Play Nice AFL Womens - General Discussion

jatz14

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Good point, would have to schedule around tests. I imagine shield games wouldn't be hard to buy off given practically nobody attends them anyway.
I doubt they would be bought off. It wouldn't be the money, it would be cricket not willing for its premier domestic competition being pushed around, is summer, by womens AFL. A precedent they would not want to set.
 

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Teen Wolf

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And like I said, it's not just about working around the matches. Let's not forget Brisbane couldn't host a grand final at the Gabba in 2017 because an Ashes Test was only 8 short months away.

As for other grounds, the pitches would have to be lifted out and then dropped back in. Even if that was allowed, it does become about money because CA wouldn't be footing that expensive bill.
 

Teen Wolf

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I thought charging for entry was the way forward. Could anybody in good conscience really suggest $20+ admission prices for rundown venues with inadequate facilities in often inconvenient locations?
 

chiwigi

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I thought charging for entry was the way forward. Could anybody in good conscience really suggest $20+ admission prices for rundown venues with inadequate facilities in often inconvenient locations?
SANFL games are $14 at the same venues.
Nobody has suggested $20+, though if they did build the crowds, they could also update the facilities with the money made.
 

Teen Wolf

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SANFL games are $14 at the same venues.
Nobody has suggested $20+, though if they did build the crowds, they could also update the facilities with the money made.
Any money being spent (or to be spent) on upgrading all but a few of these small/outdated/inconvenient venues are merely short-term solutions. In terms of AFLW matches between two Melbourne teams being played at current top-level stadiums by default, it's just a question of when not if. Obviously I'm in favour of sooner rather than later, but I don't begrudge those who want to hold the league back and stunt its potential growth.
 

chiwigi

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Any money being spent (or to be spent) on upgrading all but a few of these small/outdated/inconvenient venues are merely short-term solutions. In terms of AFLW matches between two Melbourne teams being played at current top-level stadiums by default, it's just a question of when not if. Obviously I'm in favour of sooner rather than later, but I don't begrudge those who want to hold the league back and stunt its potential growth.
The sizes are perfect, the locations are in the areas where fans live so they don’t need to travel into the city etc. plenty of nostalgia to be had as well, that connect the new teams to the history of the clubs.

When Port get a team I damn well hope they play all their games at Alberton, the Crows do very well by playing at the Parade.
 

Teen Wolf

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The sizes are perfect, the locations are in the areas where fans live so they don’t need to travel into the city etc. plenty of nostalgia to be had as well, that connect the new teams to the history of the clubs.

When Port get a team I damn well hope they play all their games at Alberton, the Crows do very well by playing at the Parade.
The benefit of playing in centralised locations is already proven and nostalgia only works in small doses.

Clearly the situation is very different in SA, there isn't a Marvel Stadium to play at even if the Crows wanted to. But I should point out there were people just a few months ago arguing it's better to have a grand final in front of a packed-out suburban ground than a half-full Adelaide Oval. What a missed opportunity that would've been if the league listened to those under-estimators, what opportunities could be lost in the future? I shudder to think.
 

BringBackTorps

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Any money being spent (or to be spent) on upgrading all but a few of these small[?]/outdated[not modern, but superb surface & atmosphere!]/inconvenient [slightly]venues are merely short-term solutions. In terms of AFLW matches between two Melbourne teams being played at current top-level stadiums by default, it's just a question of when not if. Obviously I'm in favour of sooner rather than later, but I don't begrudge those who want to hold the league back and stunt its potential growth.
I will be very happy when all AFLW matches are averaging crowds of 20,000+; & they then should all be played in AFL stadia. These average crowds are unlikley to be achieved for 10-20 years (if played in AFL off-season).
VFL, SANFL, WAFL grounds provide a superb atmosphere, particularly when crowds are about 10,000. A crowd of 10,000 at Docklands, AO, or PS has virtually no atmosphere.

However, sadly, I don't believe Arden St is appropriate. There is, literally, nothing remaining from the old Arden St (grandstand & terraces gone); & no shelter from the hot sun; & most of it is completely flat (thus very poor sight lines for fans). NM/Tasmania AFLW home games should be played mainly in Tasmania, with a few at Princes Park (against Richmond, Collingwood, Essendon).
 
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Teen Wolf

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I will be very happy when all AFLW matches are averaging crowds of 20,000+; & they then should all be played in AFL stadia. These average crowds are unlikley to be achieved for 10-20 years (if played in AFL off-season).
VFL, SANFL, WAFL grounds provide a superb atmosphere, particularly when crowds are about 10,000. A crowd of 10,000 at Docklands, AO, or PS has virtually no atmosphere.
I'm not sure how 20k crowds are going to be achieved by playing mostly at venues that hold 10k at best. But I'm glad you at least acknowledge the future of AFLW involves a diversion from those venues.

Of all the important factors to focus on, atmosphere is way down on the list. Higher priorities include:
  • A weather-proof stadium like Docklands allows for a better product*
  • Playing double-headers at a venue with state-of-the-art media facilities is more efficient and enticing for broadcasters
  • An event that draws 10k at Docklands is usually only going to draw half that at, say, Victoria Park or Casey Fields^ (for a variety of reasons)
  • The mixed message of trying to build a world class league but not using world class venues when available
*see the R6 match between Melbourne and the Bulldogs at Marvel which was praised as the best game of the season, and compare it to the previous year's match between the same two teams in a tight but very scrappy pseudo-prelim spoiled by conditions typical of your Whitten Ovals
^based on other crowd figures this year, I'm making a fair estimate there

However, sadly, I don't believe Arden St is appropriate. There is, literally, nothing remaining from the old Arden St (grandstand gone); & no shelter from the hot sun; & most of it is completely flat (thus very poor sight lines for fans). NM/Tasmania AFLW home games should be played mainly in Tasmania, with a few at Princes Park (against Richmond, Collingwood, Essendon).
So you concede atmosphere is not the be-all and end-all. You'd rather bays of empty seats at Princes and York Parks than a packed out Arden Street? It actually seems like you might be more anti-suburban ground than me. I think right now they should be used for the lowest-drawing games (i.e. matches vs teams from another state), but you want to snub some altogether? By your own standards, North's spiritual home would only be one of many unsuitable venues.
 

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BringBackTorps

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Of all the important factors to focus on, atmosphere is way down on the list. Higher priorities include:
  • A weather-proof stadium like Docklands allows for a better product*[when it is raining]
  • Playing double-headers at a venue with state-of-the-art media facilities is more efficient and enticing for broadcasters[will double headers in Melbourne attract higher crowds?]
  • An event that draws 10k at Docklands is usually only going to draw half that at, say, Victoria Park or Casey Fields^ (for a variety of reasons)[more games will prove if this is correct].
  • The mixed message of trying to build a world class league but not using world class venues when available[Rows of cavernous banks of empty seats is unenticing for spectators, bad optics for TV viewers, & detracts from promoting the AFLW-"sell the sizzle, not just the sausage
I am aware that the old suburban grounds don't hold 20,000 + now (excluding Princes Park).
I was referring to the occasional AFLW games being played at AFL stadia. If these games attract averages of 20,000+, then all those clubs, occasionally playing there, should play more/or all games there.

I disagree with your views on the relative importance of atmosphere at AFLW games- & the appeal of old suburban grounds when crowds are c. 10,000. A 10,000 crowd at Docklands, AO, or PS is, from my subjective view, unappealing- but is much more exciting when played at a packed, intimate suburban venue.

I don't want any games played at flat ovals (terrible viewing for fans), with no seating, & no shade from the hot summer sun. Arden St, unfortunately, is unsuitable (unless you believe NM/Tasmania will attract crowds in Melbourne averaging less than 4000, irrespective where they play).
 
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Teen Wolf

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when it is raining
Not just rain, these smaller grounds are far more susceptible to other factors like gale-force winds which severely affect the quality of football played (hence my mention of last year's Dogs-Dees top-of-the-table clash). And then there's also lightning strikes and power outages resulting in long delays of matches, which has happened three times in three short seasons. More ammunition for nongs on twitter to snipe at the league's professionalism.

will double headers in Melbourne attract higher crowds?
Better football at better venues is what attracts higher crowds. This was already proven in the AFL 20 years ago, and it was proven again more recently with the move to new/redeveloped grounds in WA and SA. Double headers are a means for particularly Melbourne AFLW teams to enjoy these benefits in the short term.

Rows of cavernous banks of empty seats is unenticing for spectators, bad optics for TV viewers, & detracts from promoting the AFLW-"sell the sizzle, not just the sausage
You of all people should be happy with Marvel Stadium games, all spectators sat on the side opposite to the main camera which doesn't happen at any other ground. Can't conveniently abandon that crusade of yours, mate.

I am aware that the old suburban grounds don't hold 20,000 + now (excluding Princes Park).
I was referring to the occasional AFLW games being played at AFL stadia. If these games attract averages of 20,000+, then all those clubs, occasionally playing there, should play more/or all games there.
Supporting occasional AFLW games being played at AFL stadia is pretty damn close to my stance, much closer than the idea that old grounds are the future.
 
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