Autopsy/Ranting thread keep it all in here.

[CarltonFan]

Bower is such a good defender that once Laider got injured he was still played in the forward line..... gee Gav Brown must rate him lol

coaches and mc need to take as much responsibilty for the careless way we approached this game as the players. mclean as sub ffs mclean picked

why did our defence not make a switch at quarter time to sit deeper instead of continually pushing up? terrible coaching.

 

[Veggie]

Was at the game and 5 minutes in you could just see that the boys were just going, played like a team that was very pleased with their efforts thus far. A few guys had crack but overall the team was down.
As much as i hate them have to give a lot of credit to the bombers they played out of the skin. I dont know if anyone else noticed, but the spread from stoppages was unbelievable and we didnt know how to combat it.

JB said to Murph after the game "sometimes you need to be put on your @ss" to which Murph responded "we are looking forward to Freo next week"
So i think that is the wake up call they needed and i expect them to come out a different team against the dockers, with our record over their we will bounce back me thinks!!

 

[Big Sim]

Left it til today to comment cos it was a bit raw for me on the weekend and all the ranting I wanted to do was done by others anyway. I picked us by 10 goals and was 100% sure we would win for the first time this season: perhaps the players felt the same way and got bitten on the bum just as I did. For me the most disappointing aspect was that we were challenged for the first time this year and pretty much rolled onto our backs without so much as a yelp.

It was a horrible and dishonourable loss to be sure but to put a positive spin on it I think we learned more from that than if it had been close and honourable. We gave them an inch and they took a mile and that's what happens if you are even remotely half-arsed in today's footy. Let the opposition take the initiative so empahtically and it is really hard to win it back, and if we want to be successful in finals we can't let it happen like that.

Friday night is a tough assignment and that's what makes it the perfect chance for redemption and to show that Saturday's debacle was a abberation.

 

[pepalenko]

Left it til today to comment cos it was a bit raw for me on the weekend and all the ranting I wanted to do was done by others anyway. I picked us by 10 goals and was 100% sure we would win for the first time this season: perhaps the players felt the same way and got bitten on the bum just as I did. For me the most disappointing aspect was that we were challenged for the first time this year and pretty much rolled onto our backs without so much as a yelp.

It was a horrible and dishonourable loss to be sure but to put a positive spin on it I think we learned more from that than if it had been close and honourable. We gave them an inch and they took a mile and that's what happens if you are even remotely half-arsed in today's footy. Let the opposition take the initiative so empahtically and it is really hard to win it back, and if we want to be successful in finals we can't let it happen like that.

Friday night is a tough assignment and that's what makes it the perfect chance for redemption and to show that Saturday's debacle was a abberation.

Agree. I think i'm going to make myself wait a day or two after a loss before posting. The fact is we want to finish top four and we are currently fourth. Poetically, it is only round 4 and the most important thing is that we learn from this. Doesn't hurt any less but we should still be in good shape after the next few rounds.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Marc Murphy asked about the loss to Essendon: "We're looking forward to playing them next time"

Oh now it makes sense, they weren't looking forward to playing them on Saturday. That's why they lost

Next time they should let us know whether they are or aren't looking forward to playing for their club.

Stuff like that shits me, if you're going to parade around the idea of improving on last year and being top 4 then they should be looking forward to playing every single week.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Oh now it makes sense, they weren't looking forward to playing them on Saturday. That's why they lost

Next time they should let us know whether they are or aren't looking forward to playing for their club.

Stuff like that shits me, if you're going to parade around the idea of improving on last year and being top 4 then they should be looking forward to playing every single week.

Exactly right Tanks, Whats it gonna take to make some of these guys mature and have the hunger required to win GF's???

Maybe another hurtful summer after losing another interstate final because you finished 5th again and didn't take care of the games you should have during the year.....

 

[Stamos]

Third year in a row that we've put in a pathetic effort in our first game against the Scum (Round 3 or 4). What is wrong with us? We put in a decent effort later in the year and we beat them by 12 goals. I am ****ing sick of it.

 

[TruBlue]

We will never win a Premiership while;

Players go for the the ball one handed when they can clearly use two.
Use the ouside of your foot to kick when there's no need.
Use their opposite foot to kick goals, again when there's no need to.
Trying to look good instead of getting the job done.

I'm tired of seeing;
Players getting ahead of themselves - Every time we go into games with massive write ups on our Mids and Fwd's we play like we've already won.

Our team has a "Show Off" mentallity until it's completely out of our game we will only be a good side, not a Premiership side.

 

[Aphrodite]

Marc Murphy asked about the loss to Essendon: "We're looking forward to playing them next time"

Oh now it makes sense, they weren't looking forward to playing them on Saturday. That's why they lost

Next time they should let us know whether they are or aren't looking forward to playing for their club.

Stuff like that shits me, if you're going to parade around the idea of improving on last year and being top 4 then they should be looking forward to playing every single week.

Exactly right Tanks, Whats it gonna take to make some of these guys mature and have the hunger required to win GF's???

Maybe another hurtful summer after losing another interstate final because you finished 5th again and didn't take care of the games you should have during the year.....

Not how it was asked guys and it has been taken out of context.

Murph was asked yesterday on CH7's Game day about the tackle on Carrazzo and he said " I'm looking forward to playing Essendon next time".

He was also asked about the $900 fine and his reply was "best $900 I have ever spent".

 

[Peete]

OK - I have clmed down now...and watched the game a third time.

1. I hate giving Bomber fans and their coaching staff and their players ANY satisfaction - the loss hurt and teh way we lost even more so.

Mitigating coircumstances:

1. Fact: Carrazzo loss was massive negative - forced McLean on and total restructure of midfield. McLean was thre to get a thank you run later in the game - he doesn't fit in teh top 22 - for all sorts of reasons.

2. Laidler did his knee again in the first minute - played on one leg for the reaminder of the fame and had to be played all over the place - now defensive structures compromised

3. Jamison not yet match fit and neither was Duigan - both 'rotated' forward during match - forced in order to manage some form of rotations.

Defense totally compromised - which sees even more presure on Bower who at best is a passenger.

Curnow rolls ankle and Yarron gets some injury - defence totally dismantled.

4. Break down of structures in midfield and defense saw mounting and cumulative pressure when ball in hand - players were tirted and had no rotation rest time. You get errors all over the place - see Mitch Robinson panicked kicks to no one on too many occasisons

Coaching staff had no structures and no players able to stiffen them up.

Might sound lame and might sound like excuses - but seriously - we were playing with no bench for the whole match.

Even with all this pressure - we could have done better IF we kicked goals when we had the opportunity. key misses by Waite in 2nd and 3rd quarters along with Simpson - cost any chance of changing momentum.

Bottom line when your overall structures are gone - every bounce seems to go the way of teh opposition.

Lessons

We are too light in defence - need one more bigger body who can kick long and to advantage - Bower is a dud under any pressure - he runs siiideways and backwards to no where and then coughs ball up.

McLean is never going to be anything more than a Melbourne reject - if we want sub par peformance - at least brring on a young player with potential that can develop. Mclean is no Ellard in the middle or Armfield.

Injury toll is potentially scary.

Set ups

We need to settle on a defensive structure and invest in it.

We need a balance of hard players and play makers in the middle. We lost the game because we let Stanton and Watson run riot. Made all the rest of their players look much better than they really are.

I havent lost all belief .

 

[redkettle]

hard to believe we got done by a side that struggled against GC the week before...simple!....they wanted to be 4 zip more than we did..so we've got work to do on that one thing that can't be taught...ATTITUDE.....

 

[Lukesta63]

Will we EVER learn?

Why does it seem like we are the only team that gets ahead of itself?
Surely the majority of posters on BF remember the darkest days at the start of this century?
How many times in my 50 years of following Carlton have we been rolled by the 'underdog' opposition?
Because we apparently go into these games believing all the media bs;Believing all the idiot supporters who ring up SEN and crap on how good we are after 3 rounds!
The sad fact is I havent heard one Essendon dikchead ring talkback radio since Sat. and crap on how thyre flag favourites and a top 4 certainty!

You can abuse me all you like ,but I blame the morons amongst us who still subscribe to the bs Carlton 'arrogance' and 'swagger' of the 70's and 80's!

Guess what ...we're not that Carlton anymore!!

P.S Try being a Carlton supporter living in the middle of Essendon ,and whos kids school backs onto Windy Hill ffs!!! Its a full time job getting him to stay with the Blues!!

 

[Azul]

We are too light in defence - need one more bigger body who can kick long and to advantage

Watson.

195cm, 99kg, can roost the ball 60m.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Not how it was asked guys and it has been taken out of context.

Murph was asked yesterday on CH7's Game day about the tackle on Carrazzo and he said " I'm looking forward to playing Essendon next time".

He was also asked about the $900 fine and his reply was "best $900 I have ever spent".

Yep no probs and understand that, whats disappointing is that we could of done something about that tackle at the time it happened.

 

[pepalenko]

Watson.

195cm, 99kg, can roost the ball 60m.

I like it. I can't see it being any worse than having Bower there at the moment.

 

[I bleed Blue]

I like it. I can't see it being any worse than having Bower there at the moment.

Agree. Bower has had his chances and Watson is the future. Would rather get games into Watson at this stage. I beleive as the thrid tall he would be able to learn alot from Jamo and Hendo and perform his roll just as well, if not even better than Bower.

 

[Big Sim]

Yep no probs and understand that, whats disappointing is that we could of done something about that tackle at the time it happened.

If you look at the tape when Carrots got flattened, free kick was blown and somebody took the advantage so the game moved on straight away, all attention diverted. So lack of remonstration was due to that more than any lack of spirit I think. I give out boys more credit than that.

Watch Lonnergan cop it next time because he will.

Regarding Lonnergans actions: the commentators that are calling it a "tackle" are way off. He pushed him in the back so hard that he broke Carrots's shoulder blade and for all intents and purposes it was off the ball. A dirty thuggish act, not a tackle at all.

 

[thylacine60]

Re: Will we EVER learn?

Why does it seem like we are the only team that gets ahead of itself?
Surely the majority of posters on BF remember the darkest days at the start of this century?
How many times in my 50 years of following Carlton have we been rolled by the 'underdog' opposition?
Because we apparently go into these games believing all the media bs;Believing all the idiot supporters who ring up SEN and crap on how good we are after 3 rounds!
The sad fact is I havent heard one Essendon dikchead ring talkback radio since Sat. and crap on how thyre flag favourites and a top 4 certainty!

You can abuse me all you like ,but I blame the morons amongst us who still subscribe to the bs Carlton 'arrogance' and 'swagger' of the 70's and 80's!

Guess what ...we're not that Carlton anymore!!

P.S Try being a Carlton supporter living in the middle of Essendon ,and whos kids school backs onto Windy Hill ffs!!! Its a full time job getting him to stay with the Blues!!

Great post, Lukesta. You're certainly sitting amongst the opposition cheer squad where you live. As for the bolded bit, I don't think they call because they don't think they are. Rightly or wrongly, we do.

 

[parrot]

Injury-intending tackle techniques are a legal minefield for the AFL. And for this reason I highly doubt they'll publicly criticise what happened and instead try to sweep it under the carpet, because if they did the lawyers would be involved. So what will be Essendon's "tactics" next time? Kicking the knee's of our mids perhaps? They'll do whatever it takes down at Bomberland. And we all remember what happened in Matty Lloyd's last game. Same motive, same outcome. They have a history.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

If you look at the tape when Carrots got flattened, free kick was blown and somebody took the advantage so the game moved on straight away, all attention diverted. So lack of remonstration was due to that more than any lack of spirit I think. I give out boys more credit than that.

Watch Lonnergan cop it next time because he will.

Regarding Lonnergans actions: the commentators that are calling it a "tackle" are way off. He pushed him in the back so hard that he broke Carrots's shoulder blade and for all intents and purposes it was off the ball. A dirty thuggish act, not a tackle at all.

it was off the ball? Que??

 

[Peete]

Watson.

195cm, 99kg, can roost the ball 60m.

I haven't seen him play much - but what I have seen of him suggests to me that he has the size and the kick. Saw him put under enormous pressure in a game lasty year and he mucked up a couple of kick ins. I also saw him kcik a coupelof beautiful 60 meter passes pin point and hard. At the time I thought why is this young bloke being made responsible for the kick in to no target ( Kreuz and Hampson werent playing)- at a time when we were struggling to find a way out of our 50.

I'd be interested to find out more about what he is doing and why he isnt being given some game time.

The other player that definately IS a potential first choice is Russell. He has all the athleticism and size to be a key player for us- what is the problem here?

I can remember Walker being up for trade a couple of years ago- and a positional change sees him as one of our best and most valuable now.

One thing I note is in looking at our palyer list - we have a LOT of relatively small bodied palyers - and the larger bodies amongst them - dont ever rate a mention. Watched Casboult play a few times last year -and thought hey - this guy could be a star for us. Rowe - how long before he acctually gets a go?

Essendon looked bigger than us - everywhere the other day. Check out the Sydney team these days ( definately flying under the radar -) all their players a re big and fast - they have rebuilt beautifully.

Waite apart we have no natural larger bodied aggressive players - Hampson has to learn that AFL is a contact sport and elite players like it that way. Thats why Waite would always be first pick in my team - he likes crashing into opposiiton players and heis blocks mean something. Onepositive thing I saw him do was crash an Essendon player off the ball to make space for one of our goals. Dont see enough of this.

We need some natural hardness and size to compliment speed. It is the missing link for us. Woudl ove to see Gibbs given some rotation time in teh middle- I dont think he is as soft as many say - but his floating role doesn't give him much opportunity.

 

[Jaguar]

I guess its the players in field who do the battle but at another angle is I think its the coaching staff duties or skill to tune the players to play footy on the day and NOT let an excuse of "caught napping" happen. Psych up or rev up...or even a big blast to stimulate awaken their complacent approach. If the players play weak footy I as coach will take the blame cos I know they can better but didnt.

 

[thylacine60]

Inside the context of coaching accountability, you would be struggling to name one who hadn't at some stage been able to have his team psychologically cherry ripe for games. Ratts is still learning as a coach, we know it all already as supporters.

 

[Silvagnis]

I haven't seen him play much - but what I have seen of him suggests to me that he has the size and the kick. Saw him put under enormous pressure in a game lasty year and he mucked up a couple of kick ins. I also saw him kcik a coupelof beautiful 60 meter passes pin point and hard. At the time I thought why is this young bloke being made responsible for the kick in to no target ( Kreuz and Hampson werent playing)- at a time when we were struggling to find a way out of our 50.

I'd be interested to find out more about what he is doing and why he isnt being given some game time.

The other player that definately IS a potential first choice is Russell. He has all the athleticism and size to be a key player for us- what is the problem here?

I can remember Walker being up for trade a couple of years ago- and a positional change sees him as one of our best and most valuable now.

One thing I note is in looking at our palyer list - we have a LOT of relatively small bodied palyers - and the larger bodies amongst them - dont ever rate a mention. Watched Casboult play a few times last year -and thought hey - this guy could be a star for us. Rowe - how long before he acctually gets a go?

Essendon looked bigger than us - everywhere the other day. Check out the Sydney team these days ( definately flying under the radar -) all their players a re big and fast - they have rebuilt beautifully.

Waite apart we have no natural larger bodied aggressive players - Hampson has to learn that AFL is a contact sport and elite players like it that way. Thats why Waite would always be first pick in my team - he likes crashing into opposiiton players and heis blocks mean something. Onepositive thing I saw him do was crash an Essendon player off the ball to make space for one of our goals. Dont see enough of this.

We need some natural hardness and size to compliment speed. It is the missing link for us. Woudl ove to see Gibbs given some rotation time in teh middle- I dont think he is as soft as many say - but his floating role doesn't give him much opportunity.

It's the same side that beat Collingwood.

The difference was we lacked intent and were second to the ball against Essendon.

Waite pushes the envelope with his attack on the ball getting him in trouble far too often. Kreuzer is a player who goes in hard and bowls players over by body lining the ball. That was missing this week.

 

[Peete]

It's the same side that beat Collingwood.

The difference was we lacked intent and were second to the ball against Essendon.

Waite pushes the envelope with his attack on the ball getting him in trouble far too often. Kreuzer is a player who goes in hard and bowls players over by body lining the ball. That was missing this week.

I dont think that it was the same side - and here is why.

1. Carrazzo was out early and Laidler was on one leg for the whole match - followed by Curnow and then Yarron.

This meant that we (effectively had no real rotation capability for much of the match)

2. MacLean had to come in and take on teh job of stopping/tagging and winning hard ball over Watson/Stanton ( Curnow injured remeber)

3. So our strucures were under pressure.

thisis why the acid test came about. and this si why teh step up ability of players meant so much - Bower and McLean played to their ability thats all I am saying.

Our ruckmen did NOT have the upper hand / either nullified by Essendon having more numbers at teh bounce AND/OR just outplayed.

All thsi combined to totally change the team ability to play as a structured unit.

Against Freo- (hopefully) we will have a full bench and proper rotation capability - (hopefully) back to the game plan.

If Bower and McLean play - they will eb weak links ( again) doesnt mean we cant win - but thats the other 16 players on field making up for them - carrying them.

Waite? Sure he has goten into troubekl inteh past - if we had three or four players as good as him in his size and speed and hardness- we woudl be lay down the best team in teh competition.

Sorry thats what I see and think based on performances.