Society/Culture Are hierarchies bad?

[Carringbush2010]

I get paid the same as the rest of the mods without having to do as much work.

And? You still have influence right? That would make you 'not equal' - how dare you!

It's understandable, everyone should have the same value. Everyone is human.

Noble sentiment, unfortunately hierarchy some bad humans get in the way of that. (depending on ones comprehension of course)

 

[Taylor]

And? You still have influence right? That would make you 'not equal' - how dare you!

I also have influence because I'm humble, articulate and really, really, very smart.

 

[Chief]

This should not even be a question.

So why are you asking it?

 

[Carringbush2010]

I also have influence because I'm humble, articulate and really, really, very smart.

Ah yes, a good example of how hierarchy is supposed to work.

 

[Carringbush2010]

So why are you asking it?

Where have I asked this question?

 

[Chief]

Where have I asked this question?

Holy moley.

 

[Kwality]

So without a hierarchy, who would establish and enforce laws?

Wealth creates hierarchies. Should we make sure no one has more wealth than anyone else?

Make sure everyone is equal! If you're a brain surgeon, you get paid the same as a barista. Because we can't have hierarchies.

Is that how you'd like to reorder society?

Born leaders dont need structure, people look to them.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Holy moley.

View attachment 1264560

Again, link where I've asked if hierarchies are bad? I haven't, I've repeatedly answered the question ^ the above is NOT a question - it's a statement.

Being the chief admin, I would certainly hope you understand the difference.

Holey Moley indeed!

 

[Chief]

What do question marks mean?

 

[Carringbush2010]

What do question marks mean?

Are you confusing me with the op? This is not my thread creation mate.

Maybe ask the op what you're asking me.

 

[Number37]

It has become a catchcry among the woke left that hierarchies invariably become systems of entrenched injustice and unfairness. As a result, some folks suggest we'd be better off dismantling hierarchies and maybe even living in collectives where everyone is equal.

Is this practical? Or even desirable as an ideal?

What would be the alternative mechanism for ordering a society, aside from some kind of hierarchy?

How would this prized equality be maintained?

Is it perhaps the case that those calling for hierarchies to be dismantled simply want a different hierarchy established that more neatly aligns with their own ideological self-interest?

You've once again neatly summed up your own biases by once again misrepresenting the other side of the argument because I suspect you are unable to form a counter argument without doing so.

Heirarchies work because the heirarchy can be enforced or reinforced.

Democracy is a heirarchical system of govt.
All democratic systems of govt have inherent characteristics that ordinarily deal with power imbalances. Power imbalances are the root of all evil.

The most obvious inherent characteristic that deals with power imbalances is the Separation of Powers.
Your argument suggests that people want to destroy the heirarchy to further their interests and even that wasn't enough for you, you went to the next level of hyperbole to claim that destroying the heirarchy is the ONLY means by which they can further their own interests.
I would suggest to you that enforcing the heirarchy will easily achieve the desired outcome.
(1) enforcing the Separation of Powers. The Executive cannot stack the courts to further their own interests, problem solved.
(2) reinforcing the top of the heirarchy (the Constitution) with a Bill of Rights.

Those 2 things are actually what people are arguing for, not the dismantling of the heirarchy.

 

[Chief]

Are you confusing me with the op? This is not my thread creation mate.

Maybe ask the op what you're asking me.

Oh ****ing lol

I have him on ignore so it looks like you’re the OP!

Sorry I thought you were being obtuse and I was being witty AF.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Oh ******* lol

I have him on ignore so it looks like you’re the OP!

Sorry I thought you were being obtuse and I was being witty AF.

Hahahah!

No wuckers Chief! Needed a laugh, alls good in the BF hood.

In all honesty you should know me better than to ask such a question, coz it's a question with an oh so obvious answer.

 

[Malifice]

Yes they're oppressed by humans NOT hierarchy FFS.

Dude, the freaking Nazis oppressed the Jews and Romanis because of their notions of racial hierarchies.

So their belief in racial hierarchies wasnt to blame. Nazism wasnt to blame. Just people.

That's your official position?

 

[Carringbush2010]

So their belief in racial hierarchies wasnt to blame. Nazism wasnt to blame. Just people.

Finally!

 

[Malifice]

What has happened if/when those groups have found themselves in a position of influence since?

And this makes heirarchies better how exactly?

It doesnt matter who is 'at the top'. The people at 'the bottom' suffer.

I mean ****s sake mate, you're a woman. Do I need to explain to you the effects of the patriarchy on you?

Domestic violence, rape culture, sexual assaults, metoo, glass ceiling etc.

It wasnt that long ago that your gender wasnt allowed to vote, work for a fair wage or own property FFS.

 

[Malifice]

Finally!

So you literally think Nazism and notions of racist hierarchies are not bad things, or were not the cause of the holocaust?

Its just a co-incidence that Nazis and Racists tend to murder, disenfranchise and persecute minorities.

It had nothing to do with what they actually believe (that there is a hierarchy of the races, that Jews were inferior etc)?

Just sheer co-incidence?

 

[Carringbush2010]

So you literally think Nazism and notions of racist hierarchies are not bad things, or were not the cause of the holocaust?

Uhhh, umm Malifice I've never suggested I think nazism and racism are good things.

So if you don't get this epiphany you never will.

What is / was the cause of this nazism?

I'll give you a clue, it's f*n humans. NOT hierarchy, the hierarchy is / was misused - NOT the cause. This will be last reply to you on this.

 

[Malifice]

Uhhh, umm Malifice I've never suggested I think nazism and racism are good things.

No, do you agree that people buying into Nazisms central theory of the existence of a racial hierarchy, with the Germans at the top, and the Jews at the bottom, was the cause for the Holocaust?

Yes or No?

 

[Number37]

So you literally think Nazism and notions of racist hierarchies are not bad things, or were not the cause of the holocaust?

Its just a co-incidence that Nazis and Racists tend to murder, disenfranchise and persecute minorities.

It had nothing to do with what they actually believe (that there is a hierarchy of the races, that Jews were inferior etc)?

Just sheer co-incidence?

Wouldn't that racist heirarchy dictate that the Nazis were above the Jews, rendering their slaughter meaningless?
Which tends to suggest that they were trying to establish/re-establish the racist heirarchy.
ie It, the racist, heirarchy didn't yet exist.

 

[Malifice]

Wouldn't that racist heirarchy dictate that the Nazis were above the Jews, rendering their slaughter meaningless?

No because the racial hierarchy had the 'inferior' Jews, as part of a plot to undermine and destroy the 'superior' races (Germans).

To the Germans the Jews were both vermin, and also masterminds behind Communism and Capitalism, while secretly controlling the world and influencing other world leaders.

The fact remains though that in the 'hierarchy of the races' the Nazis had at the center of their doctrine, the Jews were firmly at the bottom and the Germans at the top.

The Nazis claimed to observe a strict scientific hierarchy of the human race. Hitler's view towards race and people can be found throughout Mein Kampf but more specifically in chapter 11 "Nation and Race". The standard-issue propaganda text issued to members of the Hitler Youth contained a chapter on "the race of the German people" that heavily cited the works of Hans F. K. Günther. The text seems to address the European races in descending orders on the Nazi hierarchy, with the Nordic race (plus the subrace of Phalic) first, the Western (Mediterranean) race second, Dinarics third, Eastern (Alpine) people fourth, and finally East Baltics last.

Jews, Roma and Slavs (including Poles, Serbs and Russians) were not considered Aryans by Nazi Germany. Instead, they were considered subhuman and inferior races.

Nazi racial theories - Wikipedia

 

[Number37]

No because the racial hierarchy had the 'inferior' Jews, as part of a plot to undermine and destroy the 'superior' races (Germans).

To the Germans the Jews were both vermin, and also masterminds behind Communism and Capitalism, while secretly controlling the world and influencing other world leaders.

The fact remains though that in the 'hierarchy of the races' the Nazis had at the center of their doctrine, the Jews were firmly at the bottom and the Germans at the top.



Nazi racial theories - Wikipedia

Heirarchies dictate that you don't need to destroy those below you, because you already hold ultimate power over them.

What you have described is that the Jews were both below and equal to the Nazis, at the same time.
Which is the entire problem with Nazi theory.
Nazis weren't the first, and won't be the last, to try to enforce their version of a 'racial heirarchy'.
I am suggesting that those that try to enforce their version of a racial heirarchy are actually admitting/recognising that they are on the same level as those they are trying to condemn to a level below.

 

[Taylor]

And this makes heirarchies better how exactly?

It doesnt matter who is 'at the top'. The people at 'the bottom' suffer.

I mean fu**s sake mate, you're a woman. Do I need to explain to you the effects of the patriarchy on you?

Domestic violence, rape culture, sexual assaults, metoo, glass ceiling etc.

It wasnt that long ago that your gender wasnt allowed to vote, work for a fair wage or own property FFS.

It's an example of people abusing the power, not the system.

We wouldn't be sending any random 11 out to play cricket for Australia.

 

[Gethelred]

It's an example of people abusing the power, not the system.

We wouldn't be sending any random 11 out to play cricket for Australia.

I don't know about that. The last few teams have made me suspect something's up.

 

[Pie eyed]

Born leaders dont need structure, people look to them.

Please post a list.
Most of the historical "born" leaders where murdering sociopaths.
Surely you cannot expect anyone here to believe that any of our last 5 PM's were born leaders.