News AFL overhauls Academy and FS bid matching, discussing draft lockout

[longdonkey]

blame the system not the clubs mate

to be fair that was in response to an Essendon fan saying we shouldn't have access to an Indigenous/African American teenager who is a state basketballer because he's played football as a kid. The hypocrisy is breathtaking.

 

[briztoon]

How hard is it to just put fair practices around FS/Academies. Keep the systems, make them costly and move on.

Using Dan Annable as an example this year, make so if we want him, he is essentially the only one we can get (As we won't have the draft capital of a lower club) and the other academy products go into the draft.

That is already the case this year. We currently don't have the points to match a top 5/6 bid on Annable, depending on our finishing position.

We'll either take a deficit in to next years draft, or lose a player via trade for picks/points.

 

[Yoda_]

to be fair that was in response to an Essendon fan saying we shouldn't have access to an Indigenous/African American teenager who is a state basketballer because he's played football as a kid. The hypocrisy is breathtaking.

it could be worse and try and qualify an unqualified father/son as NGA eligible after his mandatory two year period was exhausted because said kids parents all of a sudden explored ancestry.com

 

[briztoon]

Academies do next to nothing to prevent talent drain into NSW and Qld.

Because they've only just started producing. Investments typically don't start producing right away. And now that they are, ya'll want to get rid of them.

The Lions haven't really benefitted from high end academy talent yet. Hipwood has been our highest bid on talent, back in 2015. Most of the rest of our academy players were bid on in the late second round, or 3rd round, or straight out drafted by ourselves anyway.

Marshall was our second, first round bid player a decade after Hipwood, and he was stolen by the APS system anyway, in Vics private school footy wars. Annable will be our first top end kid, and just as it looks like our academy might start producing first round kids on a regular basis, ya'll taking it away.

Got to keep those expansion clubs down, in their place. It's bad for the game if the VFL clubs are non competitive.

And the hubris on the West Coast board. Heyzues, Mary and Joseph, over there ya'll believe you have a birthright to be right up there with the Collingwood's of the AFL.

 

[briztoon]

How is father/sons rule a rort?

It is such a luck of the draw thing and there is no predictably about it, but to suggest that certain clubs are benefiting is just fanciful.

It’s not like the Lions have any father sons on the horizon and I have no issue with any club that would ever benefit provided they pay a fair price.

Ummmmmm.......


Yeah, we do. We still have more coming.

 

[Purple Suit]

Why are clubs funded?

Because most clubs income doesn't cover their expenditure.

Why do QLD clubs receive $31m?

It pays for the player TPP and off field soft cap. It also pays for our use of the local stadiums, owned by Stadiums QLD. Last I heard, a couple of years ago, it cost the Lions $1m per game to play at the Gabba. Payable to the QLD government via Stadiums QLD.


Another reason why northern clubs receive higher distributions.

We don't have as high membership numbers, pumping money in to our clubs. You know, because AFL isn't as popular here, isn't played by as many families and kids. Which is why fewer kids get drafted out of the northern states than Vic, WA or SA.


Where does the AFL distribution money come from?

The media rights deal.

It sure as **** is not coming out of Freo's or West Coasts pockets, so I don't know why you have your panties in a knot over the AFL's distribution.

This is like arguing the welfare someone receives doesn’t come from someone else’s tax they pay because they get a refund once a year.

Everyone understands the Northern clubs are up against it, it doesn’t mean they should have imbedded advantages though that have become unfair or that fans should pretend that they fund these advantages.

 

[Atomboy]

Why is Kalani White joining Melbourne FC, shouldn’t he be lost to Rugby Union, League or Hurling because he couldn’t stay local ???.

 

[Bostonian]

A win for equality. What a farce. Just like the equality of the draw I assume; the same one that SA and WA clubs get an extra home game than the northern clubs and you could go on.

It’s high time that any draftee from a VIC metro kid that says he doesn’t want to be drafted to an interstate club automatically gets banned for three years for draft tampering.

It’s a win for the whining sooks.

The AFL reduced the discount for this draft and now in their wisdom are now removing from first round.

Zero point of you running an academy then really going forward.

Produce any high end first round talent and you won't get to have them anyway.

 

[briztoon]

This is like arguing the welfare someone receives doesn’t come from someone else’s tax they pay because they get a refund once a year.

Are West Coast and Freo paying tax to the AFL?

The current media rights deal is the figure it is, because of the new clubs, extra games, etc, etc.

F*ck the AFL has explained this themselves several times.

Expansion meant higher media rights deals.

It’s why the VFL went national for a start.

It’s why Freo was added in to the AFL.

Again, no club is taking money out of another clubs pockets.

Everyone understands the Northern clubs are up against it, it doesn’t mean they should have imbedded advantages though that have become unfair or that fans should pretend that they fund these advantages.

 

[briztoon]

Zero point of you running an academy then really going forward.

Produce any high end first round talent and you won't get to have them anyway.

That was the AFL’s selling line about the academies in the first place. You run them, you keep them.

 

[Bostonian]

That was the AFL’s selling line about the academies in the first place. You run them, you keep them.

And we run our own academy for father son/daughter players.

Walker has been down at Carlton training far longer than any Brisbane academy kids has been at Brisbane.

Yet we are to get zero benefit from that?

 

[mpal6]

This is like arguing the welfare someone receives doesn’t come from someone else’s tax they pay because they get a refund once a year.

Everyone understands the Northern clubs are up against it, it doesn’t mean they should have imbedded advantages though that have become unfair or that fans should pretend that they fund these advantages.

No it's not, you're making an argument of Northern club programs being funded direct from West Coast and Fremantle's pockets which it clearly isn't. AFL provides media money across all teams and multiple teams covering audience across more states directly corresponds to the media $ pot they receive in their big contracts.

I don't understand the rage here, is your problem with father/son or academy or nga or everything? Even Fremantle appear to have had NGAs like Draper, Western, Walker who are around the best 22. Are you happy to scrap the whole lot if it means no one gets anything?

The more I read the responses it's just devolving into a rant against system coz it didn't give your specific club as good a benefit as other clubs have received in the recent past.

 

[mpal6]

And we run our own academy for father son/daughter players.

Walker has been down at Carlton training far longer than any Brisbane academy kids has been at Brisbane.

Yet we are to get zero benefit from that?

I don't see them touching father son to be honest.

Let's see what happens with NGA and Academy.

 

[Bostonian]

I don't see them touching father son to be honest.

Let's see what happens with NGA and Academy.

Time will tell.

NGA needs the most rules tightening. At present it's ridiculous.

 

[Broski]

Another farce. He has been playing AFL every year since U8's.

I work on match days with South Adelaide and the bloke is going to be a menace. As a 16yo that is probably around 192cm at the moment, we racked up 27 touches and kicked 9.4.

Pilot is most dominant kid I have seen at that level in living memory. Essentially has to play up an age level (which he has and hasn't looked out of place at all). Explosive athlete who is a very talented Aus rep basketballer too... Port licking their lips.

 

[Maybe Tomorrow]

It seems the main gripe is the first round of the draft. St Kilda don't care about some NGA kid going pick 54. It's a fair point that some bottom teams struggle to re-build.

So what about this for an idea. Bundle all the bid matching into one category - Academy, FS, NGA but restrict matching the first round. And restrict due to ladder position.

Miss finals - match as many as you like.
No prelim - 1 first round match max (doesn't carry forward)
Prelim - 0 matches this year
Winner - 0 matches for two years (regardless of position the next year).

This would make it harder for the teams at the top to stay there.

Free Agents. Harder to work out due to lack of transparency on salaries. But remove all compo picks.

Any finalist that signs a band 1/2 free agent loses their next available first round pick (so if they don't have one this year, they lose next years pick).

Not sure on this tbh, but they need to make it hard to raid the bottom teams of their best players. WC losing Allen this year a perfect example.

 

[danielG]

It seems the main gripe is the first round of the draft. St Kilda don't care about some NGA kid going pick 54. It's a fair point that some bottom teams struggle to re-build.

So what about this for an idea. Bundle all the bid matching into one category - Academy, FS, NGA but restrict matching the first round. And restrict due to ladder position.

Miss finals - match as many as you like.
No prelim - 1 first round match max (doesn't carry forward)
Prelim - 0 matches this year
Winner - 0 matches for two years (regardless of position the next year).

This would make it harder for the teams at the top to stay there.

Free Agents. Harder to work out due to lack of transparency on salaries. But remove all compo picks.

Any finalist that signs a band 1/2 free agent loses their next available first round pick (so if they don't have one this year, they lose next years pick).

Not sure on this tbh, but they need to make it hard to raid the bottom teams of their best players. WC losing Allen this year a perfect example.

I think it’s quite an easy fix for the AFL to have an equitable system but the AFL doesn’t like making things simple. Firstly why did the AFL deviate from the MO of the competition to be even above everything else.. We’ve seen this year it’s never been more uncompetitive.. Weak teams are struggling to compete and improve.
First round should be untouchable or close to. My fix would be to have no NGAs, Acadmies or Father Sons in the first round. I would make one exception every three years so the clubs were incentivised to invest in the academy systems..
Secondly get rid of Free agency compo in the first round. FA top compo is end of first round and compo only to clubs who didn’t make the finals..
I’d make a salary incentive for FAs to join non finals teams.
The draft system needs to give bottom teams the best chance to move up, but recently GC own the draft with all the players they have coming through their academy’s. They’ve used the points system to build a good list now let’s focus on getting the system working the way it was originally designed..

 

[Maybe Tomorrow]

I think it’s quite an easy fix for the AFL to have an equitable system but the AFL doesn’t like making things simple. Firstly why did the AFL deviate from the MO of the competition to be even above everything else.. We’ve seen this year it’s never been more uncompetitive.. Weak teams are struggling to compete and improve.
First round should be untouchable or close to. My fix would be to have no NGAs, Acadmies or Father Sons in the first round. I would make one exception every three years so the clubs were incentivised to invest in the academy systems..
Secondly get rid of Free agency compo in the first round. FA top compo is end of first round and compo only to clubs who didn’t make the finals..
I’d make a salary incentive for FAs to join non finals teams.
The draft system needs to give bottom teams the best chance to move up, but recently GC own the draft with all the players they have coming through their academy’s. They’ve used the points system to build a good list now let’s focus on getting the system working the way it was originally designed..

yeah, it needs to be hard to stay at the top. In my example Brisbane won last year so could not take either LAshcroft or Annable. So those players would go to different clubs, and probably the world keeps turning.

If the Suns win the flag this year they could not match Uwland and Paterson and so on.

I think you need to let the bottom teams take players in the first round personally. It's going to help Carlton getting two FS players in the next two years for example. That aids their re-build.

How they deal with the other in-equalities needs to be addressed too though. Some of the comp getting 17 home games a year is one.

 

[Purple Suit]

No it's not, you're making an argument of Northern club programs being funded direct from West Coast and Fremantle's pockets which it clearly isn't. AFL provides media money across all teams and multiple teams covering audience across more states directly corresponds to the media $ pot they receive in their big contracts.

I don't understand the rage here, is your problem with father/son or academy or nga or everything? Even Fremantle appear to have had NGAs like Draper, Western, Walker who are around the best 22. Are you happy to scrap the whole lot if it means no one gets anything?

The more I read the responses it's just devolving into a rant against system coz it didn't give your specific club as good a benefit as other clubs have received in the recent past.

The extra game provided extra revenue, this is still part of all clubs revenue as they are 1/18th of the product. That bucket could still be shared equally but it is not, sometime up to 3 times the smallest amount.

Half the revenue for the clubs is from game day revenue, half from tv money. Those that struggle get a lot more TV money, they don’t earn more. They then complain about paying for academies which give them a massive advantage, it’s a bit rich.

The problem are different rules for different clubs. In a comp that restricts things for equalisation, it has completely blown out the advantages North of the border. We get NGA scraps and have missed out on more than we have taken due to the rules.

We have had a bigger talent drain than any other club in the past 10 years yet we don’t get assistance like the reigning premiers do. About time they fixed it properly and no first round academies, nga’s or f/s would be a great result.

 

[mpal6]

Why is Kalani White joining Melbourne FC, shouldn’t he be lost to Rugby Union, League or Hurling because he couldn’t stay local ???.

Gold Coast has managed to turn the tide in terms of getting AFL into private schools and grassroot level. This is a super important, underrated change - now AFL coaches, people who find jobs at the lower levels of AFL system like trainers, physios etc - they can genuinely look at Gold Coast as a city for careers working at schools and private coaching etc.

It's growing for sure hence you see all the talent they appear to be producing now year after year. Even on the points changes introduced recently they'll be able to only match Uwland and Patterson - while leaving Addinsall, Murray on the table for other clubs. I personally believe if Northern clubs are successful then the tap should turn off in that year's draft for them in terms of getting access to top academy players. it'll balance the ledger in terms of being successful and able to access talent simultaneously.

AFL is at a consolidation point and with right controls/incentives the system will take a bigger growth trajectory in QLD. AFL needs to be smart here than be knee jerk to hysteria.

 

[mpal6]

We have had a bigger talent drain than any other club in the past 10 years yet we don’t get assistance like the reigning premiers do. About time they fixed it properly and no first round academies, nga’s or f/s would be a great result.

I don't know mate, when we had a massive talent drain last time over a few years in mid 2010s - Longer, Docherty, Yeo, Polec, Karnezis, Schache, Redden etc - we were told to fix our culture. There was some truth to that and it took a bit of internal cleanup as well as getting the right leadership at the top to steer the ship. We didn't get handed down anything at that point and had to scrape our way through in terms of good drafting and building a core.

First round father sons in the recent years are a blessing for sure, but that's more like a cream on top for us and not something that formed the foundations of our initial rebuild.

 

[giantroo]

21min mark

 

[bluebaggerjuls]

Spent months reviewing the bidding process and nga access last year to only revert on those changes before it’s even been seen in a draft. Pretty standard by the afl

 

[the big lebowski]

I know how we’ll fix the blight on the draft that is “academy” access…….

……. We’ll change father son rules

 

[My_Username]

21min mark

I don't mind the 'no discount in the first round' suggestion, and the 'need a 1st round pick to get a 1st round pick' I'd be fine with after some modifications (not actually 1st round, just 'within 1 round of the pick'...i.e. within 18 picks of that selection, so you can take pick 5 with pick 23 (5+18), and while I imagine some might have issues with this, if you have multiple picks, you only require 1 qualifying pick).