AFL Success Ladder: 1990 -

[R00StaR]

Win a spoon and take the cream of a draft? Then deliver a flag!

Thought id post this since some of the recent debate in threads around here. Of course im not expecting everyone to agree with the table and in good ol big footy fashion expect a fair amount of flames. Im simply offering another way of looking at 'success'.

Its not really fair to compare teams before the evening process (pre draft). Allowing for a few years of the draft to kick in the above shows Geelong have been the outstanding team of the past 20 years.

One thing that has been done with the above table is to take into account the draft system. The shame of being the worst by winning a spoon and taking the best the system has to offer can only be truly erased by winning a premiership.

So Melbourne for example have cranked out a few lately and are now seeing the benefit of being terrible with a stockpile of the countries best talent. To offset this badness they need to win a number of flags. Brisbane won 3 flags but also 3 spoons, Collingwood 2 flags and 1 spoon, West Coast i think were 3 flags and 1 spoon.

Geelong however havent won the most flags in the last 20 years, but they have never had the leg up of winning spoons. This is also reflected in their games won per season, which is outstanding! Over a full game ahead of their nearest rival.

Interesting from my own clubs perspective. I keep reading we are crap and need to play better football blah blah blah. Stats would show otherwise, considering much of the 20 years our spending is much lower than other clubs its a pretty fair result.

Note: Theres a few things that would change the table dramatically. Start from when draft was actually introduced and Hawthorn would have many extra flags, however the draft really couldnt have had much or any effect. The other is starting from 1990, it would be a very valid argument to start at a later date for the draft to have a fuller effect - perhaps 1993 or 4. If so Brisbane would have a few spoons wiped off

 

[Underarm]

thats the stupidest table i have ever heard. Most 'spoons' have no correlation to winning a premiership - prove me one that has first! All this proves is how much heartache a team has had in the last 20 seasons compared with how much sucess in the same period.

Geelong havent won a spoon
Pies spoon was '99 - they all left before their premiership....
West Coast spoon was in 2010, pretty sure none of their Draft picks played in 92/94/2006.....
Ditto carlton and many other clubs.

So im curious, how the hell does this prove that coming last = coming first?

 

[StringyDog]

Interesting from my own clubs perspective. I keep reading we are crap and need to play better football blah blah blah. Stats would show otherwise, considering much of the 20 years our spending is much lower than other clubs its a pretty fair result.

You are crap now and have little structure moving forward, you were power in 90's and have clearly started from then to pump up North in your crappy ladder, do same thing from 2000 onwards and North would be down bottom end of that ladder

 

[rose jam]

Flags

Bris 3
Geel, Hawks, Pies, Roos, Wet Toast, Crows, Dons 2

They fill out the top of that ladder in whatever order you feel like

 

[JD-Roo]

Flags

Bris 3
Geel, Hawks, Pies, Roos, Wet Toast, Crows, Dons 2

They fill out the top of that ladder in whatever order you feel like

Since '90? Missing an Eagles cup in there methinks....

 

[The_Eagles]

Flags

Bris 3
Geel, Hawks, Pies, Roos, Wet Toast, Crows, Dons 2

They fill out the top of that ladder in whatever order you feel like

hehe, Eagles got 3 too

 

[Woodson]

Flags

Bris 3
Geel, Hawks, Pies, Roos, Wet Toast, Crows, Dons 2

They fill out the top of that ladder in whatever order you feel like

Eagles have 3. If a more accurate table is to be determined, listing a points system where team wins in finals, reaching the Prelims & GF would gauge it more precisely. Obviously winning the flag is what success really means.
The draft has very little impact. That's just for the 'hype' of no guarantees. Late-mid round picks are just effective.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Most succesful since 1990 is West Coast and Brisbane. Arguing any different is just stupid.

 

[R00StaR]

So if a club sucked for 7-8 years in a row grabbing PPs all over the place, then went on to win 3 flags they are hands down better than the club that wins 2 and never gained such advantages. Got it.

 

[The Filth Wizard]

I can see the logic BUT... over half of that time frame has seen Brisbane and Fitzroy as a merged entity. You can't possibly separate them on this table.

Unless you really hate Melbourne.

 

[Father Jack]

So if a club sucked for 7-8 years in a row grabbing PPs all over the place, then went on to win 3 flags they are hands down better than the club that wins 2 and never gained such advantages. Got it.

every single day of the week. and twice on sundays. flags are what it is all about.

also, there is no team that i'd swap our post '90 record with.

 

[ManWithNoName]

So if a club sucked for 7-8 years in a row grabbing PPs all over the place, then went on to win 3 flags they are hands down better than the club that wins 2 and never gained such advantages. Got it.

Who's won more flags? The side with 3.

 

[CF]

OP-Just another way of showing that since 1990 Geelong is the greatest team of all - well done

 

[red+black]

Most succesful since 1990 is West Coast and Brisbane. Arguing any different is just stupid.

West Coast have deservedly earned the most premierships since 1990.

 

[CF]

If you are using Premierships as the only measure of success then Carlton & Essendon are the most successful teams in the AFL with 16 flags each. WCE & Lions have only a piddly 3 each.

 

[fomoco04]

All comparisons should be from 1990 onwards. Prior to that it was a State league not a national one.

 

[Rack Watts]

Brisbane 3
West Coast 3
Essendon 2
Geelong 2
Roos 2
Hawks 2
Pies 2
Swans 1
Blues 1
Crows 1
Power 1
All that matters.

 

[Byron_Clanger]

Brisbane 3
West Coast 3
Essendon 2
Geelong 2
Roos 2
Hawks 2
Pies 2
Swans 1
Blues 1
Crows 1
Power 1
All that matters.

Looks good to me

 

[CF]

Carlton 16
Essendon 16
Collingwood 15
Melbourne 12
Richmond 10
Hawthorn 10
Fitzroy 8
Geelong 8
N.Melb/K'roos 4
Sth Melb/Sydney 4
Brisbane Lions 3
West Coast 3
Adelaide 2
Footscray/W.B. 1
St Kilda 1
Port Adelaide 1
Fremantle 0

this is the only one that matters

 

[fomoco04]

this is the only one that matters

If we were playing in the VFL it would. Sadly for some we are not.

You can't compare apples to oranges. The premierships that clubs won while playing in a state comp don't carry over to the national competition.

Some people need to realise that the VFL was a state competition. The AFL is the national competition that came into existence in 1990.

 

[Flameboy]

Brisbane 3
West Coast 3
Essendon 2
Geelong 2
Roos 2
Hawks 2
Pies 2
Swans 1
Blues 1
Crows 1
Power 1
All that matters.

That is it mate.

Over the next 10 years, would you rather your club win 5 flags followed by 5 spoons, or finish mid table for 9 of those years, and win the flag in one of them? Pretty simple. Yet according to the ladder in the OP, the team with only one flag has been more successful

 

[CF]

If we were playing in the VFL it would. Sadly for some we are not.

You can't compare apples to oranges. The premierships that clubs won while playing in a state comp don't carry over to the national competition.

Some people need to realise that the VFL was a state competition. The AFL is the national competition that came into existence in 1990.

ahhh if you read the AFL records they seem to count. You joined our state league so all our old records still hold true budlet's talk when after you win another 14 premierships then shall we?

 

[thatday]

If we were playing in the VFL it would. Sadly for some we are not.

You can't compare apples to oranges. The premierships that clubs won while playing in a state comp don't carry over to the national competition.

Some people need to realise that the VFL was a state competition. The AFL is the national competition that came into existence in 1990.

Yes but the VFL expanded into the AFL and therefore it's the same league. By your reasoning we should only be counting flags from once the expansion is finished, so after 2012?

Doesn't bother me really, we have a good record in both

 

[doodlefeatures]

If we were playing in the VFL it would. Sadly for some we are not.

You can't compare apples to oranges. The premierships that clubs won while playing in a state comp don't carry over to the national competition.

Some people need to realise that the VFL was a state competition. The AFL is the national competition that came into existence in 1990.

So if West Coast had won a flag in 1987-1989 it wouldn't count?

And other than a name change, what happened in 1990 that made it a national competition? No new teams joined.

 

[R00StaR]

ahhh if you read the AFL records they seem to count. You joined our state league so all our old records still hold true budlet's talk when after you win another 14 premierships then shall we?

Yep appears flags are the only measurement and nothing else matters, no matter how much you tank for them, no matter how much extra you paid (pre salary caps). So too bad if clubs werent around thats their fault.