Recruiting AFL Trade & Free Agency XII - 💰💰💰

[Lore]

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[Happyskeret]

The only reason why I raised it is because he and his family are/were big Essendon fans and we have money to spend. Otherwise we'd have almost no chance.

I still believe he will stay at Bulldogs though.

I’m not knocking you for saying it. Someone was going to. It’s just the realist coming out of me. sigh You should definitely aim high though and we should pursue him. I would genuinely be ecstatic to get him I just don’t think we will.

 

[Call Me Cake]

At the moment I would say our forward line is easily the weakest point on our list. This is despite knowing that even when Wright went down, we still managed to pile on the scores in the first 16 weeks of the season, specifically that early win against the Giants where we had like 20 behinds or something.

• Wright: often pushed out of the contest, not a consistent year-to-year match winner. Was injured so will cut him some slack
• Langford: was he good because the opposition didn't know him as a forward? Showed the same stuff against Geelong though so could back it up
• Gresham: fits in the most, but as a new recruit he has to play first
• Stringer: yo-yo form and consistency unproven
• Caddy: first year, cannot expect him to carry
• Menzie: young and raw despite being our 2nd highest goal scorer last year (says a lot)
• Jones: fighting for his spot
• Perkins: fighting for form

Wright could go back to his best further removed from injury, Langers could keep up his form, Stringer may be fitter, Jones and Perkins could have a fire lit under them, Menzie may just be having a slow start and Caddy could blend in quicker than we expect.

But those are a lot of ifs, and the likelihood of it all happening isn't a surety.

So I would say we do lack that consistent key forward match winner, but also key forward stocks for the future aside from Caddy. Wright isn't a spring chicken (experienced) but doesn't strike me as someone who's meant to be the numero uno in the forward half. Gresham is pretty much our best small forward by a long shot.

So this is definitely an area we need to improve on, whether through acquisition, drafting or making who we have better/more consistent.

 

[jdstorm]

There have been as many top 5 KPF fail as there have been a success in recent years so I would argue that 5 to 15 can be just as productive. Secondly you do not actually have to have a super star KPF to win a flag. A bunch of good ones can do the job as well.
How many premiership sides have built the list early on by trading away top end draft picks ? It has been more when they have the core and are actually set for the next step.
As for 3 picks for a player being a bargain in general terms it all depends on how good the draft is and how good your recruiting team is along with what other clubs are doing.
As I have said I am not against it but it all comes down to a question we can not answer now. That question is can the blokes we are pinning our hopes on take the next step and become good players. Given that number is 10 or 12 players you can not actually say with any clarity it is a good idea.

For sure. I think we are saying mostly the same thing just in different ways. Lots of uncertainty with this list and how that affects moving forward has a lot of variables to consider right now.

Sometimes something can be both good value and prohibitively expensive and/or unnecessary.

It’s also front of mind that Essendon stuffed their current list build by trading for players who stunted the growth opportunities of their draft picks (Sheil/Caldwell when they had Parish and Merrett ) who have many of the same strengths and flaws as players.

I think there’s a lot of uncertainty with the list right now, and what team shows up over the course of the year is going to determine the course of the offseason.

 

[Call Me Cake]

It’s also front of mind that Essendon stuffed their current list build by trading for players who stunted the growth opportunities of their draft picks (Sheil/Caldwell when they had Parish and Merrett ) who have many of the same strengths and flaws as players.

Eh, probably, but we got Caldwell which was what GWS used one of the picks we traded with, and Bonar (for the other) turned out to be meh. So it sort of worked out for us anyway. Caldwell is still younger than most realize and last year had good moments where he stood up to lift the team. Saad we turned into a top 10 pick. I guess it just shows how hit and miss draft picks can be. Nevertheless it could have been way way worse.

 

[jdstorm]

Eh, probably, but we got Caldwell which was what GWS used one of the picks we traded with, and Bonar (for the other) turned out to be meh. So it sort of worked out for us anyway. Caldwell is still younger than most realize and last year had good moments where he stood up to lift the team. Saad we turned into a top 10 pick. I guess it just shows how hit and miss draft picks can be. Nevertheless it could have been way way worse.

For sure the draft is a total crapshoot.

It could have been worse.

But also with the benefit of hindsight ignoring the players picked with those pics. Those trades were bad value because they were unnecessary and spent real assets that could have improved the list creating a huge list hole.

 

[citizen-erased]

For sure. I think we are saying mostly the same thing just in different ways. Lots of uncertainty with this list and how that affects moving forward has a lot of variables to consider right now.

Sometimes something can be both good value and prohibitively expensive and/or unnecessary.

It’s also front of mind that Essendon stuffed their current list build by trading for players who stunted the growth opportunities of their draft picks (Sheil/Caldwell when they had Parish and Merrett ) who have many of the same strengths and flaws as players.

I think there’s a lot of uncertainty with the list right now, and what team shows up over the course of the year is going to determine the course of the offseason.

the problem there was we went after the shiniest toys rather than list needs.

Shiel was brought in with Parish, Merrett and McGrath on the list and in the 22 as mids
Smith similarly, plus was another smaller mid, thus making it questionable recruiting Shiel all the more.
Saad and Stringer made sense as we needed those types. and they came quite cheap.

We went a redemption arc. One last push with Heppell, Hurley, Hooker, etc on the list.
I wouldn't preclude that from another attempt to plug gaps with more sure-fire options.
Esp with better operators at the helm.

If Brad thinks we have our 8 year core, why not go after the guys who can compliment them and maximise what can be achieved in those 8 years.
If we went Jamarra (2x 1sts + 2nd) plus a decent FA (Ainsworth/English), what more could we want from 2 first rd draft picks.

 

[jdstorm]

the problem there was we went after the shiniest toys rather than list needs.

Shiel was brought in with Parish, Merrett and McGrath on the list and in the 22 as mids
Smith similarly, plus was another smaller mid, thus making it questionable recruiting Shiel all the more.
Saad and Stringer made sense as we needed those types. and they came quite cheap.

We went a redemption arc. One last push with Heppell, Hurley, Hooker, etc on the list.
I wouldn't preclude that from another attempt to plug gaps with more sure-fire options.
Esp with better operators at the helm.

If Brad thinks we have our 8 year core, why not go after the guys who can compliment them and maximise what can be achieved in those 8 years.
If we went Jamarra (2x 1sts + 2nd) plus a decent FA (Ainsworth/English), what more could we want from 2 first rd draft picks.

I don’t really have a problem with the “trade in talent” part of that rebuild. Sheil was the biggest misstep. Everyone else mostly worked out.

I think the hard part now is we don’t know who the “complimentary” players are because we don’t fully know who the core players are and where they best fit.

 

[owen87]

I think the hard part now is we don’t know who the “complimentary” players are because we don’t fully know who the core players are and where they best fit.

Essendon Bombers Football Club Player List

Essendon Bombers full AFL playing list and stats.

www.footywire.com

Sort by age.

Anyone 25 and under is the 'core' group.

Anyone under about 30 might still be around, someone like Merrett should have the scope to play good football well in to his 30s and KPPs don't get any shorter with age.

Anyone over 30 will almost certainly be gone.

I've said it before but it's not the midfield built around Parish and Merrett that'll win us a GF, it'll be the midfield built around Hobbs and Tsatas. where Parish and Merrett might still be around as elder statemen.

 

[citizen-erased]

I don’t really have a problem with the “trade in talent” part of that rebuild. Sheil was the biggest misstep. Everyone else mostly worked out.

I think the hard part now is we don’t know who the “complimentary” players are because we don’t fully know who the core players are and where they best fit.

if i hazard a guess;

Ridley - Mckay - McGrath
Redman - ?? - Martin
Durham - Setterfield - Duursma
Langford - ?? - Gresham
?? - Wright - Caddy*
Draper - Parish - Merrett
Hobbs - Caldwell - Tsatas - ?

*Early on Caddy, but some benefit of the doubt there. Looks another safe pick.
the 2020 crop are hard to predict. as it stands, it looks like Reid is CHB. Cox still an anomaly and Perkins will play HF.

Q for me is does Caddy project more as a stringer type (where i have him) v. a curnow type.
if its stringer, then i see a bit of a logjam for Perkins both now and moving fwd until Langford retires (cries inside at the thought)
if its Curnow, then the JUH conversation becomes more about replacing Wright. Jamarra + Curnow-like Caddy is premiership worthy imo.

 

[jdstorm]

Essendon Bombers Football Club Player List

Essendon Bombers full AFL playing list and stats.

www.footywire.com

Sort by age.

Anyone 25 and under is the 'core' group.

Anyone under about 30 might still be around, someone like Merrett should have the scope to play good football well in to his 30s and KPPs don't get any shorter with age.

Anyone over 30 will almost certainly be gone.

I've said it before but it's not the midfield built around Parish and Merrett that'll win us a GF, it'll be the midfield built around Hobbs and Tsatas. where Parish and Merrett might still be around as elder statemen.

Yeah nah I disagree with that.

If everything goes well they might even have a chance this year. If Reid and Cox start to live up to their draft Positions Essendon have a pretty solid backline.

Midfield they have 2 potential AA players (Merrett/Parish) then you have Setterfield, Stringer, Durham, Dursma and Tsatas who all have ability.

The forward line is the biggest question as you will need to find about 350 goals. But if Langford and Wright match their best seasons they could get about 150 between them. Gresham and Menzie another 60. 20 for Perkins and you only need 100 more goals from the rest of the team to be in striking distance.

If everything goes poorly they might be bottom 4 it’s hard to know

 

[owen87]

Yeah nah I disagree with that.

If everything goes well they might even have a chance this year. If Reid and Cox start to live up to their draft Positions Essendon have a pretty solid backline.

Midfield they have 2 potential AA players (Merrett/Parish) then you have Setterfield, Stringer, Durham, Dursma and Tsatas who all have ability.

The forward line is the biggest question as you will need to find about 350 goals. But if Langford and Wright match their best seasons they could get about 150 between them. Gresham and Menzie another 60. 20 for Perkins and you only need 100 more goals from the rest of the team to be in striking distance.

If everything goes poorly they might be bottom 4 it’s hard to know

I think with a team where the best-case scenario is 'might have a chance' but is more likely to finish bottom-four than top-four it's probably safe to safe they're a few years off yet.

 

[jdstorm]

I think with a team where the best-case scenario is 'might have a chance' but is more likely to finish bottom-four than top-four it's probably safe to safe they're a few years off yet.

I’m going to disagree with that as well (aparently I’m quite disagreeable today)

I don’t know if this group has the capacity to be elite.

What I do know is when it happens it happens fast and it only really takes 6 elite players.

I also know this team has 4 players I’d comfortably call elite.

Ridley, Merrett, Parish and Langford (with Martin knocking at the door. Size, Depth and culture have been bigger issues and all are in a better place then they were last year

 

[ant555]

the problem there was we went after the shiniest toys rather than list needs.

Shiel was brought in with Parish, Merrett and McGrath on the list and in the 22 as mids
Smith similarly, plus was another smaller mid, thus making it questionable recruiting Shiel all the more.
Saad and Stringer made sense as we needed those types. and they came quite cheap.

We went a redemption arc. One last push with Heppell, Hurley, Hooker, etc on the list.
I wouldn't preclude that from another attempt to plug gaps with more sure-fire options.
Esp with better operators at the helm.

If Brad thinks we have our 8 year core, why not go after the guys who can compliment them and maximise what can be achieved in those 8 years.
If we went Jamarra (2x 1sts + 2nd) plus a decent FA (Ainsworth/English), what more could we want from 2 first rd draft picks.

Lets no rewrite history.
Smith was a small forward who played a small amount of midfield time. He was fantastic as a small pressure forward until his knee went south again.
In 2018 our midfield was.
Z Merrett.
J Merrett.(wing)
Goddard (not actally a genuine midfielder)
Parish (at that stage 40 games mainly as a forward / midfielder)
Heppell
Myers
Mutch ( 0 games)
Colyer (wing)
D Clarke (0 games)
Mynott (0 games)
McGrath ( 21 games at half back)
Langford ( atempting to be a midfielder)
At that stage Shiel was a list need as we only had Merrett as the closet proven elite clearance player and the only reason it has not worked is simply because Shiel has had injuries. If they did not try pushing McGrath / Langford into the middle and did not then pick up Caldwell and actually picked up a bigger midfielder then there was no issue.
The fact that Hobbs fell into our lap sort of compounded things.
At the end of 2017 Hocking / Howlett / Bird / Stanton all went off the list. We did need an elite clearance player at that stage after 2018.

 

[citizen-erased]

Lets no rewrite history.
Smith was a small forward who played a small amount of midfield time. He was fantastic as a small pressure forward until his knee went south again.
In 2018 our midfield was.
Z Merrett.
J Merrett.(wing)
Goddard (not actally a genuine midfielder)
Parish (at that stage 40 games mainly as a forward / midfielder)
Heppell
Myers
Mutch ( 0 games)
Colyer (wing)
D Clarke (0 games)
Mynott (0 games)
McGrath ( 21 games at half back)
Langford ( atempting to be a midfielder)
At that stage Shiel was a list need as we only had Merrett as the closet proven elite clearance player and the only reason it has not worked is simply because Shiel has had injuries. If they did not try pushing McGrath / Langford into the middle and did not then pick up Caldwell and actually picked up a bigger midfielder then there was no issue.
The fact that Hobbs fell into our lap sort of compounded things.
At the end of 2017 Hocking / Howlett / Bird / Stanton all went off the list. We did need an elite clearance player at that stage after 2018.

Fair.

though you'd have to think the list team wouldn't have dropped pick 1 and 5 on two flankers that could play mid. I'd argue the strategy was Merrett, Parish & McGrath would be the smaller mids alongside Heppell, Myers & Langford. Which is pretty good balance.
Or we could have added a cheaper Setterfield to stop the Langford experiment and still had the balance.

I'd say the need was there if we wanted to play finals sooner.
But not so much if a patient rebuild was embraced.

In the end it didn't impact us that much. The additional 2019 pick might have been handy, but most guns went before our pick.

 

[ant555]

Fair.

though you'd have to think the list team wouldn't have dropped pick 1 and 5 on two flankers that could play mid. I'd argue the strategy was Merrett, Parish & McGrath would be the smaller mids alongside Heppell, Myers & Langford. Which is pretty good balance.
Or we could have added a cheaper Setterfield to stop the Langford experiment and still had the balance.

I'd say the need was there if we wanted to play finals sooner.
But not so much if a patient rebuild was embraced.

In the end it didn't impact us that much. The additional 2019 pick might have been handy, but most guns went before our pick.

This is Essendon you are talking about.
Parish was always a midfielder and going to end up there but we have a history of playing flankers as midfielders.
McGrath did play some good midfield in his top age year as well but he was never a dominating clearance player.
The issue is it kept on going with Hobbs and Caldwell and the bigger body blokes we got did not make it.
They could hardly not pick Hobbs and he will work out but did we need Caldwell as well ?

 

[citizen-erased]

This is Essendon you are talking about.
Parish was always a midfielder and going to end up there but we have a history of playing flankers as midfielders.
McGrath did play some good midfield in his top age year as well but he was never a dominating clearance player.
The issue is it kept on going with Hobbs and Caldwell and the bigger body blokes we got did not make it.
They could hardly not pick Hobbs and he will work out but did we need Caldwell as well ?

fair question on Caldwell....though we had him before Hobbs.
i guess he came at a cheap price. but again, we saw a shiny object and threw our hat in the ring.

those 2x 2nds ended up being largely what GWS paid for Collingwood's F1...pick 2 - Finn Callaghan.
So my criticisms still go to whether we get blinded from strategy for nice toys. With the pies tearing their list apart, their F1 should have been priority 1.

Alternatively, did we need Hobbs ahead of JVR the year after. the quality 2nd tall marking fwd just doesn't seem to be on our list teams radar.

Digressing though

I don't think a hail mary at JUH is the half measure people are calling it.
Whatever the cost pick wise, i'd pay it for a genuine gun that delivers 10 years of service, and could be half of a lethal partnership with Caddy....or if Caddy doesn't make it, is at least a main threat for us up forward still.

 

[jdstorm]

Fair.

though you'd have to think the list team wouldn't have dropped pick 1 and 5 on two flankers that could play mid. I'd argue the strategy was Merrett, Parish & McGrath would be the smaller mids alongside Heppell, Myers & Langford. Which is pretty good balance.
Or we could have added a cheaper Setterfield to stop the Langford experiment and still had the balance.

I'd say the need was there if we wanted to play finals sooner.
But not so much if a patient rebuild was embraced.

In the end it didn't impact us that much. The additional 2019 pick might have been handy, but most guns went before our pick.

if i hazard a guess;

Ridley - Mckay - McGrath
Redman - ?? - Martin
Durham - Setterfield - Duursma
Langford - ?? - Gresham
?? - Wright - Caddy*
Draper - Parish - Merrett
Hobbs - Caldwell - Tsatas - ?

*Early on Caddy, but some benefit of the doubt there. Looks another safe pick.
the 2020 crop are hard to predict. as it stands, it looks like Reid is CHB. Cox still an anomaly and Perkins will play HF.

Q for me is does Caddy project more as a stringer type (where i have him) v. a curnow type.
if its stringer, then i see a bit of a logjam for Perkins both now and moving fwd until Langford retires (cries inside at the thought)
if its Curnow, then the JUH conversation becomes more about replacing Wright. Jamarra + Curnow-like Caddy is premiership worthy imo.

Personally my current if fully healthy instincts are this

FB Ridley McKay McGrath
HB Redman Reid Caldwell

Where’s Martin you ask? Playing the Errol Gulden Wing Role that he was AA at last season. Teams play multiple smalls and Essendon has more talented small players than spots for smalls. So why play a medium in a role a small can play. Most good mids can play as a running HB and Caldwell is the best outside player of Essendon small mids (and not great at getting goals)

C Durham Merrett Martin
R Goldy/Bryan Parish Setterfield

Setterfield could be Stringer. Jakes a better player when healthy and has no place in the forward line with Langford establishing himself as an elite 3rd tall. I expect Merrett and Durham rotate CBAs with Durham starting in CB with Zach on the wing before switching with Zach inside and Durham playing as defensive wing.

HF Perkins Wright Gresham
Wright is good on a lead and has long range. Playing him close to goal takes away one of his best skills. Should help fix issues with wing marking. Having him and Goldy working hard to be targets there.

FF Langford Draper Menzie.

Draper I expect plays as a striker ruck. Takes CBA’s then sits forward as an agent of Caos ready to create a secondary pack to free up Langford who’s a natural leading forward. Menzie as goal sneak. Could see Sheil at HF and Gresham at SF think it’s unsettled

Bench
D7 Cox M1 Hobbs M2 Tsatas W/F Dursma

 

[MiguelM]

I would rather go for a Matt Rowell

18

Matt Rowell

Age

22

Ht

180cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

0.8

1star

T

5.2

5star

CL

3.8

5star

D

17.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

0.8

1star

T

5.2

5star

CL

3.8

5star

D

17.4

5star

K

7.6

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

0.8

1star

T

5.2

5star

CL

3.8

5star

or Tom Green

12

Tom Green

Age

23

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

3star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

5star

than JUH, no idea what their contracts are.

 

[ant555]

fair question on Caldwell....though we had him before Hobbs.
i guess he came at a cheap price. but again, we saw a shiny object and threw our hat in the ring.

those 2x 2nds ended up being largely what GWS paid for Collingwood's F1...pick 2 - Finn Callaghan.
So my criticisms still go to whether we get blinded from strategy for nice toys. With the pies tearing their list apart, their F1 should have been priority 1.

Alternatively, did we need Hobbs ahead of JVR the year after. the quality 2nd tall marking fwd just doesn't seem to be on our list teams radar.

Digressing though

I don't think a hail mary at JUH is the half measure people are calling it.
Whatever the cost pick wise, i'd pay it for a genuine gun that delivers 10 years of service, and could be half of a lethal partnership with Caddy....or if Caddy doesn't make it, is at least a main threat for us up forward still.

My point has always been right now it is too early to say.

 

[citizen-erased]

My point has always been right now it is too early to say.

Id take stock this year
so much for me is on reid, cox, perkins, tsatas, hobbs and caldwell. Get these guys going and I reckon we can roll the dice.

 

[Mikevk123]

We have a lot of players out of contract. We need class up forward and depth throughout the ground.

 

[citizen-erased]

We have a lot of players out of contract. We need class up forward and depth throughout the ground.

Sort of a win win list
As it stands, none are gonna command huge coin
And by year's end if they do it means they've kicked on
Good position to be in.

 

[andleanback]

Or we can play the long game. I am not against trading for JUH but my view is it is a short cut . We would be sacrificing top end picks to get him. We actually do not know if we can sit out of the top end of the draft this year. Cox and Perkins need to prove they can actually play and Reid has to prove he can stay on the field. If these things happen then yes maybe we can sacrifice a draft this year but it is a long way from happening. Lets face it people want JUH so we can start winning next year.
I do not really consider us more advanced than the Hawks. List wise we have a few more left over from a previous era but culture wise we are not in the same ball park.

We may not need jamarra at all, caddy could turn out to be just what we need. For now I think our strategy is going to be go after free agents and use our draft picks which I like.

 

[andleanback]

We have a lot of players out of contract. We need class up forward and depth throughout the ground.

Every club has a lot of players out on contract in March, it’s the way afl is, by august a lot of them are signed.

 

[citizen-erased]

We may not need jamarra at all, caddy could turn out to be just what we need. For now I think our strategy is going to be go after free agents and use our draft picks which I like.

Imagine both!
Im a little jealous carlton have two marking titans up forward....and slightly worried harry may have fixed his kicking issues

Caddy + jamarra