News AFL overhauls Academy and FS bid matching, discussing draft lockout

[danster168]

Ashcroft brothers and Fletcher are skewing your view on Brisbane's father son strike rate. After Brown we've never gained any father son benefit up until last year.

Brisbane Father son list
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Melbourne Father son list
View attachment 1863255

why are you sending me a screenshot of something I already know?
So actually it goes back further for Melbourne having only 1 afl standard father-son in 30 years.

Brisbane have had 3 in 1 year essentially if you include the next Ashcroft.

 

[danster168]

Changes to the system just as the Blues are due to benefit. But only after the Pies, Dogs, Suns, Lions have done their work. Nice.

Spot on. Changing the rules now only further disadvantages all of the other clubs. They should, but won't, give concessions to all the clubs that didn't get gifted elite players for doing stuff all. Geez, the dees would've won the flag with Ugle-Hagan or if we had Darcy Moote playing next to Steven May or Daicos' playing next to Oliver and Petracca.

such a joke of a system.

 

[Cameron_Jezza]

That's an option but I'd imagine it could be pretty difficult to re-enter the first round if you've already matched a first round bid and that's also assuming no one picks the player before your pick. So let's say Carlton match a bid for the first Camporeale brother at pick 8 and then trade back into the first round by securing pick 16. Now every club knows exactly what Carlton intends to do with that pick 16 and can use that against them. The club with pick 12 gets on the phone to Carlton and says we're drafting him unless you give us x, y and z for our pick 12. You see how this situation could get really out of hand on draft night and clubs end up overpaying massively?


Seems unfair huh? This is why it was so absurd that Collingwood and Geelong were two of the three clubs that were most outspoken about changes being needed to a bidding system that they greatly benefitted from. It's a kneejerk reaction to a draft anomaly but because no one was pushing back outside of the northern clubs, the AFL is bowing to the pressure and now there are going to be unintended victims of this new system which could include Carlton next year with the Camporeale brothers.

I think the 20% discount is reduced, probably to 5 or 10%. If it was 5%, I think the rule should be that for a 2nd father son, the 5% discount is replaced with 10% loading.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Spot on. Changing the rules now only further disadvantages all of the other clubs. They should, but won't, give concessions to all the clubs that didn't get gifted elite players for doing stuff all. Geez, the dees would've won the flag with Ugle-Hagan or if we had Darcy Moote playing next to Steven May or Daicos' playing next to Oliver and Petracca.

such a joke of a system.

Just schedule big changes for 2-3 years time. Clubs have already traded picks and put resources into players for next year.

The changes are needed. As a Carlton supporter the timing sucks though.

 

[mpal6]

why are you sending me a screenshot of something I already know?
So actually it goes back further for Melbourne having only 1 afl standard father-son in 30 years.

Brisbane have had 3 in 1 year essentially if you include the next Ashcroft.

If you knew already then you wouldn't be suggesting Brisbane Lions were building our list around father sons. After Brown, there hasn't been a quality one in last 20 years until 2022.

Like I said, we never had a good run until Ashcroft brothers + Fletcher came along last year. Ashcroft could easily be playing for Suns if Marcus Ashcroft stayed with Gold Coast in admin capacity.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Just schedule big changes for 2-3 years time. Clubs have already traded picks and put resources into players for next year.

The changes are needed. As a Carlton supporter the timing sucks though.

Won’t affect next year but you’d assume in 2 years the changes are in. It’s a good compromise

 

[ohmygewd]

I think the 20% discount is reduced, probably to 5 or 10%. If it was 5%, I think the rule should be that for a 2nd father son, the 5% discount is replaced with 10% loading.

Get rid of discounts altogether as this is one of the major issues with the current system as teams are not paying fair market value via the current DVI! If pick 1 is worth 3000pt then a team needs to match that at 3000pts not 2400pts - in fact, l'm of the view that you have a weighted loading depending on the pick range so it cost you more as a bidder.

It's that DVI that needs to be reviewed rather than limiting teams FS/NGA/Acad bids in the first round which just creates more issues and whinging.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Get rid of discounts altogether as this is one of the major issues with the current system as teams are not paying fair market value via the current DVI! If pick 1 is worth 3000pt then a team needs to match that at 3000pts not 2400pts - in fact, l'm of the view that you have a weighted loading depending on the pick range so it cost you more as a bidder.

It's that DVI that needs to be reviewed rather than limiting teams FS/NGA/Acad bids in the first round which just creates more issues and whinging.

Eventually discounts will go, but I'm assuming you are advocating for all the inequalities the other way being fixed? Lets start with where the Grand final is being played. I'm not against a reduction in discounts but this better be for all categories of players, and try and fix the issues that Melbourne sides have an advantage over non Melbourne sides too.

 

[Lore]

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Won’t affect next year but you’d assume in 2 years the changes are in. It’s a good compromise

Perfect compromise for us

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Perfect compromise for us

Not fussed you getting the Camporeale kids (hope I spelt that correctly). It will affect your academy one you'd assume, name is escaping me.

 

[Ash1337]

The first fix should be limiting the amount of access a team has to NGA or FS to Ladder position instead of limiting it to after the first 40 picks. It cost 2 teams at the bottom access to what could help them improve quickly.

 

[ohmygewd]

Eventually discounts will go, but I'm assuming you are advocating for all the inequalities the other way being fixed? Lets start with where the Grand final is being played. I'm not against a reduction in discounts but this better be for all categories of players, and try and fix the issues that Melbourne sides have an advantage over non Melbourne sides too.

Nah mate, l don't worry or whinge where the GF is being played although l am a Vic, in fact, l'd love for it to be shared around but you need at a bare minimum, 90K+ seat stadium to play the GF....then again l'd love a 36 round, 10min quarter draws to stop the inequalities of that as well....l'm in favour of a lottery system from 18th to 9th to stop tanking but you cannot take all the Vic bias from the comp as there are naturally 10 teams emanating from that state.

Discounts for all match bids was stupid in the first place (IMO) and like everything the AFL does, what seems like a great a idea turns out to be manipulated as that's what team do...try an manipulate every rule to its advantage to the point of where we are at the moment.

PS. I don't see a signifcant until 2025.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Despite what Gregg Swann says, it wasn't just Vic clubs who complained about the academy system, both WA clubs are very unhappy about it.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

How will that go down next year if both are bid on in the first round and Carlton lose one? Let's say Collingwood bid on the other Camporeale brother with the last pick in the first round and Carlton are unable to match...

Only one Campo Twin is projected to go in the first round (so I am led to believe)

Shouldn't be a problem for us

 

[Lore]

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Nah mate, l don't worry or whinge where the GF is being played although l am a Vic, in fact, l'd love for it to be shared around but you need at a bare minimum, 90K+ seat stadium to play the GF....then again l'd love a 36 round, 10min quarter draws to stop the inequalities of that as well....l'm in favour of a lottery system from 18th to 9th to stop tanking but you cannot take all the Vic bias from the comp as there are naturally 10 teams emanating from that state.

Discounts for all match bids was stupid in the first place (IMO) and like everything the AFL does, what seems like a great a idea turns out to be manipulated as that's what team do...try an manipulate every rule to its advantage to the point of where we are at the moment.

PS. I don't see a signifcant until 2025.

So keep all the biases but remove everything else…

Get rid of the compensation picks for FA it’s free agency you’ve had the player for enough. Start there.

The minute it’s 100% fair for all teams then we can completely remove discounts until that time it shouldn’t happen. The discount isn’t even the issue it’s the curve

 

[Sonny Hayes]

So keep all the biases but remove everything else…

Get rid of the compensation picks for FA it’s free agency you’ve had the player for enough. Start there.

The minute it’s 100% fair for all teams then we can completely remove discounts until that time it shouldn’t happen. The discount isn’t even the issue it’s the curve

why the discount doesn’t even make sense? You are already getting priority access to these players, why would you get a discount? That should be the first and easiest step to fixing this.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

why the discount doesn’t even make sense? You are already getting priority access to these players, why would you get a discount? That should be the first and easiest step to fixing this.

We put the money in and right now there’s still inequality in the markets when there isn’t all for discounts to be reduced.

 

[Sonny Hayes]

We put the money in and right now there’s still inequality in the markets when there isn’t all for discounts to be reduced.

and you are still getting priority access to players that other clubs don’t get, you don’t need the discount. Expecting them to pay ‘fair’ value is not asking much.

If you are worried about the money, let the AFL fund them, give up access to these players and everyone wins. The game grows in those areas and the draft isn’t as compromised.

 

[Maybe Tomorrow]

Only one Campo Twin is projected to go in the first round (so I am led to believe)

Shouldn't be a problem for us

Will Graham was being talked about as a 3rd round pick at the start of the year. Some on the draft board weren't even mentioning him in their top 50's.

 

[danster168]

If you knew already then you wouldn't be suggesting Brisbane Lions were building our list around father sons. After Brown, there hasn't been a quality one in last 20 years until 2022.

Like I said, we never had a good run until Ashcroft brothers + Fletcher came along last year. Ashcroft could easily be playing for Suns if Marcus Ashcroft stayed with Gold Coast in admin capacity.

I'm not talking about the years prior, I'm talking about the last few years. You've had 3 elite youngsters for free. You would've known 3 years ago that you had multiple midfielders come in, so that helps your list strategy. Massively kissed and a massive asterisk on future results.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

and you are still getting priority access to players that other clubs don’t get, you don’t need the discount. Expecting them to pay ‘fair’ value is not asking much.

If you are worried about the money, let the AFL fund them, give up access to these players and everyone wins. The game grows in those areas and the draft isn’t as compromised.

They tried that before it was a catastrophic failure. If you remove some of the Vic Biases in the game all for these discounts etc going. Start with the home grand final for starters.

It’s the curve that’s the issue not the discounts.

 

[ohmygewd]

So keep all the biases but remove everything else…

Get rid of the compensation picks for FA it’s free agency you’ve had the player for enough. Start there.

The minute it’s 100% fair for all teams then we can completely remove discounts until that time it shouldn’t happen. The discount isn’t even the issue it’s the curve

I don't understand where you are coming from...what are the bias and remove everything else you are talking about?

FA's should be a seperate topic altogether!

Discounts and the curve go hand in hand...give me a valid reason why a club should receive a discount for an NGA/Acad/FS pick?

There is no 100% fair to all clubs because the minute a club is slightly impacted, they cry unfair.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Will Graham was being talked about as a 3rd round pick at the start of the year. Some on the draft board weren't even mentioning him in their top 50's.

Perhaps. But the AFL has already said it won't be bringing in any changes to the 2024 draft cause of future pick trades already being done. No need for Carlton to worry/fret about the Campo twins.