give such a big advantage, but it's one of the few sporting comps in the world that actually goes out of its way to stop the comp being a financial ladder.

I’m only attacking the system and the organisation running it not the clubs that people support.
Since freo got a pick in year 7 of existence.
Eagles got priority access won a flag got more priority access won another flag.
Pies were in the grandfinal in 02,03 then got pick 2 priority in 2005. Win a flag in 2010
Pies get quaynor daicos boys win another flag in 23
That is no dig at the teams that’s awesome making the most of it but it shows continual inequity’s in the system

 

[sr36]

I’m only attacking the system and the organisation running it not the clubs that people support.
Since freo got a pick in year 7 of existence.
Eagles got priority access won a flag got more priority access won another flag.
Pies were in the grandfinal in 02,03 then got pick 2 priority in 2005. Win a flag in 2010
Pies get quaynor daicos boys win another flag in 23
That is no dig at the teams that’s awesome making the most of it but it shows continual inequity’s in the system

You're complaining about an ancient rule that was scrapped because it was a crap rule. If your expectation is that the AFL was to get equalisation perfect from the get go and never get it wrong then you're bound to be irritated. It's like expecting your players to never miss a goal

 

[jdstorm]

I reckon that still fits in the definition of corrupt

We are literally talking about codified nepotism. Thought that was obvious to all

 

[Obeanie1]

I’m only attacking the system and the organisation running it not the clubs that people support.
Since freo got a pick in year 7 of existence.
Eagles got priority access won a flag got more priority access won another flag.
Pies were in the grandfinal in 02,03 then got pick 2 priority in 2005. Win a flag in 2010
Pies get quaynor daicos boys win another flag in 23
That is no dig at the teams that’s awesome making the most of it but it shows continual inequity’s in the system

Eagles got a 2nd rounder after they finished last but only got pick 4 with the Suns concessions. Not to mention our 2nd sliding out past 30.

That was compensation for finishing last but not getting the picks every other club who finished last got.

Pick 4 and 30 versus pick 1 and 19.

So it wasn't a priority pick at all.

So what else would you get trading pick 1 for pick 4? And 19 for 30?

A fair bit more than a pick in the 20's.

 

[Obeanie1]

Bar Bud we have barely got anyone lately actually. We’ve lost the bloke that’s captain of the Crows too.

Grundy

Taylor Adams

McCarthy

James Jordan

Hamling

Tom Mitchell

Josh Kennedy - gun

Barry Hall

Tony Locket

Ted Richards

Rhys Shaw

Jason Ball

Darren Jolly

Shane Mumford

Nick Davis

Wayne Swass

Paul Williams

Mitch Morton

Marty Matner

 

[Caligo]

They weren’t free
Please use facts
your evidence is getting flakier

Pick 2 for the most average player in history is as free as you will ever get.

A best 22 player and a first rounder to go with him for a late second? Sign me up.

Gosh the AFL looked after you boys.

 

[Caligo]

We are literally talking about codified nepotism. Thought that was obvious to all

Father son isn't nepotism. Nepotism is getting an opportunity you wouldn't get if you weren't the kid of someone powerful. Any father son who is taken in the draft by matching a bid is by definition earning the opportunity to play afl football separate to the f/s system.

 

[jdstorm]

Father son isn't nepotism. Nepotism is getting an opportunity you wouldn't get if you weren't the kid of someone powerful. Any father son who is taken in the draft by matching a bid is by definition earning the opportunity to play afl football separate to the f/s system.

These players are going to clubs at a 20% discount so the afl is literally saying we will give you a former players kid for 80% of the cost of a regular draftee.

Then there is the whole youth development aspect of it where clubs are incentivised to put more coaching and resources into the kids of former 100 game players just in case they turn into a good player vs regular kids who as NGA players which can only be kept if they are not top 40 level.

It’s fun and makes a good entertainment product because people like having that family/legacy associated with clubs vs say if Nick Daicos was playing for North ect.

But it’s definitely nepotism

 

[RonnieRaven]

Pick 2 for the most average player in history is as free as you will ever get.

A best 22 player and a first rounder to go with him for a late second? Sign me up.

Gosh the AFL looked after you boys.

He cost us our first pick in the 2014 draft ( 13) we recieved suns first pick in the 2017 draft( 2) after we invested in him.
Yes we did very well in the trade but you’ve focused on 2 deals (hill) where we did well
i could give you a few pages of when freo was the on the receiving end of a bad trade.
I really hope your trolling and fishing me because any other mindset is a worry

 

[Caligo]

He cost us our first pick in the 2014 draft ( 13) we recieved suns first pick in the 2017 draft( 2) after we invested in him.
Yes we did very well in the trade but you’ve focused on 2 deals (hill) where we did well
i could give you a few pages of when freo was the on the receiving end of a bad trade.
I really hope your trolling and fishing me because any other mindset is a worry

Not sure what any of that meant but you got pick 2 for lachie weller and a 3rd rounder. You didn't send pick 13 or any first rounder back. The AFL just straight up gave you pick 2.

It was insane.

 

[Jirik13]

I want to know why Bowes was on such a ridiculous contract to begin with, or why GC couldn't smooth it out like Geelong did?

Backended 2x I believe due to cap pressure from other contracts and covid cap cut. The club offered Bowes to smooth out the contract but also told him there will be limited opportunity for him in the best 22. Players like Sexton, Swallow, Fiorini, Macpherson did smooth their contracts.