News AFL overhauls Academy and FS bid matching, discussing draft lockout

[danster168]

what are you on about, fans only give a shit when they are highly rated or good players. See Gary Ablett Jnr, see Joe Daniher etc.

that's my exact point. This idea of the romance of the father/son only applies to good players, not the crappy ones. So the romance of the exact, pure, father-son is one of the biggest myths in footy. Clubs/Fans just like good players. They don't care who their dad was. And I just proved it by naming the scrub father-sons that no-one cared where they went.

 

[Viceregal]

Nah you've missed the point. It shouldn't be market value. It should cost clubs market value + 20%. Not a discount. It should be extra. A club is getting priority access to a player that they don't deserve. So if they want the player it should cost them overs.

And this is why the system is so flawed. It's improving yes but the system has gone from straight up corruption to laughably compromised. Much more needs to be done.

And there lies the core of the disagreement over 'fair price' and 'market value'... in your heart of hearts you don't believe that clubs deserve F/s or NGA or Academy access and your every (ever shifting) position is coloured by the ultimate preference to burn the whole thing down ... others who come from the perspective of them being a legitimate aspect of a club's life journey and you are never going to come to a meeting of minds with them.

'This is a good thing we need manage' and 'this is evil and those who partake should be punished, shunned and for the sake of our collective souls the whole thing should be purged' are kind of an irreconcilable difference...

 

[danster168]

And there lies the core of the disagreement over 'fair price' and 'market value'... in your heart of hearts you don't believe that clubs deserve F/s or NGA or Academy access and your every (ever shifting) position is coloured by the ultimate preference to burn the whole thing down ... others who come from the perspective of them being a legitimate aspect of a club's life journey and you are never going to come to a meeting of minds with them.

'This is a good thing we need manage' and 'this is evil and those who partake should be punished, shunned and for the sake of our collective souls the whole thing should be purged' are kind of an irreconcilable difference...

People are too preoccupied with their own clubs best interests to give an honest assessment of what is right. And don't say 'ever shifting'. I've been steadfast on this for a decade. Closer to 15 years. It has no part in the game if we want a comp with integrity. Or literally play for 2 different premierships cups. Dogs, Bris, Gold Coast, Coll play for 1 cup and everyone else play for another.

 

[Yoda_]

lol. we literally won a flag and had 2x top 4 finishes with no help from the afl. In fact, the opposite. The afl ripping players like Mac Andrew from our academy. Hilarious hearing about 'woah is me' from an essendon fan. Kako and Nguyen ain't moving the needle mate.

the AFL literally changed the priority pick when Essendon was eligible way back when, no "woah is me" from any Essendon supporters.


If you want something from your NGA, put something into it. Stop expecting something from it. Ditto father/sons

 

[danster168]

the AFL literally changed the priority pick when Essendon was eligible way back when, no "woah is me" from any Essendon supporters.


If you want something from your NGA, put something into it. Stop expecting something from it. Ditto father/sons

did they then change the rules back to allow priority picks? nope. different.

 

[jumperfan]

Yeah, if Suns would have to pay extra for academy kids (no benefit from academy), they would not be running academy (unless forced by their owner, AFL).

They would just draft non-academy kids for less, haha. Yeah, absurd.

You wouldn't pay extra to draft high-quality juniors that you've been able to lock in to your club and train properly from a much younger age than other clubs?

 

[Obeanie1]

Pigs fly too. Fair on earth it’s not the first one they matched that’s relatively “okay”, it’s the 2nd, 3rd and 4th ones. The curve wasn’t near enough. Go to a market and see if any club would give you that junk for pick 5 let alone the other two in the first round.

The two pick rule solves most of the issues unfortunately we all know why the AFL was “slow” putting it in. I blame the AFL, not GC and not any other clubs.

Who ownes and runs Gold Coast?

 

[Obeanie1]

And there lies the core of the disagreement over 'fair price' and 'market value'... in your heart of hearts you don't believe that clubs deserve F/s or NGA or Academy access and your every (ever shifting) position is coloured by the ultimate preference to burn the whole thing down ... others who come from the perspective of them being a legitimate aspect of a club's life journey and you are never going to come to a meeting of minds with them.

'This is a good thing we need manage' and 'this is evil and those who partake should be punished, shunned and for the sake of our collective souls the whole thing should be purged' are kind of an irreconcilable difference...

Says a supporter of a club that many of its fans openly joke and gloat about the rort they have enjoyed.

And other clubs get nothing.

Nepo clubs need to be weaned off the priority access welfare rort. Simple as that.

Especially those looking at a three peat in flags.

 

[Jirik13]

You wouldn't pay extra to draft high-quality juniors that you've been able to lock in to your club and train properly from a much younger age than other clubs?

No.

IMO, not worth it if you have to pay more than for the same quality draftees from somewhere else.

It 's a big effort currently from Suns, costing a lot of money and staff capacity. Yes, a lot of money from AFL but also from sponsors.

When winning players want and usually stay and the clubs are able to attract players. That's the case for QLD clubs too. See Lions last 5-6 years and even Suns last and this year.

Let's see how locked in are academy kids Walter and Rogers next off-season. Both did not re-sign yet. Budarick just left. Suns did offer him contract. To be fair Budarick probably knew he could be out of best 23 next season.

 

[Obeanie1]

that's my exact point. This idea of the romance of the father/son only applies to good players, not the crappy ones. So the romance of the exact, pure, father-son is one of the biggest myths in footy. Clubs/Fans just like good players. They don't care who their dad was. And I just proved it by naming the scrub father-sons that no-one cared where they went.

Yep. Its incredible how the romance only follows the good players.

Similar to players who previously ignored their indigenous roots until they become really good at football, a club finds out and they start looking and then claiming a player as an NGA.

Rort.

 

[Obeanie1]

No.

IMO, not worth it if you have to pay more than for the same quality draftees from somewhere else.

It 's a big effort currently from Suns, costing a lot of money and staff capacity. Yes, a lot of money from AFL but also from sponsors.

When winning players want and usually stay. See Lions.

Let's see how locked in are academy kids Walter and Rogers next off-season. Both did not re-sign yet. Budarick just left. Suns did offer him contract. To be fair Budarick probably knew he could be out of best 23 next season.

Yes the AFL and sponsors fund the academy.

Not the club. It cant as it is losing money.

The club just reaps the benefits.

 

[Jirik13]

Yes the AFL and sponsors fund the academy.

Not the club. It cant as it is losing money.

The club just reaps the benefits.

Obviously Suns are owned and run by AFL. Nothing new there.

Hey Eagles, just put more money into NGA and you will reap benefits too. Not sure what Eagles are doing with all those millions. Although cheap price seems to be over.

I do hope AFL will implement the suggested changes (Twomey). It would be fun watching Carlton and Port trying to match early bids.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I do hope AFL will implement the suggested changes (Twomey). It would be fun watching Carlton and Port trying to match early bids.

Well they have to do something, this year was a flat out rort, and no I'm not blaming the clubs matching bids, I blame the AFL. Never have I seen an organisation so bad at fixing a very very simple issue

 

[Jirik13]

Well they have to do something, this year was a flat out rort, and no I'm not blaming the clubs matching bids, I blame the AFL. Never have I seen an organisation so bad at fixing a very very simple issue

Disagree.

This year was a progress in right direction. Some clubs did not match bids. Suns were a special case. There were preparing for it for several years and did pay decent price. It's not like they got those kids for nothing. No picks next year.

I have no problems with new rules coming. I suspect some clubs will have and are pushing back. Those rules were originally supposed to be announced before trade, then before draft, then this Dec and we are still waiting. Yes, AFL is a terrible organisation.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Disagree.

This year was a progress in right direction. Some clubs did not match bids. Suns were a special case. There were preparing for it for several years and did pay decent price. It's not like they got those kids for nothing. No picks next year.

I have no problems with new rules coming. I suspect some clubs will have.

Not really, you had clubs matching first rounders with relative junk nowhere near value. Again I don't blame your club, I blame the AFL. This 2 pick rule should have been in THIS year, we all know why it wasn't though. Of course you have no problem you've just got 4 first rounders for 2 cents in the dollar, heaven don't blame you, the AFL are a bunch of you know whats letting it happen though.

 

[Miller1971]

Pick 30 is junk when it suits one day, and highly valued - depends on the narrative you are trying to spin.

But 4 x 2nd round picks is not junk in any language.

 

[danielG]

Not really, you had clubs matching first rounders with relative junk nowhere near value. Again I don't blame your club, I blame the AFL. This 2 pick rule should have been in THIS year, we all know why it wasn't though. Of course you have no problem you've just got 4 first rounders for 2 cents in the dollar, heaven don't blame you, the AFL are a bunch of you know whats letting it happen though.

My POV, most would accept (maybe with the exception of GC fans), that the system is obscenely flawed and the academy rules needed to be tightened years ago.. It’s three years too late…
The AFL don’t listen to the clubs.. I’d be favouring fans showing their disapproval and not show up to GC games away from their home ground.. If GC draws horrible crowds (yes you can argue thats already the case), to games maybe the AFL will understand fans, members and clubs have seen enough of this openly corrupt system and will take the proper action to make an equitable draft system that gives teams a fighting chance to get better through the draft..
Would be bitter sweet if GC made a GF and half the stadium was empty..

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Pick 30 is junk when it suits one day, and highly valued - depends on the narrative you are trying to spin.

But 4 x 2nd round picks is not junk in any language.

They are when you are matching in the top 5!

Ask yourself this okay and I'll use your club okay you hold pick 5 are you selling that for 3-4 picks in the 20's?

That's the issue. It's not near the value.

This is why the 2 pick max rule has to be in, it will make clubs pay more and be harshly penalised if they go to deficits

 

[mpal6]

Pick 30 is junk when it suits one day, and highly valued - depends on the narrative you are trying to spin.

But 4 x 2nd round picks is not junk in any language.

I was about to quote your other post regarding Uwland (2 firsts and a second) and Patterson (4 seconds) being fair.

People just have a hissy fit over bid matching in general and are not even seeing the detail anymore, in spite of recent changes making a difference in the level of picks needed to even match bids.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

My POV, most would accept (maybe with the exception of GC fans), that the system is obscenely flawed and the academy rules needed to be tightened years ago.. It’s three years too late…
The AFL don’t listen to the clubs.. I’d be favouring fans showing their disapproval and not show up to GC games away from their home ground.. If GC draws horrible crowds (yes you can argue thats already the case), to games maybe the AFL will understand fans, members and clubs have seen enough of this openly corrupt system and will take the proper action to make an equitable draft system that gives teams a fighting chance to get better through the draft..
Would be bitter sweet if GC made a GF and half the stadium was empty..

The AFL have an amazing ability to be reactionary at a turtle pace about every decision so them being 3 years too late is on par with everything. You only have to look at the jumper punches getting suspensions now...ummm you muppets that should have been a suspension 3 years ago AFL!

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I was about to quote your other post regarding Uwland (2 firsts and a second) and Patterson (4 seconds) being fair.

People just have a hissy fit over bid matching in general and are not even seeing the detail anymore, in spite of recent changes making a difference in the level of picks needed to even match bids.

4 seconds regardless of where they are would and should not get you a top 5 selection. If Brisbane held pick 5 no way on earth are they trading it for 4 picks in the 30's!

 

[Jirik13]

Not really, you had clubs matching first rounders with relative junk nowhere near value. Again I don't blame your club, I blame the AFL. This 2 pick rule should have been in THIS year, we all know why it wasn't though. Of course you have no problem you've just got 4 first rounders for 2 cents in the dollar, heaven don't blame you, the AFL are a bunch of you know whats letting it happen though.

TBH, bringing all those kids don't excite me. It takes 3-4+ years for them to start delivering and probably half will not make it, some will leave as the club can't keep all. Suns went through that several times.

Sure, bringing top talent is a good start for rebuild but IMO, it's only part of the puzzle, together with great personnel on and off field, great high performance team, great list management, talent identification (see Cats Grand final line-up, so many late, rookie pick ups), bringing ready made players, etc.

Petracca excites me more. After 15 years at the bottom, surely Suns fans deserve some fun. But nothing is guaranteed. Suns list is very young (4th youngest). They turned over 31 players in the last 3 years. Limited, too young depth.

 

[danielG]

The AFL have an amazing ability to be reactionary at a turtle pace about every decision so them being 3 years too late is on par with everything. You only have to look at the jumper punches getting suspensions now...ummm you muppets that should have been a suspension 3 years ago AFL!

Completely agree with everything you wrote…Any average fan could manage / forecast the problems these things create and yet the AFL tinker around the edges and don’t make the necessary changes to fix the looming problems…It’s all so obviously flawed and easily fixed, and yet here we are…

 

[LukeParkerno1]

TBH, bringing all those kids don't excite me. It takes 3-4+ years for them to start delivering and probably half will not make it, some will leave as the club can't keep all. Suns went through that several times.

Sure, bringing top talent is a good start for rebuild but IMO, it's only part of the puzzle, together with great personnel on and off field, great high performance team, great list management, talent identification (see Cats Grand final line-up, so many late, rookie pick ups), bringing ready made players, etc.

Petracca excites me more. After 15 years at the bottom, surely Suns fans deserve some fun. But nothing is guaranteed. Suns list is very young (4th youngest). They turned over 31 players in the last 3 years. Limited, too young depth.

Look whilst true that's the issue, it should have been Petrraca OR one of the top talents, not both. Yes you can say oh we prepared etc. The issue is the value, I've said it over and over again the AFL are complete nuffies. They want to band aid every single problem rather than putting cement on it and stopping it for good. That's on them not the clubs though.

This new change will force clubs to make calls on academy talents and that's good

 

[mpal6]

4 seconds regardless of where they are would and should not get you a top 5 selection. If Brisbane held pick 5 no way on earth are they trading it for 4 picks in the 30's!

It was not 4 in 30s - it was two picks in 20s and two in 30s. Also the value definitely can, especially when you are talking about an unproven 18 year old. Pick 5 can turn out to be next big thing or could turn out to be a Tsatas, Schache or McAsey. Regardless of how big the name is, it comes with an element of unproven factor.

I can give you an alternate view of the world where a proven coleman medallist, all-australian key position forward got traded for a pick 12 in terms of trade value points. So people need to ease up on the hysteria and see what's being revised on the DVI now.