Moved Thread AFL To Bail Out The Dees?

[Enya]

Then came the disastrous tenure of the AFL-recommended CFO which nearly sent the club to the wall, again.

Who was this?

 

[LouisCK]

So fans are justified in giving up now? What happens if it happens again?

Yep absolutely. Its a product, and a shitty one. I like the AFL because of the socialised way teams don't stay down for too long. At the moment the league is out of balance for the team I support. Shitty fixturing + expansion clubs being given too much of a leg up has destroyed my team's ability to be competitive. This has been going on now for 6 or 7 years, but started well before that.

Until the AFL can provide a fair platform for my club, I refuse to be a customer of the AFL.

The AFL can choose to do this by either: equalising the fixture so that teams get exposure against the better sides evenly, and equal access to saturday afternoon/friday night/saturday night games. And equal salary caps, salary rules (no visy bs) etc.

OR

They can give us millions in additional funding, bonus picks etc. and assist with signing FA's to make up for the unfair fixturing/competitive environment.

The AFL knows this is the scenario. Which is all the motivation it needs to act.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Yep absolutely. Its a product, and a shitty one. I like the AFL because of the socialised way teams don't stay down for too long. At the moment the league is out of balance for the team I support. Shitty fixturing + expansion clubs being given too much of a leg up has destroyed my team's ability to be competitive. This has been going on now for 6 or 7 years, but started well before that.

Until the AFL can provide a fair platform for my club, I refuse to be a customer of the AFL.

The AFL can choose to do this by either: equalising the fixture so that teams get exposure against the better sides evenly, and equal access to saturday afternoon/friday night/saturday night games. And equal salary caps, salary rules (no visy bs) etc.

OR

They can give us millions in additional funding, bonus picks etc. and assist with signing FA's to make up for the unfair fixturing/competitive environment.

The AFL knows this is the scenario. Which is all the motivation it needs to act.

They would sooner deliver Lance Franklin to the MCG in a chauffeur driven Rolls Royce, than even up the fixture/schedule/salary cap playing field.

 

[Mofra]

When push came to shove the Melbourne fans stood up. I've yet to see North, the Bulldogs, Brisbane, Port etc etc etc fans do the same thing, to the same extent, under the same circumstances.

Really?

1989 Fightback anyone? We took on the AFL and won via a grassroots campaign to raise a 7 figure sum (in 1989 dollars) in just a couple of week. That is a far greater effort than any other club I can think of in recent memory.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Who was this?

Ian Campbell, I think his name was. He was high up at Nike in the US and came with the AFL's tick of approval. Pretty sure he conceded at the end that his experience didn't translate well to an Australian football market.

 

[The_Wookie]

Until the AFL are willing to bring in a new club from Tassie and force two Melbourne based clubs to merge they will have to keep bailing out every club that gets into financial trouble, be they Melbourne based or someone like Port, GWS, Brisbane or GC.

this from Brisbane who have made sustained multimillion dollar losses for three years straight, and required 1.6 million in emergency ASD funding last year. ok then.

 

[The_Wookie]

You recieved money from the AFL during those times.

6.9 million has been handed to Richmond in ASD and disequal funding to the end of 2014. 400k a year in ASD funding over 7 years.

 

[Ron The Bear]

You recieved money from the AFL during those times.

Recently we've had loans, and the special distribution fund to compensate for shitty fixturing as other clubs have had, e.g. 7 Friday night games in the five years 2008-2012. Nothing in the 90's when the AFL tried to "Fitzroy" us. Why should Melbourne get more?

Do I support Melbourne being given cash to keep the doors open and pay the bills? Yes
Better fixturing/exposure arrangements? Yes, with qualifications
Money to bolster the football department? Perhaps
Money to poach other clubs' players? * no
Extra draft picks? * no

You should be helped to help yourselves. Nothing more.

Edit: And scrap the tanking fine, shouldn't be penalised for taking the piss out of the AFL's warped system.

 

[Ridley This]

I'd much rather this than them being given another priority pick.

I think this is very good news for demons fans and their future in the AFL in general: hopefully this'll put them on the right track and at least help them back to being competitive at a minimum.

agree in the end would rather pump money into them than draft picks. Them wasting an extra pick may push us down the order at a crucial time.

They'll probably use the money to buy another dud coach anyway. Make sure he doesn't have a beard though, it's a tv dominated industry these days.

And when they get both?
Probably trade Pick 2 and the Prioity to the Giants to nap Tom Boyd as well.

Seems to be the Melbourne M.O.:
- Beg cap in hand to the AFL (nothing wrong with that per se if you are really struggling).
- Use their compo pick to leveraged the situation created by the expansion clubs.
- Swindle other struggling teams out of opportunities to draft and trade.
Watch it happen folks.

I'm pretty sure no one would oppose a Melbourne bail-out if they weren't such dicks about everything else.

 

[The_Wookie]

Recently we've had loans, and the special distribution fund to compensate for shitty fixturing. Nothing in the 90's when the AFL tried to "Fitzroy" us. Why should Melbourne get more?

Do I support Melbourne being given cash to keep the doors open and pay the bills? Yes
Better fixturing/exposure arrangements? Yes, with qualifications
Money to bolster the football department? Perhaps
Money to poach other clubs' players? **** no
Extra draft picks? **** no'

You should be helped to help yourselves. Nothing more.

No one got anything in the 90s. Im not sure if you remember the Bulldogs rattling the tins, Fitzroy being forced to merge, hawthorn and melbourne coming close to merging, Collingwood and geelong being close to broke.... Reducing the number of Melbourne clubs was an active policy persued by the AFL in that time. That is no longer the case, it doesnt mean it will be in the future.

Ffor what its worth, I dont agree with the draft picks either. Fix the administration, hand out a fair fixture to all clubs, and many problems will evaporate (creating new ones in regards to tv and rights money...but hey thats not important either right)

 

[Ron The Bear]

No one got anything in the 90s. Im not sure if you remember the Bulldogs rattling the tins, Fitzroy being forced to merge, hawthorn and melbourne coming close to merging, Collingwood and geelong being close to broke.... Reducing the number of Melbourne clubs was an active policy persued by the AFL in that time. That is no longer the case, it doesnt mean it will be in the future.

I raised those things merely to illustrate that Melbourne isn't the first or the worst re hardship. There's a very big difference between being assisted to survive and being given a helping hand up the ladder.

 

[LouisCK]

They would sooner deliver Lance Franklin to the MCG in a chauffeur driven Rolls Royce, than even up the fixture/schedule/salary cap playing field.

I know.

But I'm always surprised when people don't seem to understand this. Every administrator in the AFL understands it, which is why the Demons have recieved basically unanimous support from the other clubs.

 

[RedLegs#5]

Really?

1989 Fightback anyone? We took on the AFL and won via a grassroots campaign to raise a 7 figure sum (in 1989 dollars) in just a couple of week. That is a far greater effort than any other club I can think of in recent memory.

I should have specified, in recent times.

 

[Snake_Baker]

I know.

But I'm always surprised when people don't seem to understand this.

The basic person in the streets is an emotionally enslaved moron that is too lazy to think.

You know this rick.

Every administrator in the AFL understands it, which is why the Demons have received basically unanimous support from the other clubs.

Mergers don't work, relocations don't work, and having a market of 30,000 plus members and supporters walk away from the game, for the cost of a couple of million and a couple of players, is an act of corporate stupidity. They know this. All clubs must be supported whilst they are viable in a competitive phase.

 

[RedLegs#5]

The basic person in the streets is an emotionally enslaved moron that is too lazy to think.

You know this rick.



Mergers don't work, relocations don't work, and having a market of 30,000 plus members and supporters walk away from the game, for the cost of a couple of million and a couple of players, is an act of corporate stupidity. They know this. All clubs must be supported whilst they are viable in a competitive phase.

This. End of.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I should have specified, in recent times.

Kangas not ringing any bells? wasn't that long ago they were looking at forced assisted relocation to the Gold Coast because their club was done.

- you have higher attendances this year than both North and the Dogs

- you have less debt than both North and the Dogs (and this is likely to still be the case for 2013)

- you have 5k more members than the dogs

- you have access to gaming revenues unlike North

Yet in spite of all of this, how are you worse off than these two teams that you require an extra $3m cash from the league (massively more than either of these two get per annum)?

Before asking for an AFL blank cheque, why are you not going to the supporter base for this money, just like the Dogs and Kangas have had to do on multiple occasions?

 

[RedLegs#5]

Kangas not ringing any bells?

I referred to the supporters bailing the club out. The Kangaroo fans haven't put in nearly as much money as Melbourne's did. Not many supporters have...ever.

Let me state, this isn't a pissing contest. I want all clubs to survive, and if any other club were in a similar position, I would want them to be helped out. I have given to some other clubs when they have been in dire positions.

I should also state, again, that I don't think we deserve a priority pick.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Let me state, this isn't a pissing contest.

It is when certain posters sides are undergoing a golden patch.

They're pretty quiet when they're in a similar position.

Selective one-upmanship is a sure sign of poor character.

 

[LouisCK]

Yet in spite of all of this, how are you worse off than these two teams that you require an extra $3m cash from the league (massively more than either of these two get per annum)?

Combination of things. Timing being the biggest one.

Before asking for an AFL blank cheque, why are you not going to the supporter base for this money, just like the Dogs and Kangas have had to do on multiple occasions?

We've already done that, the argument is obviously that these costs/amounts are above and beyond what is reasonable to ask supporters for, and are tied to the inequality in the fixture.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I referred to the supporters bailing the club out. The Kangaroo fans haven't put in nearly as much money as Melbourne's did. Not many supporters have...ever.

Let me state, this isn't a pissing contest. I want all clubs to survive, and if any other club were in a similar position, I would want them to be helped out. I have given to some other clubs when they have been in dire positions.

I should also state, again, that I don't think we deserve a priority pick.

Bullshit - our fans just raised a similar amount to your debt demo, and the Kangas/Dogs fans have contributed a massive amount given they don't have the numbers of RFC or the top end of town connections of MFC

Your mob have done no more, and endured no more than any other club. You don't warrant such exceptional funding for something you brought upon yourself (paying off a fine and paying off contracts early). This is my issue, its not to improve your facilities, get you staff you cannot afford to hire - its to pay a fine and the early breaking of contracts.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Combination of things. Timing being the biggest one.



We've already done that, the argument is obviously that these costs/amounts are above and beyond what is reasonable to ask supporters for, and are tied to the inequality in the fixture.

Why are they above and beyond? Do the Kangas get to use this card and ask the AFL for $3m, or the Dogs for that matter? Richmond has gone to its members for funds twice in the last 23 years. Why are the Demons so different that they cannot be asked to go to the well once more?

 

[LouisCK]

Bullshit - our fans just raised a similar amount to your debt demo, and the Kangas/Dogs fans have contributed a massive amount given they don't have the numbers of RFC or the top end of town connections of MFC

Your mob have done no more, and endured no more than any other club. You don't warrant such exceptional funding for something you brought upon yourself (paying off a fine and paying off contracts early). This is my issue, its not to improve your facilities, get you staff you cannot afford to hire - its to pay a fine and the early breaking of contracts.

We could pay that fine and sack those staff easily if the fixture/timing of our down period wasn't in contrast to AFL business interests.

 

[MUYB]

It's like the members' at a Melbourne game.

I thought no members turned up?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

We could pay that fine and sack those staff easily if the fixture/timing of our down period wasn't in contrast to AFL business interests.

Again, Dogs are dealing with the same issue, have fewer members, and less attendances.

Why are they dealing with it when you cannot?

 

[LouisCK]

Why are they above and beyond? Do the Kangas get to use this card and ask the AFL for $3m, or the Dogs for that matter? Richmond has gone to its members for funds twice in the last 23 years. Why are the Demons so different that they cannot be asked to go to the well once more?

Because supporters aren't/shouldn't be expected to pay for everything. You realise the clubs get to actually share the profits the AFL makes right? Not just bleed the fans for every cent possible and put the profits only into expansion clubs?

That income is ours as much as its anyone's. If we can demonstrate that we need it, and the other clubs agree - we'll get it.

And from the sounds of it, everyone who actually knows anything (including multiple club CEO's, the AFL, the MFC etc) seems to agree we need it and should get it.